German "Sie" and "du", what's the difference?

I noticed at work that even people who've been working with each other forever and thus know each other well, they still address each other with "Sie".

And also in my little "German Grammar in a Nutshell"-book it says: "It is also quite common for colleagues at work to use the Sie form even though they have known each other for years".

It must be very common to address a superior in a polite way no matter where you are in the world, but your colleagues...WHY?? Is it just because they wanted to have another exception to the rule in the German language and standards??

If the older person doesn't offer you the "Du" than you'll have to stay with the "Sie" forever. It'S unpolite to say "Du" first if you're younger.

To a large extent it's because you have colleagues & friends and never the Twain shall meet. Friends are 'du' and others are 'sie' whether you've known them a lifetime or not.

It relates to a German tradition that work and home are separated. Unlike in Britain and the USA most people socialise at work because this is where they tend to make most social contact, in Germany most natives tend to make friends from kindergarten, school and church group, which they tend to keep for a lifetime. They do not move house as often as we do so don't need to uproot each time like us and find new friends.

Using the Sie form is a way of maintaining social distance with someone and stops them from being too familiar with you.

Expats on the other hand meet each other at work more as this is possibly their only stable social contact.

I stand to be corrected on this cultural point. Maybe a lifer here can add their opinion?

Jeremy.

Its an interesting situation in my work now, as so many people spoke to me in English when I first arrived here, now they speak to me in German, so as we never invited each other to say Du, they seem to keep switching between Sie and Du, but as soon as I can I invite them to say Du.

Its very structural, very formal. It seems to create even more working groups than normal. The group that do once a year go out together for a drink call each other by Du, and the others by Sie. I'm just an exception though ! I also seem to be an exception !

i hate the whole 'Sie' thing cos the grammer also changes when you use Sie, and i've just gotten the hang of using the grammer with 'Du'!! luckily at work we all say Du, but at my previous workplace it was always 'Sie' and i had to think of the right grammer before every sentence !!

I read somewhere something like "If the boss uses 'Du' with his Secretary, everyone in the office will think he's sleeping with her", so that could explain some of it.

When I was first here, I used Du with everyone because mixing up two forms of verbs was too much for me. So I asked people "excuse me for not being any good with the Sie form, do you mind if I use Du". I invariably got an answer like "not at all".

By the time I'd learnt both forms I preferred Du anyway and have used "I'm Australian, we're not very formal call me Bruce" with pretty much everyone except a boss approaching retirement age. Generally despite being extremely formal with each other when I arrive, they seemed to prefer the informal side when someone else triggered it.

The grammar is easier with sie anyway. At my place, everybody uses du, and sie is reserved for clients and stuff. I always use du at work, and even do with some of my (older) clients, but we are in the hotels game, and most people are more accomodating to non-germans using du. They realise no disrespect was meant.

Its one of the bits of german language that does not really bother me.
276 varieties of the word "the" though, don't let me start...

The reaction is often interesting if you use Du without being invited. Its supposed to be disrespectful if you use Du without being invited.

As a general rule - as a non-native you get away with not sticking strictly to the rules, so make the most of it. But, no matter how much practice you've had, you will find that once you've spoken to someone in English it is very difficult to call them Sie.

Should one say "Du kannst mich mal"

or "Sie können mich mal"

Any long terma expats may know this one!

Is far more insulting!

I've been to three parties with my neighbors, but it was only at the more recent one that I was really able to talk to them in German. All of my neighbors are a lot older than me (mostly retired) but are all good friends with each other (and therefore use the 'du' form with each other). Well I wasn't really sure what I should use, so I asked one of the chaps who speaks really good English (in English) whether I should use Sie or du - explaining that I didn't want to be rude. He said I could use 'du', and explained to all the others nearby (who agreed with him). The problem was then that I couldn't remember which neighbors were there at the time, and those that weren't started using 'Sie' with me, leaving me in the uncomfortable position of not knowing what exactly I should use...

Also had a Java training course (in German) a couple of weeks ago, and had real trouble with the Sie form, as I never use it normally. I ended up constructing sentences which started in the Sie form and ended in the du form!

to go out on a slightly non-pc limb; does anyone have a good rule of thumb for the use of 'du' or 'Sie' when trying to, ahem, 'encourage the affections of a potential significant other'?

It seems strange to use a formal 'distancing' form of 'you' when you're trying to chat someone up but also a bit rude to just start talking to someone in the familiar just because you think they're minky: it would be if you asked them directions in the street, so is it different in a bar?

Then you get the prospect of changing from Sie to du mid conversation which is quite tricky I think. It is as simple as using du if you are interested and Sie if you are not?

Suppose we could do with some natives to answer this, but after Bob's last pogrom I don't think there are any left...

Not that I've been rather unsuccessful with the natives and am trying to pin the blame on nuances of the language of course...

:Checks position of coat from corner of eye:

You tend to find that most young'ish people when out in bars always, particularly after a beer or two immediately start using Du.

Usually its only the older ones that want to hang onto the Sie form ! as they have earnt it !

Brummie, here are my two cents. If you are introduced by first names, start Dutzing right from the get go. If you start chatting to a stranger who's name you don't know and you start Siezing, try asking if you can Dutzen once you learn their name.

If you are about the same age and meet in a bar and they are not from the Police (or another position of authority) I would use Du and did when I met Herr Indoors.
I haven't had to "chat someone up" since!
In other situations I tend to use Sie until the Du is offered.
If I'm introduced as Du then I will stay in Du.
At work I use Du about 80% of the time (and tu rather than vous in French) reserving Sie for strangers and people way, way up the hierachy.
I don't mind using Sie (except when it is in a mixed form such as calling me by my first name and still using Sie, that I don't like) and do tend to switch to Sie if I not happy (it creates distance, especially useful when I speak in German and get an answer in English from a German, that switches all blowers to chill that does). Mind you I have always been Du to Herr Indoor's family (his brother's girlfriend has only recently become Du after 4 years of Sie), maybe I'm just nice though
Katrina
PS In Stuttgart waiting staff tend to use Sie (apart from in student bars) unlike in Bavaria where Du is used (apart from in very high-class restaurants).

Everyone at my work uses DU unless speaking with the director, so thats easy enough to deal with.

My biggest problem is at Bondi, the regular Germans and other foreigners who dont speak english allow du which is great...until I move and serve a different table of new german customers...and then I get all confused and use du... then I apologise saying "sorry Sie" and say it again correctly...they always look at me like Im some nutter!

If someone wants something from you then they will communicate to you in what ever stage of German you know, or their best English. Together we get there. Sie and Du aside. If they don't want to speak with you, you are better off not even bothering with them. This is what has gotten me through the first 6 months of Germany with only one year's experience in the lingo.
When they want something of me, believe me, they figure out a way. On the other side of the coin, when I want turkey, I go look up the word 'cause the jokers at Tengelmann don't speak a word of English, or I just get more chicken 'cause that's all I know.
here's for blundering-