ACL surgery with Sportmedizin at Wolfart Klinik

Oh I had two screws for the patellar tendon too. Two bone splinters driven with the screws into two bone holes. You should see me demonstrate the hammering in person.

here's a nice comparison of European v. American crutches too btw -- I greatly prefer US-style, as I can go way faster on them, and the forearm style is too unstable as my arms bend at the elbow (like most do) and the forearms pop out of the front of the plastic thingies.

http://crookedtimber.org/2004/09/05/crutches

Bobbing Club Meetup. Shall we have Editor Bob come along just in case? Oh now it sounds kinky. Sounds like we need to meet at KFC though, I still haven't been, as they don't do biscuits...

Ahh my bad. Somehow I read "screw" even though you said "screws"

Something I forgot to mention, I think it will still be a full narcose deal. It was for me and bloody glad it was too.. I would not have been able to deal with that. Even just an injection almost makes me faint!

And I hate American crutches

conclusions from the crutch comparison site I linked above:

1. Underarms are cheaper.
2. Underarms allow a greater proportion of your weight to be passed through the crutch.
3. Underarms allow weight bearing with your hands free by leaning on your armpits (though apparently not advised due to axillary nerve injuries).
4. I think that, because the early adopters of forearm crutches in the US were obviously impaired by Muscular Dystrophy or the like, while most axillary crutch users were clearly temporarily disabled by a broken leg, say, forearm crutches were stigamtized in some people’s minds as being for disabled people. (see ads for Muscular Dystrophy fund drives)
5. Forearm crutches are fine if you can bear some weight on each leg, like many permanently disabled people can, but not if you've got one leg that cannot bear any weight.
6. Underarms are more stable.
7. I could always go faster on the underarm kind -- and as someone who was injured being athletic, I was still interested in going about at a fast pace.
8. To each his own.

Might split that out sometime. Before I get an operation I sure wanna ask if they'll gimme the underarm kind though, no matter how long I'll be on them.

I'll be glad to be fully under anyhow, TV showed an ACL repair the night before I had one and I had to turn it off, it was turning my stomach.

@ Gen..I disagree with no.5 of your pros on foream crutches...You don't need two legs, I am living proof!

I have used crutches everday for the past two years, and own several pairs of forearm crutches and only one set of the underarm type...talk about torture! The underarm type induce a kind of paralysis which will
cause long-term pain even after you don't need the crutches...take it from an expert use the forearm type.

The latest addition to my crutch collection is a pair of custom-made rosewood forearm crutches from an artisan in New Hampshire...Man gönnt sich sonst Nichts!

Any long-term crutching is a pain in the wazoo!

I too disagree with point 5.. but its all just what you are used to and a matter of preference I guess (point 8!)... I hate the way they dig into your armpit and they slow me right down. I can fly on forearm crutches with only one leg in use.

Ha ha ha ha ha
Aye, we can do that!
I went to the chemist's that Tom17 used and got fitted for a neoprene interim brace, Futuro brand. Even managed 20mins on the bike with it last night!
I'm still in shock I guess and that's just really bad news for you Gen!
Crikey, if everything comes in threes I hope folk are looking after their knees!

Tja, well the doc this morning gave me a brace right away, and I give it back when I don't need it anymore. Whew, glad that day will come. I don't have to wear it all the time, like not at home, but when I go out I should, so I'll be wearing lots of skirts I guess as it's quite large and just barely fit under the jeans I had on. It's amazing what those docs see on the MRI, to me it's a bunch of blobs. The screws show up nicely on the Xrays though. They're going to remove one of the old ones and use the canal to draw the semitendon through... wow. And the upper one they'll leave, if they can, and they have to drill a new hole past it. There are some minor meniscus tears and cartilage and that needs tidying up too. 20 years ago they would have removed the meniscus, apparently. Gawd, my last operation was 16 years ago, guess I was lucky I didn't tear it then. Funny how the diagnosis is a mixture of Latin, German, and English -- "bone bruise" is on there in English, for example.

I should only be on crutches for four weeks this time though, not three months like I was 16 years ago -- and at that time they told me they used to immobilize the knee for six months! Now total recovery time is supposed to be six months instead of a year... and I'll be in the clinic 4-6 days, not just 3 like last time. Going in March 9 for operation March 10. If I'm still in there on the 16th I can watch the Starkbieranstich on TV.

I count three TT injuries here already this season -- Katrina, me, and RA_. I think that's enough.

Quick question: I've got my Kostenvoranschlag from the clinic and my insurers have receved it. My Kostenübernahme Erklärung from my insurer is also through and has been sent to the clinic and the hospital.
Apart from arranging my pre-op tests, is there anything else I need to submit? I've never had a *proper* overnight stay in a hospital (nor an operaion apart from dental) so I'm a wee bit confused.

I don't think so, but I'm in the gesetzliche Krankenkasse (public health insurance), so I don't get a Kostenvoranschlag (cost estimate) or anything. I just show up. I do have to stell an Antrag (submit a request) for intense physical therapy which'll be 2 hours a day and not just the 40 minutes I'd get otherwise. (Self-hypnosis for extended physical exertion is not covered. Where did I come up with that?)

You need nice jammies though, people're gonna come visit. And a hand mirror so you can check your makeup / hairdo without getting up. Actually I bet there's a checklist somewhere of things you don't think about needing in the hospital... can we get flowers? I hope so, I like flowers. And fruit baskets. I wanna know if we can drink beer too.

@katrina
I dont understand all those German words, but I do know is that with my Bupa insurance, the hospital wanted 2 grand up front or they would not admit me. That was a very stressfull day.

And Gen, they definately allow beer as they served me some with my lunch on my last day there

yay! English added above for Tom and other people -- sometimes I forget I'm not just writing to Katrina.

Kostenübernahme Erklärung = guarantee that they will cough up and what for
Apparently my insurer knows the clinic and vice versa, few of my fellow insurees also been there so they do direct billing to the insurer.
Which hopefully means that I don't have to take 2K with me.
Make-up? Hair-do? I'm fully intending to be in Hag-Vision*

*like usual then

@Katrina. I didn't have to pay anything up front when I was in hospital, so I don't think you'll need to either. They did send me copy of the bills afterwards, so I could see how much money the insureres had paid.

I would advise earplugs - I got put in a double room with a big Bavarian woman who snored - and lots of books/magazines.

I hope it goes well,
Bron

I don't discuss where I work openly online sorry.

@Bron, were you at the Wolfart Klinik? The 2K thing was specific to them, not normal hospitals. Katrina's insurers know them so all is cool, I may be ignored

I decided to have a second opinion and went to another orthopedics. Although I have got the ACL and meniscus damaged, he also said that it seems to be very stable and don´t need an operation (although he said 1 out of 10 people with this problem end up needing an op.). The first doc. recommended krankengymnastik after two weeks of having the orthosis but this second one said no way, it is too soon and I need to have this for 6 weeks and then will see how it goes..

So now I am all confused..Should I go to a third doc.? Krankeng. or not Krankeng. ...that is the question!!

ah, so i have some company in the ACL injury section this winter. stupid skiing. (or rather stupid me for not paying attention in the flat run out from an off-piste section when my right leg turned right very sharply).

had to drive 4 hours home from zillertal, so when i got home my leg was 'frozen' in that position and when i got out of the car i just fell over screaming. so, x-rays, mri and facharzt all say ruptured acl - go for an op. knackers and such nice snow that day too.

RA: I was told 17 years ago when I first tore mine that 30% of people don't need it operated on, so I left it for a year. I reinjured my knee a couple times in that year though, once just jumping over a puddle, so I had the operation. I'm sure it would go that way this time too.

If you'll definitely be happy just walking sedately for the rest of your life, don't bother with an operation. You can always get it operated on later if it proves to be a problem, but of course, don't leave it to get more damaged -- read this thread from the beginning again, where Tom17 tells about having left his knee for a while and having to get it repaired in the end anyway.

grazzenger, wtf? We already had three this season, and bad things are only supposed to come in threes. I hope you can get off crutches by the time your kid's due though, your wife will appreciate it.

grazzenger! Noooooooooooo!
You coming down to party hearty (me hearties arhhhhhhhhhh - must bring own parrot) at the Wolfahrt? Gen and I's stays will overlap. We'd like all the company we can get!*

*although it would be better if folk didn't have to actually be in the hospital needing treatment

not sure where yet. as a country bumpkin out in erding who knows. however, i am privately insured, hence their immediate recommendation for an mri scan which i got the bill for this afternoon, cripes!!! so we'll see where the facharzt sends me.

gen, yep, the good lady wife is getting a bit bored of me hobbling around the place being crap already. i can walk on it, but i get the feeling it's just not that smart a thing to do. i was entirely sure within 6 hours that something was very, very wrong: probably due to the amount of screaming i did when i got home. even the neighbours came round the next day to ask if everything was ok.

problem is that now i can walk (slowly and carefully) on it so as soon as a have a drinky or 3 i get all courageous (not good when i was on a stag do at the weekend).

mind you i've been waiting for over 20 years for the first proper skiing injury, so may as well make it a good'un!

No worries dahling, private shower complete with soaps and shampoos provided and clean fresh towels. I am telling you that place is nicer than some hotels I have stayed at

the klinik website doesn't say how much it costs to upgrade to a private room -- anyone know?

http://www.wolfartklinik.de/Hotelbereich/Wahlleistungen.htm -- this is where it will someday say. I admit I haven't called though, as I think I'm too cheap to pay for that anyway. Heck, I'll have earplugs.

sorry cant remember. but i'll visit you and kathrina for free, as i live round the courner...

ah, the best things in life are free.

but you'll both pay for any flowers grapes and copies of the gnaurdian i bring.

I prefer the New Yorker thank you. 10 Euros at Hauptbahnhof.

My knee 3 days after the accident in November ...Here Now I can gt around without the brace, but I have rehab till the end of April or so. I didn't tear anything, just severely sprained (uberdient) the inner and outer ligaments.

I was lucky enough to not need surgery, so I'm not sure why Im replying to this thread, but I felt the need...

C.

ps : Avoid cycling with Lurch if at all possible. Consider yourself warned.

Lurch is meant to fix folk, not break them! Bad marketing man, v. bad marketing!
Glad to know you're getting a bit better though C!

I have another session with him today, actually. Between him and therasport I should be ready to hurt myself again when the snow is gone and its green again.

I had a long visit with Gen today, the surgery went well and she is very awake and eager for visitors. She is in a 5-bed-room with 4 occupants at the moment (room 28 on the first floor, go right at reception, cross the entry hall, take the stairs to the first floor, turn left, look for room 28 and realize it comes before room 27 on the left side).
Her left leg is all bound up in bandages and a brace with two drainage tubes drooping out inelegantly, her toes are painted a brilliant shade of orange (disinfectant) and she has all sorts of needles stuck into her which will soon be removed.
Depending on her recovery she will be in the clinic until at least the 14th and possibly the 17th. I would not advise bringing potted plants (danger of bacteria) when you visit her, but the odd spring flower or two would brighten up the white monotony.
image removed by admin: too much information

OMG such flashbacks...Gen how could you hold that up!!! hehe...glad you are in good spirits and all went well, best wishes for a speedy recovery (and it is suprisingly speedy so hang in there )

Really have to love those body stockings...what is it with those things.

Not attractive true, but better than having a stroke due to a blood clot. Can't wait to see Katrina wearing the same.

Meanie. Some people could quite go for me in surgical equipment I'll have you know.
Although, why I know this could well be classed as Too Much Information.
Maybe I'll bring in a loose garter just to jazz it up a bit...
Anyway, my insurer and Hausarzt both now want me to go straight to Reha/Kür/whichever name pays full whack, so Bad Wiesee looks very likely. And who says that living on your own is a bad thing? Three weeks of sweating it out in the Bavarian Alps doesn't sound too awful.

@ Katrina, I hope I didn't gross you out. Gen and I mentioned you and your upcoming ordeal. All the best!

Folk keep on telling me things I really do not want to or need to know. Saying that something reminded her of sushi nearly caused me to throw up over the Maki at lunch so I guess it is like when someone is pregnant, the last thing some of them want to hear is tales of delivery woe (while others want every last bit of info)?
But thanks anyway!
Although I must say that if the woman in my department says once more about how she nearly died from anaethesia, I'll boot her with my good leg.
Oh I've just read that Martina Hingis and Jann Ullrich (when he did pills in Pasha) did their physio in Bad Wiesee. I'm going to have a world class knee at this rate (wonder if they can fix the rest at the same time? hmmm).

Did I tell you once I almost died when a rock fell on my head??

No. I missed that one, pootle. Run it by me again.

it was the hooligans that did it honest! Kathrina, i have to be in köln on the weekend so i cant drop an observer off on sunday evening. will come by for the giggle to see if your sushi pictures are as good as gen's though.

I'm out and at home. Bad Wiessee would be great, they have a casino. It's stinky though of course. I teach my courses there -- so bummed, I'm krankgeschrieben until April 9 but as a freelancer I don't have anyone to turn the form in to -- and I have three seminars to teach until then too. Oh well, rent first, knee later. I just have to teach while sitting. I'm thinking of going out to reha for the part where I'd be going a few times a week -- the docs have said that the 5x weekly for four hours each time is only necessary for people who have real problems. My knee was in worse shape than they first knew, so they had to... er um well why I don't I just tell you about it after you've had your operation hey? Anyway I drive right through Bad Wiessee to get to my courses, so I can come visit when you're there! Just need a car and driver...

The jugs of blood attached via hoses were funny though, like the kiddy toy duck on a string that you drag behind you -- you're supposed to hold them up when you crutch about but I didn't bother, it was too amusing to drag them. Made me feel like a zombie and that's more fun. A zombie in white thigh-highs.

Well Bad Wiessee is doing me the power of good, 90°+ in the knee, am mostly without crutches and straight night brace is off, this is four weeks post-ACL with hamstring transfer.
Wolfahrt Clinic gets a big thumbs up from me and for me personally the Anschlussheilbehandlung (the reha I'm doing now) was the right choice at the right time. Staff have been great, I've got another 2 weeks to go and I'm working really hard (8am-6pm per day, two lots of physio, isometric training, weight training, cardio, lymph drainage, acupuncture/acupressure, massages, passive motor training, aqua training... the day is long and fully booked) with the team here but if your brain doesn't want to work (or indeed if the swelling is still massive), then there is no point in any therapy at all. This is the right choice for me though (I love my insurer!), it might not be for all.
As a final note, if you think something is wrong with your knee, go and get it checked straight away (you know who you are).

@ Katrina: I'm glad you're doing well, you sound really perky. Keep up the good work!

so what's the verdict on skiing then Katrina? Any good?

Well skiing was good and I'll do it again - this cheers me up for some obscure reason (prob something about one swallow not making a springtime or something), oh ye of the Schadenfreude.

Hi,

My name is Thea and have been following your discussions for weeks now. Unfortunatelly I have the same problem as most of you-a torn ACL, while having fun skiing in France... I had borrowed skishoes from a woman with a much larger number of shoes than mine and the first time I fell, the skis didn't open and plack! my leg twisted so bad, when falling and rolling. It was awlful: it was a month ago. I am starting to get used to the thought I can"t step normal with my left leg. Actually with every day it is getting better-I can almost step on it, without any brace or crutches and I can fold my knee very well. Now the thought of the coming operation on the 9may is scaring me... For me it is quite weird that I will start from 0 even with more pain after the OP. I mean a normal human being is used to the fact that with time his/her body heals, and now actually with time accelerating I will have my knee worse :(. But I don't want to complain, I am sure all of us went through that. And it is so nice that I found people that know the condition I am in. I will be operated in the same hospital and have heard great things about these doctors as well. I am glad I hear the same from you guys! It reduces my nervousness.

So, Katrina, did I understand right that you have to be doing rehab and physio all day long and for 6 weeks after OP? That sounds like horribly much time and effort! Does the accupuncture hurt? I never had that.

Well, hope to hear from you guys something interesting!

Greetings,

Thea

You borrowed a pair of shoes from Imelda Marcos?

(sorry, couldn't resist )

What do you mean? Who is Imelda Marcos?

nevermind, found who she is-very funny...

3 weeks long 8am-6pm a day Thea - but it is working (and the needles don't hurt)

Thanks, Katrina for your answer! Still though seems like an wfully long time to do that... all day long and plus whole 3 weeks like that. My doctor-Reinbeck said that the rehab will be intense only the first two weeks and then it will be 3 times a week just an hour or so. Well, anyway. Say how you are doing. Is your leg getting in shape? I guess the leg is very slim and scary when you get it off the cast after the first two weeks. But i guess in the end we are all gonna look very fit and sexy with all these exercises! Does your insurance cover this rehab? Is it (your insurance) private or gesetzlich?

Hey, I'm privately (and very well) insured, so it was all covered 100%. And yes, shedloads of weight lost even if the method is a bit extreme ha ha but it does work, I'm back in the office with no brace on less than 6 weeks post-op.
My physio is now 2x week plus the home training, but I'm going to start/look for another thread on that topic.