Relationship break up costs

So, not married and been together for a while - what is the law in Germany on how much has to be paid to both parties???

... just need to know if I should get a lawyer whilst things are going well!

... it cost me a bit last time and no lawyers were involved!

so what is the score in Germany as I own property in Munich and cash in the uk!?

thanks

Is this a live-in girlfriend?
Was she financially dependent on you and have you entered into any contracts together (e.g. bank accounts, credit cards, debts, utility bills...) or have you both paid into the mortage etc?
Just for context.

we are in a very deep catholic stronghold, you aint married (yet), legally you dont need to give her owt if you dont feel obliged to on breakup.

so...

You just slip out the back, Jack
Make a new plan, Stan
You don’t need to be coy, Roy
Just get yourself free
Hop on the bus, Gus
You don’t need to discuss much
Just drop off the key, Lee
And get yourself free

Or jump on a plane Wayne

Katrina, surely joint utility bills or a joint contract on a flat doesn't legally imply financial dependency? But I think the law is different for New Zealand batters... in that only a domestic partnership can establish that dependency. ???

get on the tram, stan

No need to coy, Roy...

But If it's getting really bad I'd start talking to a lawyer who knows more about this type of thing than most of the TT'ers here.. In some cases, you can be considered a couple (In german Law) if certain bills, or contracts are entered together, even if you wern't married...

no bills or mortgage contracts entered together - all the stuff is solely in my name! however, a considerable amount was put down in each of the mortgages and I was wondering if that can be split...

JFI - not planning to break up - but I need to know my rights as one never knows what may happen in 5-10-15 years...

however, def NOT getting married ;-)

m

It's a bit like my views on prenuptual agreements. If one is considering how to deal with things if it all turns sour then it doesn't bode well for ones faith in the relationship. Just my opinion on the subject.

well if you're doing that kind of long term thinking, then just pay up and see a lawyer. if you're a nice guy, and i'm assuming you are, take her with you or tell her to go see one herself.

totally agree...

one bitten, twice shy!!!

that's only my point!

... and from experience when it comes to money - the nicest people turn evil...!

another example.
... we all know what happens also when someone dies... some people are like like flies around sh*t

sorry to be direct - but I'm a realist and I've seen it all many times before!

Well, are both your names on the property that you bought? I just bought a house with my boyfriend and since he put more money into than I did, we had a contract drawn up by a lawyer detailed who gets what in the event of breakup or death of the other. Technically, without that, my boyfriend's mother will own his half of the house if something happened to him.

But, long and short of it, see a lawyer - it is the only way to be sure of the consequences of a breakup.

well if you want to be a stark realist about it:

1. if your the primary earner, everything is in your name, and your not married, then yeah you probably have the upper hand financially. only a good lawyer can correctly tell you how to protect your income.
2. also keep in mind that when/if it comes to kids she's probably got the upper hand, especially if your not married. hell according to german law she can two time you on the side, say get knocked up by your banker, AND still claim its your kid. she doesn't have to prove DNA evidence, just make it seem plausible that it could be your kid (which if your living together and paying the bills would be plausible) and your paying up. only a little operation can correctly protect your sperm.

so yeah, if you really want to be prepared, see a lawyer and a surgeon. just in case like.

its only my name on the buyers contracts...!

however, the only thing i heard about it that when you live together with someone - BOTH working and not financially dependant... then after some time together the assets of each person then belong as one and have to be split on a break up, even if one owns way more than the other!?... SURELY though that makes no sense! is it correct!? I'm confused!?

i repeat we are in catholic stronghold..ALERT ALERT DANGER ALERT

in a modern bavarian court of law you are living in sin, she has no rights to your money basically. unless she fights like a wounded tiger bitch for years to get hold of your $$$$ and even then...

but hey its love, what are ya worried about?

if in doubt always have your passport at the ready and a flight ticket to rio just in case

Aye marcus might need at least a surgeon, more like the Lancet if they were to have kids (we've all presumed the partner is female, but that ain't necessarily so and marcus has not stated that on the thread, nor does he need to).

Whole lot of variables in there, will reply later.

I think it make sense, You pay for the house but she may pay to feed you and to take you in holiday. After 15 years, who have put more money/energy in the couple life? You may have a good position because of your nice dinner girlfriend. You would have been less successfull if you had survived on beer and popcorn.

Talking about Belgium, not that I have break-up experience there but I looked for weddings laws..
Long time couple start to have the same "protection" than civil unions and married couples. Which means that any break-up can end in front of a judge and that you could be entitled to the same consequences. Even if the house where you are living is at your name, the judge can consider that your girlfriend is entitle to a share of it as she have participated in the couple expenses. There are special clauses for the 'hauptwohnung' of couples.

And as you are not married, no pre-nup agreement. It will depend of the judge.

Following Katrina comments, It would be the same for same sex couple in Belgium but here I don't know.

are you going to be keeping receipts for everything too throughout your whole relationship? To be fair of course

I might not be very romantic but I do this for larger/more expensive household goods, not only for this reason but also for household insurance, replacement values, guarantees etc.
It makes sense for the big stuff.
And it helped tons last year when myself and the former Herr Indoors divided up the household, not because we argued about who owned what, rather that you can't always remember. I tend to staple the receipt to the guarantee or delivery paper and keep them in a file.
Honestly I don't have OCD *washes hands again*

hum - maybe see your point!

BUT - if cooking and cleaning is equal - I AM paying for every new thing in the flat and my share of the food!!! In fact sometimes more!

how on earth can it be fair for the other person to take half - when anyway, they were getting a bargain rent agreement in a flat thay could never pay for on their own!

If the law you say is correct - the other would get a great pay out and the house would have to be sold, even though they put NOTHING into in!

given a joint mortgage - both putting money in - I AGREE its fair...

this still doesnt make sense!

and what for example if both people living together were blokes ;-) ??

i repeat... you aint married you owe him-her nowt

move on

damn, this thread is depressing...

but honestly wish i had done a better job of protecting my assets with the last man in my life. no pre-nup, no record keeping of big purchases, etc. i made twice the $$ he did and got royally screwed in the divorce. not sure about German laws, but i will not make the same mistake twice. all together now...pre-nup!

Will you be able to proove it if she decide to fight you?
Note that even if what flogger say is correct now, it may not be like that in 10-15 years which is what we are talking about, not a break-up today.

indeed
in fact he could be dead in 15yrs time. just like falco is now.

Now that's depressing.


Great tune. Gotta love them muesli murderers.

It is cheaper to keep her!
Woohooh
It is cheaper to keep her!

Erm, hello?

It might be cheaper to keep her, but what about him?

this is darkest catholic bavaria.

#queers# have less rights here than those livin in sin.

no offence meant by use of word in # #

Actually not quite true.

Unmarried hetero couples can be forced to pay for each other if one is unemployed and in the case of a hetero break up, there could be a claim for maintenance / alimony / half any house etc etc

Gay couples (or even ex couples ) can only be forced into this if they have a registered civil partnership.

Ah but do you really want the Kylie shrine? Thaz's probably why you'll always be a batchelor darlink. x

thanks i stand corrected
thankfully i am not an expert on this subject

She can have the Mariah Carey CDs as well!
(Though might miss some of the Cher dances mixes)

Marcus, I think , you need a contract of some sort to clarify the situation in case of separation.

It is much simpler when you own nothing and share everything.

anyone know a good cheap lawyer ;-) ?

That's a triple oxymoron!

I also thought that unmarried couples can be legally forced to provide for each other. However, this website claims that the only time unmarried partners will be forced to pay for the other after a break-up is in the case of alimony for children:

http://www.ihre-vorsorge.de/Themen-2003-Er...Trauschein.html

The following site says that unmarried couples are in principle required to pay for the other in case of need (unemployment, etc.), just like married couples are. However, if they dispute that they are living a life similar to a married couple, then this is hard to prove by the authorities and therefore only rarely enforced. Also, if the couple stops living together, then presumably they no longer need to provide for each other, without going through a "divorce-like" settlement.

http://64.233.183.104/search?q=cache:A0dzv...unterhalt&hl=de

Conclusion: If you are not married, then your assets are solely yours under German law. There can be no claim to get half your assets or anything like that. The only possible claims relate to "bare-minimum living expenses" (though as far as I could figure out, this only holds as long as you continue to live together) and alimony for children.

I'd love to be a fly on the wall if Marcus' girlfriend/boyfriend (delete as appropriate) read this thread.
I suspect Marcus will keep them well clear of it.
He would be needing his lawyer possibly within milliseconds if his other half did read it.
Assuming they are as mercenary of course.
Not everyone thinks in €€€€€€€€€'s

I've lived through two of my mother's divorces. Marcus is bang on.

... in fact I have had this disscussion at home and openly said I may seek legal advice!

You are all right to see this as only $$$$$ in the brain - However, if you knew the whole situation you would see it VERY differently...!

If all my assets had been aquired due to the stability of a relationship, and acquired solely by myself then FINE!!! I would accept the payout.

I paid out in my last relationship. During it - she was extra nice... we had a good life together! In the end I heard... " thank your lucky stars we were not married... I would have been legally entitled to way more (OH YES)... give me back everything I have spent on shared stuff in our relationship". She convienently forgot the car I bought her - money I gave her for holidays, money I invested for her, and living rent free for 3 years in my house!!! Need I say more! ... and all she paid for was half a kitchen... ROFL... Yep I gave her the money back - looking back I should have ripped out her half and sent it down in the lift ;-)

Anyway, YES its depressing - But I've heard horror stories and experienced quite a lot in my time - good and bad!

When things are going well its always the best time to discuss things in a calm way... when things are going bad or the wrong situation arrises we all make the mistake of talking things through then. WRONG.

Everything on the table I say, and life runs much more smoothly. Following this strategy it will be less likely to even use the advice given from a lawyer!

thanks and close of subject!!!

;-)

Thing is marcus, if you were with a girlfriend then later start a relationship with a man, if this was the cause of your male/female relationship ending, well, the woman will want to hurt you. Why? Because some folk take a relationship breakdown in a very personal way, that they were deficient, that it was their fault, that they could have personally done something to stop the relationship failing.
Now if you leave someone to have a new relationship with someone of your own sex, you've (in her eyes) not not just rejected her as a person but also as a sex.
Not much you can do against that.
So people try and hurt each other however they can. As "payback".
Your ex-girlfriend took the monetary route.
Unfortunately for her, money can distract but it can't repair.

And you're spot-on. It is also like writing a will. Do it while things are good. Possibly not romantic but life often isn't.
BTW my parents have been married for 45 years and I've never been married - I have no experience of divorce.

... hum, again - assuming too many things here! ;-)

anyways... I have to work here :-(

thanks for all your comments...!

I might start gambling and then move under the bridge near my flat :-)

Oh for the simple life!

take it easy people!

M