Work and residence permit quick questions

Sudden turn in events and my rather pleasant, calm, cool lifes is gone for a toss again..

the situation as it is right now:
I have a work and residence permit with my company till the end of this month and the company has applied for extenion for the next 6 months. My HR office FORGOT to apply for the work permit and realised that a week ago.. Now im running out of time as I have just 10 days to go and I have to wait for the Work permit first which will take 2 weeks atleast and then only can I apply for the resdience permit.

My HR office gave me a solution for their mistake and told me to just apply for a one week extension of my residence permit by tellin the people at the KVR that my company is doing the needfull for the work permit papers to come through?
Is this possible? has anyone had a waiting period like this? do they give you such a short extension? or will they just kick my small arse out of this coutry

some companies can be so absent minded!

PS sorry im not good at written communication so I hope i get my problem across to u ..im too nervous to check for spelling mistakes as well..sorry

oh and have to mention im a student

Your company's HR should be dealing directly with the KVR and can leave you out of it. More effective that way. If you have to go in personally to sign something, fine, but your company's HR should get you the form, help you fill it out, and make an appointment for you at the KVR (not usually possible but they should try as it's their mistake).

I have to do all the residence papers myself ! please help yourll still want to see this sweet little indian girl at TT events right??

Normally a Work Permit is just a piece of paper and based on that they stamp your Residence Permit... in your passport.

Best thing to do is...go to the KVR at Pocci Strasse...pull a number and speak to someone there and explain the situation. I am sure they will be able to help you.
Try to go early in the morning...7:30 they open I guess...and most of them are in good mood that time

Earlier Arbeitsamt used to issue that paper but now I think KVR does that..not sure.

They might give you an extension for the time being till your workpermit is done...

Try to take a letter from your company..which says that they have applied for your work permit and waiting for it...and intend to employ you further...

all the best...

thanks for the help..yeh i already collected all the letters in big bundle! will go the KVR and help them open the gates..so that they are in a chirpier mood

I am pretty sure that as long as you are in the process of working on getting the extension (ie, have started the process, your deadline passes while they are thinking) you are fine in that inbetween time. Good luck! Ask them about that when you go!

And Yes the most important:
Dont Mention the War

I went through the exact same thing just a month ago. At the KVR, they mentioned a special temporary work permit that is meant exactly for that situation. A Fictionarbeiten-something. It's 20EUR but I'm not sure whether you're allowed to work while waiting for your real permit. Luckily, I didn't need to go through any of that because on the very last day of my previous residence visa, my work permit was finally issued and I got my residence extension.

I took care of it the last day (the day it expired)...no problem

took 1 1/2 hours of mostly sitting around, but...no problem.

your office should also call the KVR and the Arbeitsamt, and see the best most efficent way to speed up the process. My last Work permit extenison was done right on the spot!

i think you should insist your company pay for a holiday in switzerland until they fix it.

I think z0id's experience is way more up to date than mine, but if it's any reassurance, I've had mine extended for a short 3 months lots of times. I've even gone in there after it had expired by about month and they gave me a new one. I however am white and from Canada, so that may have helped influence them. Not saying anything, just know I've never had any of the problems some others of a less snowy colour have complained about.

Make sure to not only take the letter from your boss, but any other papers they might want to see, like your residency registration, bank slips, health card, etc etc.

leute leute, thank you for all the advice...
like NOFX said it took just an hour.. they were really freindly. i asked for only a 2 week extension but they gave it to me for a month!
Im so experienced with all this now i could start a KVR consultancy..any help just PM me!
But trust me going early morning with all smiles is the key to all your problems.they are really nice in the morning, they even asked me whats the best time to fly to Goa ..you can see the smiles wither away as the day goes by..and if u normally have a company backing you ..its no worries.
and as for my company..yeh im on paid leave till they get my work permit!
already booked a ticket to bordeaux
thanks again.

So conclusion: u r gonna see my small arse still around
NOTE: Please dont panic before attack, waste of energy!

I post this early this morning in the old "working permit" thread, but no one has said anything about it. Is it possible that someen provides some info on this. Thank you.

I have a question regarding the period of time that a foreing non-EU student may work in Germany. When I got my residence permit on september the law said explicitly that I may work a maximum of 90 full days or 180 half-days every year. Except on the case of praktika and diplom-arbeit. Recently I heard from some of my fellows that these is no longer the case, that there is a new law that allows non-EU students to work indefinitely as long as the job is directly related to studies. i.e. if you study informatics you may work in a related job, but not as a hotel clerk.
Does anyone has some more info about this?? I need kinda fast answers on this one. I may get an interesting job, but if I can only work for 90 days I'm on a bad spot. Maybe Katrina have some info about this, you always have info about everything!!!

Its pretty simple there.
dont about change in laws but yes if u have a job in a company you can work for 90 full days without a work permit but once u have crossed this period ..the company has to apply for a work permit for you..i dont think any laws have changed as I did this today.. couldnt have changed an hour ago?
So just 3 whole months is quite a bit of time and companies will take u in with no hassle as an intern..
Now if u start working in oct till dec 2005 then u complete the 3 months whole period for that year... then u can continue in jan-march 2006...
its just an option.. so look out for a job starting oct.. if u have hassles with your work permit..

Right. Sorry for resurrecting an old thread but it made more sense than starting a new one. I have a somewhat complex situation and I'd be really appreciative if anyone could offer advice.

I arrived here 21 July and so am rapidly coming to the end of my 90-day tourist visa. I have not applied for a residence permit because I am staying temporarily with a friend, and have not made permanent living arrangements yet (I was holding off until my employment situation had been finalized.) I am going to be interviewing next week for a position with a marketing company, which I believe will be on a permanent rather than freelance basis. Obviously I also do not yet have a work permit, which I believe this company should be aware of (although my CV clearly states that I've been freelancing, I haven't applied for a "freelance" permit because I knew it would prohibit me from taking a permanent position. The position I'm being considered for requires a native English speaker, so although I'm not EU, I don't think obtaining the work permit should be a problem.) If this position with the marketing company does not work out, I'm going to be forced to take on work as an aupair (which I really don't want to do, but I am quickly running out of time and options) and continue to do freelance work on the side.

Here are my questions:

1) Should I go ahead and apply for the residence permit, without knowing the outcome of the marketing job? (I most likely won't know anything definite about it for another couple of weeks.) Chances are that I will not continue living in this flat after three more weeks, but my 90-day period is up on 21 Oct so I don't see that living here without a permit is a very good idea.

2) Assuming that the marketing company does want to hire me (and is willing to apply for the working permit) how long will it take for the permit to come through? Can I, as has been suggested elsewhere on this thread, begin working without actually having the permit?

I'm sorry, I know this was long, confusing and horribly written, but if anyone can help me I'd be really grateful.

Georgia,
Did you not get a new 90 days when you came back in from UK?

I don't know...did I? I came back from the UK on Sept. 26.

I was hired (oh so long ago) by a company that specfically wanted an American (native English speaker) for a contract they had with the US government, I got my own residency permit but I took a note from them explaining why they had to have me. The work permit was no problem after that.

If the Agentur für Arbeit thinks the position can be filled by a EU citizen (English mother tongue) they might be awkward. Make sure there are other requirements which you fulfill as well.

@ sarabyrd
I worried about that, too. I'm hoping that because the client accounts I'd be handling are primarily based in the U.S., this would be sufficient reason for the company to claim that they needed an American. I am actually really nervous because this company has not even asked me about my work status, so it's all gonna have to be discussed during the interview (which I am already terrified about.)

Never fear an interview. Concentrate on your strength, sit up straight and dress conservatively. Mention the work permit as a known necessity and indicate that it's easier to get one if you have a contract in your pocket.

You can usually go to the KVR and get an extension past the 3 months. A friend of mine did that because he was still waiting on some health insurance paperwork and a couple of other things. He said that it wasn't a hassle at all and they gave him a couple weeks extension.

Good luck!

As you've only got a few days until Oct 21 and you've obviously decided to stay in Germany longer than that, I would

1. Go to KVR and try to get an extension of the tourist visa
2. Apply for a residence permit
3. If push comes to shove go for an au pair job, and continue looking for a real job from there

Good luck also for your interview!

@ Anwalt, oli2000
I think the extension is the best way to go. I'm really not ready to apply for the residence permit, since I haven't finalized my living arrangements plus they are going to want to see proof of insurance, which I have held off on obtaining since I am still hoping to work out a deal with my prospective employer @ the marketing firm. If that does not happen, I'll go ahead and take out my own insurance and apply for the permit (and I already have an aupair assignment lined up that I can start 1 Nov, and use their address as my current residence.) I'm just hoping it doesn't come to that...

And thanks for the good wishes, I need all the luck I can get!

for gorgia girl...
Im not sure about having a new 90 days after coming back from the UK but I do know that its easy to get an extension. Say you have been traveling or something like that and have just now began the interview process. I know I got an extension on mine but I cant remember what line I pulled out of my...well I cant remember what I said. My visa guy hates me and still gave me the extension so Im sure there is no problem. Would a month be enough?

I think so. I just need enough time to figure out whether or not this marketing job will work out (actually the interview is officially scheduled for Oct. 24, so I would hopefully know something by the end of this month.) I think I will try to pop over to the KVR early next week, with German-speaking friend in tow, and just tell them exactly what you've said - I've been travelling, I have interviews scheduled but no definite offers of work (the latter part isn't entirely true, but the point is that I need to stall as long as possible.)

When you flew back in from UK I assume you will have a got new stamp in your passport.
This should then start the 90day period over again.
Check what it says on the stamp

Dammit...they didn't restamp my passport in Munich. I'd forgotten about that. I just have the stamp from Heathrow on 24.09.05 (and the two stamps from Amsterdam of course.)

OK!
That is because you flew in from Amsterdam if you had flown directly from London you would have gone through German Immigration but there is free passage between Netherlands and Germany.

@ Rus
I know...but it was midnight when I got back into Munich, I'd spent five hours in Heathrow and two in Schiphol...my brain wasn't working.

Edit: ah, free passage from Netherlands, so it wouldn't have worked anyway. Maybe I'll hitch a ride with you back to the UK this weekend!

Are you sure about this, Rus? I very much doubt it. That would mean all she needs to do is pop over the German border every 90 days (e.g. to non-EU Switzerland) and she can stay here for good. I think in fact it is 90 days per year you're allowed as a tourist (unless you get an extension).

EDIT: Found the answer here at Auswärtiges Amt:


So it is in fact a maximum of 3 months total per half year. Here is also a list of the Schengen states.

Thanks for clarifying this, oli. Looks like I'll be cancelling that UK flight after all...

GG,

As someone who has travelled numerous times between EU and the US, I can tell you with almost 100% certainty that

1. As a US citizen you can stay in any of the Schengen states for upto 90 days only w/o a visa. It doesn't matter how many days you spend in Germany. The total shouldn't exceed 90 days for the entire Shengen states.

2. You can stay upto 90 days within a 6 month period starting from first entry.

3. once your 90 days are used up, you cannot re-enter Schengen states as a vistor for another 3 months. Then it starts all over again.

4. so DO NOT think that every time you enter you are automatically allowed to stay for 90 days. Rus is WRONG.

5. As a US citizen you can stay upto 180 days without any visa only in the UK.

What does all this mean? It means you are going to KVR pronto if you are serious about living here. Once your 90 days are up, you have to leave and if you have no real reason they will not give any extension. If you continue to stay w/o a permit you will run into problems later on. Good luck.

Actually, it's 6 months you have to wait until re-entering a Schengen state (according to Auswärtiges Amt - see my above post).

oli, I have seen that and that is wrong. Somebody made a mistake. You need to wait only 3 months.

Anyone know the best place to ask questions about visas? Im talking someone who knows the laws and deals with this everyday. (and maybe would give help for free)

Does the embassy here do this?

You can always start here.

@ roots
Yeah, I'm definitely serious about staying here, so I am planning on going over to the KVR on Monday. I am hoping that since I do have a job interview scheduled within the next two weeks that they will understand why I am wanting an extension - I don't want to buy health insurance, etc. until I have determined what I'm eligible for through my (potential) employer.

visa to where? The requirements vary from country to country and usually the particular country's embassy/consulate website is the best place to find information.

When I am traveling, I always check this link from US Dept. of State for upto date information about requirements for US citizens.

@Oli
Thats where I looked,read, and then started to worry!

@bonydebbie

You are really lucky, it sounds like you have a great HR department, and had great luck at the KVR.

I had the same situation (company screwed up arbeitserlaubnis application). I was told to go home till it was sorted out as the company were liable for a 250,000 euro fine for employing somebody without the correct permit. In the end the company tried to turn the balme on me and I was left (IMO) 2 months pay out of pocket which im still battling to get back.

Perhaps if my german was better, OR the people at the KVR were friendly at atleast 1 of the 10 times i was there, OR if my non-existant HR botherd to ask the blatantly obvious, I would have found out about this temporary 20€ "paperwork in progress" permit.

Nonetheless...thanks for the info. Another good argument as to why my company should backpay me...though i'd wager more money on monkey flying out of my arse than that happening.

If anyone else has problems with companys screwing up work permits and not taking responsibility for it...PM me!

@ Nicole33
You mentioned that you got an extension - were you on a tourist visa at the time? Or did you just come in without one (as is permissible for a U.S. citizen to do)? Also, how long of an extension did you get? Is this a variable thing (i.e. depends on the mood of the person at the KVR) or is there a set time limit?

I got an extension because I hadnt filled out the paper work in time. (and sorry I was on a tourist visa at the time) I was working already, but didnt have the permitt yet. We waited to long and then it was about to run out. Since I had all my paperwork but not the right stamps on it yet they had no problem giving me an extension.

@roots
I have visa questions about me getting to stay here. I need to talk to a person one on one...ask questions. Best place is the government building??

An update on my situation: after three hours at the KVR, I basically got what I wanted - a piece of paper that allows me to stay in Germany until 16.01.06. The catch is that I cannot legally earn money/hold a job until I return to the Arbeitsagentur with an employer's letter. My understanding is that when (and if) I'm issued the work permit, the residence permit is automatically approved. So I've basically got three months to find suitable work before I'm back at square one.

The guy I spoke with was relatively helpful, but I would have been totally lost if I hadn't had my native German roommate with me to translate. All four people I dealt with had not the slightest desire or inclination to speak English, which I can't blame them for, but could they just have been a little less rude about it?? The last guy I talked with responded to my polite "Sprechen Sie Englisch?" with a smug smile and, in German, "Since you're in Germany you should really try to speak a little bit of German." I was so tempted to reply (in German, of course) "Okay - you, sir, are a wanker." But then I reconsidered and just let my roommate explain my situation.

I know this is ranting and a bit off-topic, but I needed to vent. I know I need to learn German, and I'm doing the best I can - however, after three months, I'm a long ways from mastering the language and I'd appreciate not being made to feel like a total idiot. If I ask you if you speak English and you aren't able (or aren't willing) to do so, a simple "No" is all that's required. No need to sneer and just generally be a fuckwit.

In conclusion, thanks to everybody on the thread who offered advice.

/end rant. Thank you for listening.

I think he was right. You should try to speak a little more. He's probably never been abroad and you expect him to be able to speak better English than you can German and you've been here 3 months. I wouldn't call it arrogant. Why must he sweat it out when you don't feel like it. You're the one who wants the permit.

Ulysses, how did I know that you'd respond to this post? Haven't you been argumentative enough lately?

I never said anything about being "arrogant". Please do not attempt to make this into something it's not. I said I just needed to vent and I did. I realised they would most likely not speak English and that is why I brought a native German speaker.

She's right Ulysses, she noted something about a smug smile and a sneer. Nuthin about arrogant.

PS: It seems people get treated like fuckwits when the need help from the government, any government. Its not a german thing, or a language thing, its a government thing.

For the sake of convenience on my side i.e. lazy to try to speak German, I always ask "Sprechen Sie Englisch?" Most times I get a one-word, "Nein!" but a few times, I was "lectured". One good example was the guy saying when he goes to England, he does not expect anyone to speak German, including the service industry, the likes of immigration offices and shops.

So I think to save this language incompatibility frustration - both for the one trying to express his/her views and the one trying to listen/understand - I think it might not be a bad idea to allow only those who can converse in the native language into the country afterall. One will not have the excuse of not being able to get what he/she wants because of language "deficiency". Most importantly, not become frustrated (thus, the need to rant in forums) like georgiagirl even though she got what she wanted - the visa extension to continue living here in search of a job!

I read smug as being arrogant. I agree with you JML. It's called bureaucracy. Point is, when I came to Germany, I had to open a bank account, get a job, find accommodation and got to the KVR for a residence and work permit and I had to do everything in German as soon as I arrived and I didn't have the help of German speakers. I never once began with "Sprechen Sie Englisch" because I saw it as a challenge and I tell you it was hard. But it was worth it. They were all patient with me and my shit German and I tell you I was shit in my job interviews. Three months later though my German was a lot better. Why? Because I never started a conversation with "Sprechen Sie Englisch", no matter what the circumstances.