Increase in beggars on Munich streets

Has anyone else noticed an increase in people begging for money on the streets recently?

According to this article in the Münchener Merkur they are professional beggars backed by organised crime bosses.


Crosslink by admin: More homeless people about recently

I have noticed an almost 50% increase!
There were two beggars out near Hauptbahnhof last week.

Yes...There is one young guy down by Beck who claims to be blind. However, he looked straight at me when I made a comment, caught my eye, and then looked down quickly.

I hate to be cynical, but this guy did not seem to be the real deal.

Then again, wouldn't the cops check this? They certainly want to keep downtown beggers at a minimum.

They had a huge increase in beggers (the kneeling type) in Freiburg recently. The police investigated it and found out that these people were being forced to beg (came here with promises of jobs, took their passports etc) and hand over most of the money after each shift.

The town of Freiburg banned beggers in the town and now they have gone, probably to Munich by the sound of it.

According to the article, there's not much the police can do if the beggars are EU citizens.

I have noticed a huge increase too

There were a lot last year in Freising during the summer months and then they disappeared, not so many this year but they may be back if the weather picks up

Its the start of the Thatcherite revolution that people say Germany needs. Get ready for crap public transport

Makes it kind of hard to decide whether to donate then. Give them money it goes straight to crime bosses, dont give them money, they get killed by the bosses for not being worth the food they cost.

I dont know if I buy it actually, these people would bring in so little money that surely they would rather smuggle in young women to work as whores for the same risk as bringing in bums to beg.

I suspect its probably someone trying to stir up anti immigration sentiments.

I don't think I buy it either.

Hey!... maybe the wrong thread: but does anyone know who/what the old guys are who hang outside Hauptbahnhof (Schiller str side) every single day...??
They just sit around and smoke and altho a couple look like they're living rough I've never seen them asking for money or anything more than a light.
One of them (the big give away) also wears fairly decent clothes and I've seen him ride off on his full suspension way-more-than-I-could-ever-afford mountain bike.
Undercover? Security? Aliens? Who are those guys?

Last night walking from Rosenheimerplz to Odeonsplatz, I saw about 4, usually I see 1 max, if any.

There's a vaguely Balkan-looking woman who I've seen begging around Münchner Freiheit, kneeling with a rattan bowl and a laminated photo of her 'son'.
How many real beggars have rattan bowls and laminated photos? Defo the begging mafia.

Anyway, I didn't give her any money because I only had 50c on me and I thought she'd want more for her only child.

There's another begging spot which I've seen recently, at the entrance to the arcade passageway in the centre of Münchner Freiheit.
Last week I actually saw two beggars kneeling directly opposite each other, trying to avoid making eye contact.

I don't know if it's true, but I've heard the beggars in Munich center can net several hundred a day, and if they're truely disabled, this would be on top of their disability pension and housing allowance. Some could be living better than you and I.

I knew a girl who begged once because she'd run out of money on her Grand Tour of Europe -- made 200 DM in a couple hours. That was about 10 years ago too.

I didn't click on the article but let me take a wild guess: These "professional" beggars come from Rimavska Sobota in Slovakia. The Merkur's sister paper the TZ ran EXACTLY the same story a year ago.

The idea that all beggars are "eastern European mafia professionals" is a common trick used to demonise ALL people who beg.

I suggest people go and look at employment, incomes, social security and racism in the remoter parts of Slovakia before making judgements.

It's all part of a whispering campaign against foreigners and "scroungers" for the election.

Edit: Had a bet with myself, PMSL it IS Rimavska Sobota! Jesus, the Mekur hacks should get off their arses and find some new stories! What's tomorrows story, the TZ's "Grill Polizei" headline from a year ago?!

I've seen this chap too, looks like a fairly regular bum, goes thro rubbish bins, does the normal homeless act...then jumps on a mountain bike worth around €1500. Something doesn't quite add up there

few minutes ago, a guy rang my bell asking for money...wow now they are into residential area too!

In Oxford, UK about 10 years ago, a well known "beggar" (poor chap, down and out, nice dog etc etc etc) was arrested by the police. It turned out that he was in charge of a load of beggars and had a 3 bedroomed house and car somewhere in Kent. He begged and only allowed his band of beggars to beg in the most lucrative (tourist populated) areas for a "fee" payable to his poor self. I think he got put away for tax evasion, making false claims and extorting dosh. Cleaned up Oxford for a while though!!!
The "real beggar" in High Wycombe bus station (a black guy that had mental problems) was ok though and I bought him 200 Benson Hedges cigarettes for Christmas (it was what he wanted). I used to talk to him every morning and he reckoned most beggars work in "professional gangs" so that was why he was on his own.

That was in the UK 15 years back but I dont see it being any different over here now

Hmmm. This looks like a case for Don Riina.

Now here's a question. All the scrappy looking dudes drinking and chatting on the benches in Orleansplatz: are they beggars taking a break? Or some more advanced sort of self-sufficient but homeless winos?

I don't get accosted for change when I go by... but these are definitely not your average middle-class (or even lower-class) citizens.

One1

Not all street drinkers are beggars.
Not all street drinkers are homeless.
Not all the homeless technically lack a place to live.

There's a whole bunch of issues and different groups that appear at places like Orleans platz and you notice.

If you are interested in the issues, give BISS a read, some good articles in there generally.

Bang on. The chap in High Wycombe was one of the "care in the community" chaps who just wanted to live rough due to mental problems. Completely harmless, never saw him drinking but he appreciated my Christmas gift!

Lot of "professionals" out there though, bit like Eddie Murphys character in Trading Places!!

I was on the S5 to Tutzing recently and got asked by a young girl carrying a sign (couldn't work out exactly what her sign said as it was badly scrawled on cardboard plus it was in German). She was walking around to everyone holding up her sign going 'Bitte, bitte'. I was a bit shocked that they let them do that on trains.

I also got asked by a boy standing outside a shop recently...he had some money in his hand already but I suspect he didn't have enough to buy whatever he was after. I didn't have anything to give him but probably would have. Not exactly begging but still a bit pushy.

I am in Munich for a week about every 4-6 weeks, been shuttling between NY and Munich for about a year. I was approached by my first ever beggar last month in the Viktualienmarkt. She said she needed money for food. When I offered to take her to any stall and get her a bite, suddenly she was not hungry but needed money to get home. Go figure, at least I tried. And no, I did not give her money.

Oh come on ! FFS!
We've seen already in Europe (well, Th**cherland) how you want to deal with social problems!

Cut the pay
Cut the holidays
Cut the social security benefits

Make it easier to sack workers
Make it easier to evict tennats
Demonise immigrants and those on low incomes

Any of you "liberals" think that's not how you want society to run?

YOU'RE A TERRORIST !

Yeah, we should go back to Pre- Tha****r days!

Go on strike if someone suggests actually doing any work
Let the unions run the country into the ground
Picket, bully and assault anyone that does actually want to go to work
We can all live in council houses with 5 years rent arrears but have a flash motor and 2 foreign holidays a year
Have mega pay rises (but only to keep up with hyper - inflation)
Make pensions, mortgages and stock owning impossibly expensive

Yep life was great then.

I dont know what sort of figures they had for the amount of beggars on the street though?!

@Blimeygirl
They didn't "Let" her, they just didn't catch her yet... Begging for $ including playing live music for $$ on the S/U-Bahn is Illeagal, and should be reported to the Bahnschutz (BSG)..

Did anyone catch two weeks ago report on CNN that last year Italy rose it`s national annual income by more than 17% as compared to Germany`s rise of 1%.
Or about a month ago on CNN Germany ordered it`s finance minister to sell off some of its gold reserve, to be used in both commerce and education. Since then everybody has money to spare have you seen the malls jammed packed, either eating in the side cafes or walking around with bags in their hands. Their is an election coming up in September that`s why. You don`t remember how starving you were in January, but now look what my money will do for me in August. I was able to buy this and that. I was even able to give the beggar on the street some of my money and it made me feel so good about myself. What will happen in a couple more years when the EU that has ordered free commerce for the automotive market to take place. Meaning that now automotive parts that is regulated by this social goovernment to be made and sold only in this country and the leader of this is BMV, will have to face competition or... So now China is stock piling their automotive parts by the thousands, what used to cost 300 euros for an automotive part, that cost about 16 euros to be made we will now see the real cost to come us of maybe 40 euros. The textile industry just got hit here with the same orders either bring in competition or... Have you noticed the prices of clothes here lately. Rock Bottom. Why China flooded the country with rafia material, CNN had an update on this also how the German Textile Industry was up in arms. Again what cost 2 euro to make and be sold for 100 euros. So now the pitence that the textile workers made in the past , and it was mostly with foreign hands, now well they don`t need to keep them employed anymore for they can`t compete with 10 euro a day salary like they get in China. Now when this happens more people take to the streets - in the form of begging. But you won`t or don`t see any of this printed in the newspapers now do you.

there's an argument (not saying it's mine or that I agree with it, but it made me think about it a bit) that the pitance paid to Asian workers is indicative of the beginning of the industrial age for those countries, and can be comparable to the pitance that British or American workers made at a comparable point in their economies' evolution (1800s, etc.)

I've gotten in the habit of not giving to the homeless mainly from living in the Haight in San Francisco, where you know most of the people asking are fine, but just want it for drinks or drugs. I, of course, know there is a whole host of others who fell through the system who do need help though and for those I don't agree that the "call the cops" or "stay at a friend's" or "get a job" is at all the right approach. It is hard to distinguish at times though.

Side note: no way something cost 2 euros to make is being sold for 100. sure, maybe the workers received 2 euros for it, but shipping, warehousing, marketing, corporate salaries, packaging, all sorts of costs need to be considered too. I don't know of any clothing manufacturer that has a 98 percent net margin (even if you left out the absurd corporate salaries) or even a 98 percent gross margin.

Beggers in Munich? I've noticed an absolutely exponential rise in beggars around Schwabing of late - Kick them in the teeth I say. They are kneeling down anyway, height is perfect so give them a good booting. Mafia run business my arse. Sullies the word mafia to use it in the context of little scummy beggars. Organised gangs, maybe, but mafia not.
German taxation is ridiculously high to pay for lovely fluffy social benefits, so I am fucked if I wanna give more money away.

If you wanna give them money, make them do some work for you. Clean your shoes, toilet, whatever. If they are so desperate for cash, they should be happy with the paid work.

Sure it does, when all of your shippers, warehousers, marketing, packaging and not too mention corporate salaries all are under one management. By dealing in high volumes yes, it can be that high or higher. CNN just recently did a piece on the leading industry in Italy - shoes and how China was hurting them immensely. The owner of a corporation, huge industry with a mass amount of employees in the background while being interveiwed, showed one pair of his shoes that he manufactures while being filmed. He stated that this pair of shoes costs him totally 9.00 euros to produce and that he wholesales this same pair of shoes for 30.00 euros, if my math is correct that is well above the 98%. Now follow that same pair of shoes to the stores here that price now exceeds 200 euros again over 98% and even if they had a going out of business sale where everything would be 70% off they are still making over 98%. However, we lost our Textile industry some thirty years ago to china, but coming from America we would never in a million years pay 200 euros for a pair of shoes. When I see these prices I say to myself what are they nuts, no shoe is worth 200 euros and keep on walking, but here the mentality is different because of the social controls they have had in place for so many years. They don`t realize that NO shoe costs 200 euros, for that`s all they ever had was 200 euro pair of shoes. Now that competition has started to come in and they are seeing the difference, they are buying more than one pair of shoes to last upwards of maybe five years. They are now seeing what competition can do for them, they now have more of this and more of that. And now yes, they don`t have to go into hawk just to own one pair of shoes. Come on here now with the American dream to own your own house and we all know what materials costs now a days with competition, each American strives to achieve this why because it is afforable. There is no way that to own one flat here - upwards of 400,000 euros, someone is being ripped off big time. But housing has always made millionaires here richer. Why this is all they have been shown, this is a way of life here. What this does is keep the wealthy in so called modest living, while all the other so called poor people are left to pay very high rents. Half these poor people couldn`t even afford to move even if they wanted to.

€21 profit on a €30 sale is a margin of 70%. €191 profit on a €200 sale is a margin of 96%. If he said "produce" that is typically without general and administrative costs, sales and marketing, shipping, but would include factory overhead and wages of employees on the production line. Take The Gap for example, which we all know uses labor in the very farthest reaches of the world to make its clothes, their net margin last year was somewhere around 6 or 7%.

Property and rents are higher here in Munich because, largely, of the high tech boom and all the money it brought with it - believe me, I had a rude awakening when I bought my place in San Francisco. That said, the boom brought money to the German economy. The problem is the people that we need to fill the blue collar jobs cannot afford to live in the cities which need them. This happens in every large and expensive city. Period. Loss of the rich means less or no money filtering down to the poor. It sucks but it happens in every culture and it seems the only way to address is funding for low income housing from the government, which in and of itself is usually hard to get and not that great.

Current apartment prices in Munich at the Süddeutsche Zeitung

You can sort them by all kinds of things. The link above is for 3Zimmer Wohnungen, and I did the math with a calculator for one:

3-Zimmer-Wohnungen (Wiederverkauf)
München
einfache Lage

Anzahl: 189 Wohnfläche: 78qm €/qm minimum:1600 adds up to an apartment price of €124800.

@monkstown
Couldn't agree more mate God help us all if that Merkel comes to town.

if I've done the math right, same size place would be over €300000 at home. sweet!

Yeah, I saw the same guy walking around in Schwabing, without any help! So, he can't be blind after all.

The increase kinda really annoys me...I actually blogged about it.

An elderly woman asked the passengers of S1 for money this afternoon. She had a sign but I didn't read it. She quickly moved on when nobody gave her something.

@Monks: what is BISS... don't know the acronym.

I am truly curious about the people out on the street (for whatever reason) near my place.

http://www.biss-magazin.de/
http://www.br-online.de/land-und-leute/the.../biss_start.xml

BISS stands for Bürger in Sozialen Schwierigkeiten -- citizens in social difficulties. Sold and written by them, supposed to be a way to get back into earning a living. I don't think many of the sellers or writers ever move on to anything else though, and the article at br-online only mentions people who eventually work for BISS permanently. So I think it's just organized begging with a cloak of respectability. Glad to see any evidence to the contrary though. MT?

Oh wait a sec, this has been discussed before over here:

BISS magazine and their sellers, Monthly newspaper by the homeless

Thanks for the shout Gen

Purely by chance today I overheard a woman complaining to a policeman that she had been begged for money. The police officer explained to her that begging, in itself, is not a crime. She seemed quite put out by the fact.

BISS is part of a larger group that started in Britain, called " The Big Issue"...

According to their website, Big Issue

The Big Issue aims to:

Enable homeless people to earn a legal income through opportunities to help themselves
Invest profits in services to help homeless people and Big Issue vendors tackle obstacles to them helping themselves
Provide people with a voice in the media
Produce a quality magazine which engages readers with issues that affect their lives but are overlooked by other media
Provide an example of a socially responsible business and an alternative to conventional charity as a response to homelessness

If you folllow the International Link you will find all the 45 related street papers.

Cam

Many years ago, I knew a guy who would go out begging in the summer months, even though he had a bedsit above our flat. He claimed full benefits: housing benefit, council tax benefit, jsa (though it wasn't called jsa back then) and would supplement it by begging. I'm not kidding when I say that he used to take a train all the way to Bath, because he could easily make a hundred quid in just one day.

He ended up dead because he used to put everything and anything into his veins. If you really want to help the homeless, get involved with professional organisations who help them. Giving them cash on the street just increases their dependence ON the streets. If people had not given money to this guy, he wouldn't have been able to put so much rubbish into his system. They do it because they can and if people want it to stop, then they have to stop feeding the problem. If you see someone who you think is really homeless and you want to help, take them something to eat and a bottle of fresh water. Perhaps buy them half a chicken from one of those venders, with a bag of rolls and some coke. No, not the stuff you snort from toilet cisterns! Give 'em a takeaway coffee, a beer, anything. The ones who are really homeless won't be bothered by the fact that it ain't money!

I don't know how it is here (and obviously it would be different for illegal immigrants anyway), but in England, the homeless can register for income support and recieve it on a daily basis. Being registered as having 'No Fixed Abode' entitles them to collect their benefit in the form of a Giro from the issuing office responsible for that area. Then they take the Giro to the local post office and exchange it for the cash. I don't know if maybe things have changed, but just a few years ago, they also got an extra supplement if they had a dog, so that the animal didn't go without food. Okay, so it might be different here and not relevant for illegal immigrants, but I still think that if you want to give something, it's better to give them the stuff they need. Food, drink and clothing, not money for cheap vodka or scag.

As for the police not being able to do anything about it because they're EU citizens, that can't be right. The police do have powers to move people on if they are 'loitering', whether they are German nationals or from elsewhere in Europe. It's probably more a case of them just having bigger fish to fry. Unfortunately, not with King Edwards' thick cut and a good slash of vinegar oh how I miss English fish and chips *yum* Hey, anyone know anywhere I can get proper fish and chips here? and no, not those pommes things that look like Kate Moss, proper fat and greasy and ready to go from a shiny silver counter... *mnmmnmn*

I don't necessarily buy into it but there's a school of thought that ssays once you hand over that money, it's THEIRS and what they spend it on is their business. No one has too much of a big problem with the employed spending their money on drink do they?

I never said it bothered me. I merely made a suggestion for those who find themselves in the dilemna of wanting to help, but not knowing what to do for the best. You've obviously never been homeless.

Now, where are those recommendations for a good supply of fish and chips???

By the grace of God, no.
It is a dilemna true.

(Make your own chips at home but wait for old spuds again in the autumn)

aah... home made chips... mnnmnmn... at least I'd know the oil's only been used once! Nope, I must resist. The seams in my jeans canny take nay moore!

and yes, you are right, it is a dilemna. Did you ever see the exhibition that they put on under one of the bridges at the Isar? Someone had taken photos of the homeless there, had interviewed them and then put their story next to their photos on the walls, under the bridge. It was very moving. I know there are those who really are taking the mick, but then there are also the ones who really are homeless. My partner took me for a walk through there one day and I asked if we could stop and look at the pictures, I didn't realise what they were at the time and he had to translate the texts for me. It was really moving, especially because the guys who were the focus of the display were camped with their wares just a few feet from where we were standing.

Has anyone ever met someone who genuinely didn't want to be rescued from homelessness? I have known folk in the past who didn't want to be part of society, who couldn't face the everyday responsibilities and who would rather brave the bitter cold of a seafront bus shelter than the rat race of modern civilisation. It's hard to tell which category they fall into, unless you talk to them. Food, money, warmth, safety, but what about a human touch? The thought that someone notices you and at least gives you a smile. It's not exactly pleasant when people won't even make eye contact with you, because they're anxious that you might ask them for money. Sometimes it's nice if someone just stops to chat about the bloody weather! It's nice to feel that people notice and that people care, even if you don't want to be a part of what they do.

Sometimes they've got a lot of good stuff to say. There were times in my teenage years, when I would walk along the seafront with such desperate thoughts and would end up chatting to one of the tramps there. They'd always share some jewel of encouragement or inspiration. I think I've had more spiritual guidance from tramps than from my own family. If you need spiritual counselling, head to a bus shelter Then again, I've also met some complete nutcakes who've made me wish I'd not said anything!

Hey, I've just remembered this one guy in particular. He was with another guy, stood on the steps outside a bank. They stank of alcohol and had that mad old Steptoe look about 'em, but were so cheery that when one of them called me over, I just couldn't refuse. I was with a friend, who didn't want to go anywhere near them and who completely embarrassed me by standing ten feet away and refusing to talk to them or even come close. I shook the guy's hand when he reached out to me and afterwards, my friend told me how that was disgusting. Jeezus, we both worked in nursing environments and were more likely to catch nasties from the blinking patients, than from him! It's not like I had any cuts on my hands or anything and I wasn't intending to snog the bloke! I went and washed my hands in a public toilet just to keep her happy and to stop her nagging. Personally, I'd be more worried about the guy who dished up hot dogs outside the arcade, his fingernails were filthy *ew*

Anyway (sorry, I digress) this guy was talking in total wino fashion, with all the necessary clicks of the tongue and mad whooping. What is it about meths that makes them do that? I couldn't understand a word he was saying, but he was so happy and so funny with his mannerisms that I felt compelled to at least try and join in. My poor mate was quite uncomfortable at this point and I was delighted when he completely blew away her prejudices by pulling out a pack of cards from his scabby old coat and performing a card trick that really made you wonder whether he was really who he seemed to be. It made you want to turn around and check for a film crew. He was as pissed as a fart and still had enough skill and co-ordination to confound me. I stood there, looking phased and he laughed a big hearty laugh, shook my hand and bellowed out a blessing of health and happiness to me. That guy had completely made my day, I walked around with a smile for ages, trying to figure out how he'd done that trick...

*scratches head*

Oh gawd, I do go on don't I?

There's partly that, yes.
I suppose a lot of us reject some of society in one way or another.

Also worth mentioning though I don't know if it applies to Munich is that the level of violence, harrasment, abuse, drug use in institutions for the homeless can be very high and a lot of homelss feel safer or maybe more in control of themselves is a better way of saying it, on the streets.

The exhibition under Wittelsbacherbrücke was really good.

Yes it was, do you know who did it?

For the ones who are alcoholics, some of the refuges are useless because some of them insist on no alcohol, no drugs etc and if you drink or smoke pot, you can't stay there. When they're so addicted to alcohol that their body would go into shock if they stopped drinking, then there's no choice but to stay out in the cold.

We're so lucky having what we have eh?

Neither have you. While your admittedly rambling posts are interesting, you incorrectly presume a bit much.

Anyone can become homeless, and pretty quickly. It just takes a short run of bad luck. It takes a lot of fucking work to get back off the streets, addiction or not.

Where can you wash yourself before going to try and get a job? How do you keep yourself clean enough for the month you're working without having been paid yet? How do you eat when your time is spent working and you have no money yet for food?

Those are some of the easier dilemmas.

voff.

AFAIK, the group of homelss who generally live under Wittelsbacherbrücke ("Penner Brücke" in local slang) organised and produced the art exhibition themselves.

I'm sure if some of it still there. I's day seeing it there is better than in somr nice warm clean museum that's fluffed and buffed by the government and corportae sponsored.

I'd THROUGHLY recomend seeing this to all TTers; espeically those who think it's a "pinch" earning € 75K+ a year and yearning for more Thatcherism.