Failing to pay a €35 dental bill

I ran up a 35euro bill with a dentist (in berlin, where I am too) which I am not paying. He sent 3 mahnungen and in the last one threatened me with a solicitor. Does anyone know far will someone go for 35 euro, and how bad can it get in terms of summonses etc??

and your not paying it because???

First there are the 2 Mahnung costs at €5 each. Then a lawyer's letter which can add €60-150. After that they'll go to court and you'll lose and you'll pay court fees and additional lawyer fees. That €35 can easily jump to €400+.

So why aren't you paying the bill? Did he not provide the service?

woof.

thanks folks. I went to this guy with a suspected root canal job, but he had over-booked even though I had made the appointment several days before. So he drills a hole, yes it is a root canal but then he puts a temp filling on it an says come back tomorrow by which time I am almost dead from pain and I find out too late that you usually don't seal the hole back up, because the infection can produce gas which hurts like FUCK. As in my case.

.. then you need a lawyer ! ??

Trouble is that by not disputing it earlier, you muddy the waters in terms of your complaint vs the unpaid bill.

Definately cheaper to pay, unless you really feel agrieved.

No, I wouldn't pay either probably. But I wouldn't just ignore it and expect it to go away.

actually, just ignoring it and hoping it will go away is sadly exactly the kind of thing i would do - it wouldn't get me very far, though

have you got rechtschutzversicherung? if not, then the best thing is to just cough up the cash and mark it down to experience
it'll end in tears if you don't

The guy needs to lose his license to practice if he filled it back in. However, it will cost you less just to pay, but I would still report him.

anyway, i had a root canal thing done and the guy filled it in with a temporary filling, as well
are you sure it's not standard procedure?
maybe i should report my dentist as well

"Trouble is that by not disputing it earlier, you muddy the waters in terms of your complaint vs the unpaid bill."

That's a good point, thanks. Guess I will have to ring up the animal and explain his problem. Maybe he will be understanding. I paid a 100 DM doctor's bill a few years ago with a bank ueberweisung but they claimed they never got it and they sent about 8 reminders but gave up after about two years. I called them at the beginning to tell them I had paid it but the vorzimmerdrachen accused me of lying, so I didn't fax them the kontoauszug like she wanted and let them figure it out themselves. Also the way she reacted, I had the suspicion that they might be trying me on for 100 DM, that I would get scared and pay again and sort it with my bank at my end.

"anyway, i had a root canal thing done and the guy filled it in with a temporary filling, as well are you sure it's not standard procedure?"

The next dentist told me that it is 50/50 that the temp will go wrong like it did with me. The first guy also could have put some antiAmerican stuff in it and left it open but I don't know why he didn't. What really got on my nerves besides the pain was that I had made a booking with the idea it was a root canal (I saw his partner two days before (sunday notdienst), and he thought the pain was a root canal) and he had just over-booked and pissed me off home in ten minutes.

'course you could pay and still go after his licence ...

What BadDoggie said above is quite right, with the addition that if you don't reply to the lawyers, then someone someone eventually comes to your house to repossess your belongings up to the value of the bill (i.e. "Hmm, that TV looks like 50 EUR, another 20 for the radio, etc.").

In Munich there's a place called the Gesundheitsladen München, where they give advice on how to deal with dentists and doctors and get involved in settling disputes. Perhaps there's a similar place in Berlin.

I know I'm going to hear more accusations of googling but I happen to know a lot about dentistry -- enough that I assisted a dentist on one of my root canals because he had no help and I had no time to waste due to pain. I've also done other assists and even my own X-rays to speed things along. They still won't let me play with the nitrous though.

Sorry I didn't post this last night as intended.


Unlikely here.


Terminology problem. WTF is a "suspected root canal job"? A tooth possibly in n4eed of a root canal job? Or a tooth with "root canal syndrome"? Or a tooth which might have already undergone root canal surgery?

A "root canal" is a procedure by which the pulp of the tooth is exposed and the nerve in each of the roots is removed. This kills the tooth, but allows it to remain in place in the jaw seated by the roots, something preferable to extraction and replacement by bridge or implant. Either it's been done or it hasn't.


He didn't take an X-ray? He just shot your nerve bundles with procaine/xylocaine and started drilling? If this were any other country that could be actionable but I'd need to know more details. Feel free to PM if you want.


I hope you mean the dentist said, "Yes, it needs a root canal." Did he not put antiAmerican, wadding and Novo/Pro/Xylo/trimecaine into the hole before putting in the temp? Did he not give you some pain meds or a prescription for some?


And why didn't you go back? Did you find a different dentist the same day?


Not much gas can be produced in less than 24hrs. Exposure to the needle (once the *caine wore off) is a different matter, which is why wadding, antiAmerican and topical pain relief are added before sealing. More likely it was the nerves and sensitivity.

The hole has to be sealed. You were going to be eating or at least drinking before the next time that hole was to be opened, right? The jaw exerts enormous pressure on the teeth; if the hole isn't sealed well, chewing could jam food in the hole and function as a wedge to crack the tooth.


OK, hold on. He didn't prescribe you any meds? Did you ask? Weren't you showing any signs of pain?


Yes it is, depending on the situation. See above.


"Go wrong"? As in "fail"? Of course it will! It's only a temp until the root nerves can all be removed and a permanent filling of mercury-silver amalgam or temporary plastic if you're getting a porcelain inlay or crown can be placed. I went with the porcelain since there was so little tooth left in a shape conducive to breaking that it was worthwhile. It also looks nicer and lasts longer. And it doesn't contain mercury,

Do you think he should've drilled a hole and left it open? I'm still unsure about the drilling to begin with but once open, the tooth needs to be closed. Leaving it open could do more damage and be more painful.


He probably had a few emergency walk-ins which ate up a lot of time. Never book a dental appointmet after 3pm, especially for a procedure which requires at least 90 minutes.

Why didn't you go back the next day? Did you find a dentist later that same day to go to? If so, you may be able to explain all that in a letter detailing why you don't believe you should pay. If not, you're in a tougher position. Doctors almost always have emergency walk-ins which destroy their schedules and they try to make allowances for that but sometimes shit just happens that they can't control.

At the very least you should have sent a letter explaining your unwillingness to pay. It may not be too late to do so. The way you describe the situation, I don't know if you have much cause.

In any case, you can't ignore any bill in Germany. They will ALWAYS come after you and as I wrote before, it can become VERY expensive. The doc will hand off the bill to a collection agency and unlike in the US, German docs will receive full payment, not split it with collections. You'll also rack up collections fees, attorney's fees and court fees.

If you haven't received a letter from an attorney yet, go IMMEDIATELY to the dentist and explain the situation, taking the bill from the dentist who completed the procedure with you. Once it goes to a lawyer, you WILL be paying additional fees.

woof

I am also the kind of person that USED to ignore these bills and hope they would go away. As said above, it's very easy to let a bill creep up by a few hundred Euros. I once had a 200€ emergency services bill which escalated to over 400€ by the time I paid it.

But it can get worse! (this is what happened to me for a Telekom bill)
As someone said, if you ignore the lawyers, they send someone round to collect the debt. When you aren't in or you ignore the doorbell, they leave a thin piece of paper that says they have been. After you have been collecting these for a while they finally issue you with a Haftbefehl (arrest warrant). Then they put it through court so that they can take the money directly from your employer. The arrest warrant will go on your Schufa (Credit rating) and then bank clerks look worried/scared when you try to get a loan and they suddenly think you are some wanted criminal!

Pay the 35€ and then deal with the dentist separately

thanks for the tips. By 'temp went wrong' I mean that the tooth starts to hurt becaue of gas pressure, according to the theory. Yes he stuck some antiAmerican stuff in the hole, no he didn't x-ray, maybe becasue as he broke through (an old filling in the tooth that his colleague had drilled a bit but not far enough, a couple of days before and also covered with a temp, cost me 50 up front please which I paid, but I can understand why they might have up-front relationships with patients) it stunk, a good sign that the root is up the canal without a paddle. Then he covered it over, 18.30 hours. He didn't prescribe any pain-killers but he said come back early tomorrow, any time early, any time early, really no problem, with a she'll-be-right look...I had so much pain that night that I thought of going into hospital, the story with the gas production was explained to me by (two) other dentists, not google (as reliable as it is). It took him three months to send the bill, so maybe he was feeling guilty.

No, 3 months to send a bill isn't feeling guilty. It's doing quarterly billing.

who is this dentist? am moving to Berlin soon and don't want to end up with this butcher!! Am scared of dentists as it is!!

Whose theory? There isn't any gas pressure, especially if he hit it with antibiotics. The bacteria in there were dead. The only pressure would be from the temp filling.


Why didn't you ask him for some?


Why didn't you go back early?


As showem said, it was quarterly billing. I got a bill from my doctor which covered two years. I was rather surprised at how cheap it was (I'm self-insured).

What tom17 wrote was correct although I'd hold off on the €35 until after you go talk to the dentist to get him to -- excuse the expression -- call off the dogs and explain why you don't think you should pay the bill.

Edit: BTW, I go to Dr. med. dent. Myska one block from the Theresienstraße U2. Excellent work. I found him by asking my doctor where she goes for dental work rather than just a recommendation for a dentist in the immediate vicinity.

woof.

35EUR is a bargain, it used to cost me $200US to see a Dentist in San Francisco.

Hey MarcusB... sorry... MikeFromMontreal... But I guess the girls in SanFran appreciated the condition of your teeth though...

I agree that it doesn't make sense to argue over EUR 35,-. I have also learnt from bad experiences that ignoring bills is no solution! When I had depression, it was very hard for me to do anything and often ignored letters and bills until I was able to cope... by then it was too late and had incurred lawyers costs and other charges.

My advice would be to always keep the doctor informed if you have a problem paying - many can be very understanding and helpful and will allow you time to pay.

I would also first write a letter to the doctor and voice your concerns and explain why you wish not to pay. If that doesn't work and they indeed have done something wrong, you could also threaten them with legal action... maybe they will just drop it if they think they will have their business threatened with closure. It is always better to put something in writing, then they have a copy which can always be produced in court... and of course they will also then have to oblige you with a written reply.

If anyone needs contact details for a great english-speaking dentist / orthodontic surgeon in Munich centre, feel free to PM me.

depression is no excuse...

I didn't say it was... Anyway, the point I made was not to discuss depression which is off topic, but to merely point out that I had also left payments until the last minute and reaped the consequences of it.