Germany: The European Center for Gothic Crime

http://www.nytimes.com

LETTER FROM EUROPE

Crimes Most Outlandish, but Why in Germany?

By RICHARD BERNSTEIN

Published: February 11, 2004

BERLIN, Feb. 8 — The worst by far would seem to have been the Internet cannibal, though the beating and murder of a three-year old child whose father intended to crucify her, the videotaped torture of a high school student, the bludgeoning to death of a youth because he was wearing clothes that, his murderers felt, made him look like a Jew — these incidents too have lately made Germany appear to be a sort of European center for gothic crime, or at least a place of concentrated tabloid sensationalism.

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i suppose when you add up all the headlines recently it looks a bit scary alright...

discuss as you see fit...

it's genetic

ya mean that in the deterministic sense?

It's a round spherical object combined with smoked salmon with an a for o substitution !

completely incomprehensible? I agree.

Like a broken pencil.

Nah - I didn't mean that at all !!

Round Spherical object = ball
Smoked Salmon = lox

then substitute the a for an o = bolllox !!!

Perhaps it's just some people's opinion and not others.

It's an interesting and well written article and the things mentioned are pretty shocking. However, what the article lacks is a bit of perspective: I don't think a few incidents makes for an epidemic or indeed indicates that there is something rotten in the state of Germany. And the suggestion that Germany is somehow to blame for the misbehaviour of it's immigrant population IS complete bollox.

Sorry but I think there is something definitely wrong with the German youth of today... if you go Ireland , young kids regularly play-fight and jostle. In Germany there is such repression of in particular the young males it's amazing , the dudes I work with are so quiet its unreal , I reckon I'd be a raving loony if I was brought up here.
IN the last 6 years of being in Germany , I've NEVER had one argument with a German guy ,they are so passive, I've had COUNTLESS arguments with German women , it's cool that they are opinionated but they are to such an extent. I dumped my German gf today cos I couldnt take her "you stay there and let me walk over you attitude for another second". Dumbass.

I wouldn't exactly say that means there's something wrong with the German youth and use Ireland as an example. Any night of the week in any town in Ireland those same kids have grown up and are falling out of pubs and knocking 13 shades of shite out of each other. That doesn't happen here. I know where I'd prefer to bring up my kids.

Also I don't agree with your generalisation of German woman. I live with one and I know dozens more. The women here are no more opinionated and/or demanding than anywhere else in my view.

Hear Hear keydeck..
I find that the german women are grand... but I do have to agree with Parnell
re. the german males. They are pretty passive... but also very cold I reckon.

That's why us Auslanders seem to do "well" in Germany in the 'woman getting'
area... as we have time for our ladies, and lavish attention on them that our home
ladies would expect as a matter of course, but here it's an added value bonus!

All I need now is the Chin wag of Quagmire, from Family Guy. "Ohhh-yeah!"

They've all been psychologically emasculated for the sake of world security.

nothing a good old fashioned european back-hander wouldn't have solved

Go to Hamburg or some parts of Berlin , I'm not talkin about hammering the crap out of each other (which I disagree with you does not happen in Ireland - look at the broo haa over the one incident now in Ireland outside Annabel's) , I'm talkin about the usual rough and tumble ud see on a rugby /GAA pitch or even in secondary school. Let me back that up by saying I bounced in Athlone for over a year.

We'll have to agree to disagree on that one. Up until 1998 I lived the everyday violence in Dublin myself and since then I don't see how anything has changed for the better. In fact based on what people have told me, and my all too infrequent trips home, it seems to have gotten worse. The incidents of assault in the city have risen sharply. Perhaps from your experiences bouncing in Athlone you've seen different, I can only comment on the capital.


Ya don't get a lot of "broo haa" these days Seriously though, in fairness we're not talking about a couple of people getting black eyes and a few bruises there. The guy was kicked to death! Dead, over, murdered.

I realise that you were originally referring to the general rough and tumble play fighting that we all had in school and on the playing field, I'm just saying that it's just possible that it also told us as we grew up that it's normal to solve problems with your fists. I'm not saying that every Irishman has a serious violent streak just waiting to be unleased, but that the propensity is much higher than in the average German.

It's sooo funny how u guys talk about german women...
Are we really that bad??? probably we are...

German men are not cold. They might be not very passionate and emotional on the first look but they didn't deserve their bad reputation. At least not all of them.
At least u can rely on them, they will take care and give u a strong and reliable basis. It depends on u what u prefer...
I guess foreigners are doing well in any country... no matter where u go.
Going back to Ireland (thank God this time u have chosen the example):
Irish men are often (I know not all of them but I'd say the majority) emotional. Fine, but then they need somebody to take care of, first it's mommy and girlfriend and then wife. Speaking of own experience emotional often is headless and then ur running the risk of ruining the relation ship. Sometimes it is just too exhausting taking care of our beloved. If we want somebody to play, to cuddle and to take care of, we get children or a dog.
Is there an emotional, passionate man with head screwed on properly out there??? Just out of interest...

I agree totally that there is something wrong with the youth, regarding violence and misbehaviour. It is not the fault of the youth but more the parents fault.
Education and manners should come out of family and parents. It is not the teachers task to make good people out of them, teachers should be totally concentrating on teaching. I know a lot of teachers are crap, everyone knows that back from school days. But I think u can't blame a teacher.
I also had very good teachers and I still have a chat on the street when I see them on the street back home. I admire anybody who is still willing to teach school kids in lower schools in a big city. Fair play. That takes a lot of motivation and courage!!!

The worst thing, (I don't believe it's only a German thing) is that ppl look away.
nobody dares to interfere in a fight etc. I think that is very frightening.
In my opinion even the slightest sign of violence /eg throwing stones after the ducks in the pond) should be acknowledged and taken serious.

Well I will agree with you that there's an altogether worse scumbag to be found in Dublin (maybe Limerick) than anywhere else - mostly as a result of the heroin trade and our tolerance I believe.


Keydeck this is an everyday occurrence in Hamburg and Glasgow , open your eyes man. I remember when I lived in Glasgow back in 96 , there was 16 stabbings the weekend of an old firm fixture.


Once again we'll have to disagree there , I think the propensity is just as high in other nationalities (many would say higher - but i disagree with the pastime of making Germans feel guilty about theit past) , it's just more supressed (amongst the menfolk) here.

Hi babe , that is absolutely spot on : in Dublin I lived (in Blackrock college) with 200 international students - of those about 40 were German , roughly half women , half men , of those , EVERY SINGLE girl cheated on her long time boyfriend back home , not one of the German guys did. My long time ex German gf useta say that she felt there was something really wrong with German guys , they just take a kicking and come back for more, I've seen this time and time again.

So so true... sob

Woof!

Agreed on the last point but I do get involved , if i see a person beating their kid I will (and have) get involved.


Well violence against animals is always wrong but I think kids jostling , play fighting with each other is normal and natural (I'm talkin about kids less than 10) , not full blooded fists , just wrestling and stuff. All other mammals do it.

what, you mean he should have tried bribing her?