Lets invite Michael Moore to Munich's Amerika Haus

Shame on you, Mr. Nichols!

My favorite Michigander, (Translation: Michael Moore, 51), the Oscar award-winning documentary filmmaker, was found not guilty by a trial court of having defamed the character of one of the individuals he interviewed for the film Bowling for Columbine.

Michigan farmer, weapon, and explosive enthusiast James Nichols, brother of Oklahoma City bombing co-conspirator Terry Nichols (+ 2004), had sued Moore for defamation of his character in the 2002 Moore documentary about America's facinationwith weapons, demanding some US$ 20 million (€ 16.6 million) in compensatory and punitive damages..

In the view of the presiding judge at the US District Court in Detroit, who threw out Nichol's complaint, Moore's comments in regard to his Terry Nichols were entirely proper.

Recently Michael Moore sent an e-mail to subscribers to his list, to wit:

http://www.michaelmoore.com/

...asked if his readers have any suggestions as to what activities he could/should engage in in the months to come.

I had suggested to him that he might – as a fellow Eagle Scout – consider working as a merit badge counselor for the “Citizenship in the Nation� and “Citizenship in the World� merit badges at the upcoming 2005 National Boy Scout Jamboree at Fort Lee, Virginia.

In light of recent events in the German-American community in Munich, I think we need a return visit to Munich. A suitable venue might be the “Amerika Haus� in conjunction with its 60th anniversary in 2006.

What do you think? If you agree and we get enough responses, we could forward them to Mr. Moore.

i read a couple of his books, which I found very surprising and interesting. I always wanted to ask an American what they taught of his books without getting into a huge political debate. Do you find his books to be truthful? I would be very interested in going to see him speak, if Canadians are allowed

Easy enough. I skipped his books. I saw (one) of his movies, have seen many of his interviews and I think he is a twat.

The term "douche bag" comes to mind when I hear his name. Believe it or not, I'm not even a conservative.

I thought Bowling for Columbine was great. Stopped reading Stupid White Men because I thought it was over the top and none of the facts were backed up. My problem with Moore is really that he just makes fun of people without really trying to understand why people think and behave the way they do and offer some solutions to the problem from that point of view. I agree with him, Canada - at least from a crime point of view - is great, but unfortunately most of the world is not Canada.

stupid white men was actually the book I was thinking of when I asked. I was reading the book and couldn't believe it. I liked Bowling for Columbine. he is right about one thing -- Canada is great

I don't know too much about America or Canada for that matter, but I would definitely be inclined to believe, that an opinion from someone in michigan would be very different to someone's in Texas. Perhaps a better contrast would be NY vs the latter.

I am not into discussing politics with people at all but was always curious what others, esp. Americans thought of him. To those that answered thank you!!!

I'm from Michigan, and like I posted above, douche.

I can give you both. Lets see Ive checked with my NY self, Texas self (equal time spent in both), Illinois self, SF and Boston self (equal time spent in both) and yep its unanimous...we all think he's a twat.

Our german self gives a nod to our (relatively fellow) non-conservative for the old school use of the word "douche bag".

holy jml you get around!!!
do most of the people you associate with feel the same?

I concur with all of jml's remarks on this thread (thought I haven't been to Boston, but nearby).

Hey! Look on the bright side. All us non-Americans really enjoyed him taking the piss... even if he still thinks the bloody Saudis did it. Sure, he went off half-cocked. But, I laughed.

Mind you. That awful TV Nation thing he did on Channel 4 in the 90's was utter shite. Yeah, on second thoughts let's get Robin Williams.

I think he has good points and bad points. Bottom line for me is I think he is a sensationalist. Although one of my all-time favorite Michael Moore stunts is when he went around to various auto makers. He asked the CEOs of each company if they could change the oil in the cars that they make. Only one knew how and did it.

I know a lot of automotive engineers that can't change the oil in their cars.

I've never met one.

DO alot of people think that I get around? No. At least they dont say so out loud.

I know some people that find him
- believable and respect his work. I have to say this is mostly Germans though.
- 'funny', 'provoking', though even the self proclaimed liberals amongst this group do think he's OTT
- others consider him to be a 'douche bag'or a 'twat' ... kind of gnat like really
- last but not least the people that don't think of him period, ie he's not worth wasting the brain cells on. I suppose I myself am really more in this category these days.

I think MM has his place in society, as long as people don't confuse him for a real journalistic individual and his films as real documentaries. Having said that, I do give credit to MM as a business and PR person. He failed at making standard hollywood type movies but he's made quite a name, reputation and bank account for himself doing what he does, whatever I or anyone else calls it.

PS: do like the 'holy jml' part though

John McCain summed Michael Moore in one word: disingenuous.

disingenuous:
1) lacking in candor
2) giving a false appearance of simple frankness
3) insincere or calculating

Most people who like him do so because he tells them what they want to hear. Falling for his shit is no different than falling for Rush Limbaugh's. They both have agendas and will distort the truth, or submit half-truths, as a means to that end.

Reality lies somewhere in between.

I'll throw in my two cents: I'm extremely liberal...and yet agree on the above douche bag and twat statements...

His movies are just retarded...

I'd definitely go to see him!

I agree that the guy is annoying and his "documentaries" cannot be considered as true documentaries but he did succeed in getting a lot of people to view Bush and his goonies, the American media, etc. much more critically than they (probably) would have.

I think his methods, although somewhat trashy, are clever. Take a look at American culture- nothing gets any attention anymore unless it is sensationalist. If the news in the US were presented in German ARD or ZDF style, you wouldn't get many viewers. If Moore had made a more standard documentary, based on facts presented neutrally, he never would have received the attention he did, and neither would the issues he was addressing. He used the media's main weapon (sensationalism) against itself.

I agree with the post above.. it seems to have become quite "uncool" to say you like Michael Moore these days..

He is over the top and sensationalist, but his last movie showed and made some excellent points.. I think he believes in what he does, and I think when he mixed politics and sarcasm/humour he's actually reasonably funny..

So it looks like we agree, MM would make a great, controversial speaker for Munich. Love him or hate him, this thread has proven that there's interest.

If you don't like Moore, come along and find out why. You can always heckle - in fact, please do heckle since it's fun for everyone else. If you like Moore then you know you will be in for a treat.

Bring him over Big Ben!

michael moore is a classic case of success breeding laziness and ego.

His early documentaries were very good as he was simply asking questions and letting you arrive at the answers. "Roger and me" is an excelent piece of fringe filmmaking and quite moving

"Bowling for Columbine" was a great piece of filmmaking and deserved the awardsit got. In it he asks questions to arrive at answers. He also invented what i would call "docutainment" with this movie.

Everthing since is rubbish. He has stoped investigating and starts preaching. ie he now believes he has the answers. Fueled by ignorant admiration he fails to see the complexity in the world opting only for the black and white view. In that respect hes as bad as his hatend enemy bush.

"Fahrenheit 911" is simply a vehicle for an anti bush agenda, as is the book "Stupid white men".

I disagree, I would not want to see him here. He is a "journalist" for the MTV viewers. He has no substance and twists the truth worse than the people he is trying to defame, all to make a point.I say, invite an intellectual to describe real facts and leave MM for the MTV crowd.

I think Michael Moore is the perfect figure for people to let out their hatred towards Americans and still look "liberal" in the deal and that sucks. It is the only vehicle left for them to choose and not look right-winged or conservative. He has given "being liberal" a bad name with his reactionary populism. It is a similar phenomina to NeoNazis walking around with pro-Palestinian headscarves wrapped around their necks, how bizarre! You have people that disagree with many of Michael Moore's views but still like him because he attacks his own.

Maybe he started out as an objective individual but he sure has become something else. Yet there is a place for him in the world just like for any other political speaker in a free society. The problem with him is that he is indeed as dangerous to the public as those against which he himself speaks. The uncritical observer laps up his words and feel good about doing so. He has made people believe they are doing "the right thing" by believing all his words and being allowed to judge a whole nation or let out their hatred without having to think for themselves.

I would still go to one of his talks if he were to come here, just out of interest. So bring him on!

not sure all of us. I guess some bits were amusing and if he had just presented it as a fun thing it would probably have worked, but trying to pass it off as factual documentary was wrong I thought, and no better than those he was trying to criticise.

I say if he comes we should start a documentary about him, and when he speaks we should stand up and interrupt him as he did during the Roger and me film (which I enjoyed-his only one-except the SouthPark clip during Bowling for Columbine)

We could always send Moore this thread and the message "come and have a go if you think you're hard enough".

Anyway, isn't he Canadian?

What I was bothered with BFC, was the fact that I was here in Germany and saw the response of Germans to the film. As an American, I realised that he is taking extreme examples and then setting them up to be even more extreme, but the German's I spoke with, thought everything was completely normal. I was told more than once, that any bank in the US, it is possible to get a rifle when you start an account. And a larger problem is that the Germans here really thought it was a documentary and not a fictional exagerration.

I agree. As far as world politics or occurances go, the majority of the US is in the dark. Only if you read the big papers- NY Times, Washington Post, etc., do you get news of any relavance. Most people watch CNN or MSNBC for their updates, and as far as I'm concerned, you can get the same info with more insight from Jon Stewart. It's sad, really. I liked Michael Moore's movies, but it's good to see that not everyone here fell for them. That distinguishes us from those who never leave their hillbilly hometown. Thank god Toytown is full of intelligent people who realize there are two sides to every story.

But anyways, I'd go see him, if he came to speak.

agree with the problem that people take him too "factualy". the guy is a populist, and although he does raise valid points, does little to foster understanding. i actualy enjoyed "stupid white men" and saw it as a diatribe against THE WHOLE political elite not just bush. the only problem though if he came here is that way too many germans would go along and support him because sadly here they believe bush is the source of all evil and MM a balanced and truthful reporter.

Thanks to Michael Moore, the number of Europeans (and Americans for that matter) who think they are experts on US gun laws is incredible.

Example: Read the discourse between Tormentor (pseudonym I'm sure) and I in this classic thread.

I do see some good in what he is trying to do, but also, I think he is an utter twat. Also needs to shave and wash his face now and again.
If he wasn't so blatantly one-sided in what he does I might respect him more.

Not only was I extremely pissed off because my german and scandinavian friends used his books and films as FACTS when saying negative things about Americans... but I was more shocked and upset due to the actual Columbine footage. I had never seen that footage before and it brought back the memories of being locked down in my high school and having to have our bags checked every morning, having to wear IDs, as well as the numerous bomb threats that happened afterwards.

I disagree. Michael Moore was preaching to the choir. He didn't get anyone to think critically about Bush and Co. who wasn't already doing so. He just fueled the existing distaste for Bush.

I agree 100% with bucket06's comments above, though I've only seen Bowling for Columbine (which I enjoyed) and Fahrenheit 911 (which was propaganda).

Hey! You're only allowed to say 'Michigander' if you're from Michigan! Apologize immediately.

I would definitely show up for Michael Moore, but good luck getting him. He won't even answer your request, I bet.

M.

I'd rather see Jello Biafra.

Say what you want about MM, he has never, to my knowledge, been successfully sued for anything said in any of his books or movies. Considering that the US is probably the most litigious country in the world, that's saying a lot.

As far as failing at 'making standard hollywood type movies', that's a big whatever...

M.

I agree that MM is sensational and over the top but I still find him amusing and entertaining and would love to hear him speak. If someone starts a petition or wants to send him a letter inviting him to speak in Munich, I'll sign it!

I'd say invite him over.. but if the AH makes ANY $$ on the deal have MM do his bit somewhere else... Time to let AH die out, then perhaps the Directors will get a clue.. But then again they are German...

Oo! Oo! Oo! Me too. WHEN???

Last time I saw the DK's was in Brighton about '86 - fucking 'A'!!!

I like Michael Moore. For the most part, he tells the truth, and right-wingers hate the truth...it´s like a wooden cross.

Conservatives have promulgated the great lie that liberals somehow control the media that conservatives OWN. So basically, liberals can never get their points out. Often, conservative producers put scarecrow liberals on set to discredit real ones.

Michael Moore has found a way to bypass their virtual Big Brother media establishment. He sneaks his message in the backdoor. And the conservative "reality makers" don't like Moore poking pins into their balloons of bullshit.

However, they have one great problem. They cannot attack Moore's message directly. Having a real debate would involve repeating Moore's message. The LAST thing they won't people to do is to show Moore's obese figure yelling and waving at the entrace to the plato's cave. The conservatives will do whatever they can to keep their sheep staring mindlessly at the scary shadows on the wall so they'll be happy to hand away their liberties and freedoms.

So instead they attack Moore himself. They do everything they can to keep people from seeing Moore's films. They make up spurrious propositions about what Moore says that completely disresemble Moore's message.

I read the commentary on "Bowling for Columbine" before I saw the movie. I thought to myself that Moore must be a performance artist and that "Bowling for Columbine" was full of tricks and self-contradictory editorials.

Well, than I SAW "Bowling for Columbine" on cable. Guess what??? The descriptions I READ about the film didn't resemble it in one bit.

In short, they lie about Moore. Moore is distressing because deep down he is an ideologue with a strong message. The message is that the powers that be are trying to scare us into a state of dependence. Dependence on "security", dependence on "products", even dependence on the so called news media that can tell us when we're safe and unsafe.

Well, we only have ourselves to blame. Do like I did 8 years ago - throw the fuckin' TV out the window and don't look back. It's a good start to recapturing a life. Next, don't label yourselves. I ain't no liberal. I'm just fucked off. Infotainment, advertainment, blip-ads, peer pressures... fuck 'em all. You is what you is and you just gotta go with it. What brand are you addicted to (not you personally BTW yoyo)? If some fuckin' company wants their logo on my shirt then that's advertising... and I want my dues for carrying that logo. Corporatisim only works when you buy their crap. Although impossible to avoid, there are ways and means to lower your consumption dependencies. If you work in marketing or advertising you are a waste of a life... selling shit that nobody needs to the gullible.

Now gimme my Coca-Cola so's I can inject it into my eyes.

Hang on a second!!! I wonder if I can re-hash all that into a song?

@yoyo

I didn't get the impression that he sneaks his message in the backdoor. I would rather say he goes through the front door, followed by a tv-crew and brings his message across with a large, wooden hammer.

"I was born by Lake Michigan, and I wish and wish again that I was back at the place where I was born..."

With the exception of hot summer days when decomposing alewives on the beaches attract deer flies, mosquitoes and GM five-legged frogs. Kein Wunder Germans had difficulty continuing the "Biergarten" tradition over there.

By the way, where where the Michiganders last Friday night when award-winning author Nicolas DELBANCO, Professor at Ann Arbor, was in MUC to read from his most recent book THE VAGABONDS at a Schwabing art gallery? Nick is cool (photo enclosed), and shares my obsession with the life of Benjamin Thompson, a.k.a. "Count Rumford."

A man of many talents, Thompson designed the "Englischer Garten", eliminated famine in this fair city and saved MUC from certain destruction during the Napoleonic Wars... Thompson was regarded by President Roosevelt II as one of the three great Americans besides Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Franklin.

Nick Delbanco recently completed a screenplay for a major motion picture on the life of Benjamin Thompson in Munich.

Nuff said for now; certainly more and "Moore" to follow...

That's a good point. He was indeed preaching to the choir and did fuel the existing distaste for Bush. I still think it's a positive thing, though, because in the US, there are so many people with opinions who never do anything about it or are afraid to even voice them. I think Moore helped to get more people to open their mouths and stir the shit a little.

Still, I think he did succeed in changing the minds of some non-choir members as well (although probably not THAT many), and probably stirred some of those people who hadn't really thought about anything political in their lives (and there are plenty of those in the US) into giving things a thought. I know that as a direct result of watching Moore's movies, a deep-south Republican I know who had only voted Republican his whole life (without really having reasons to back up his choice other than "that's what I've always voted") decided to go Democrat in the last presidential election. And I'd doubt if there aren't lots of similar stories out there.

Anyway... I'd probably go see Moore if he came to Amerika Haus, but if it were between him and Jello Biafra, I'd have to go for Jello.

BTW I just listened to an archived episode of "This American Life" on NPR the other day. There was a segment about how Jello Biafra was taken to court for obscenity... pretty interesting. Here's a link for those interested... the episode is called:
Know Your Enemy
March 25, 2005
Episode 285 - Act Two

Bad idea. First of all, Michael Moore charges upwards of $20,000 for appearances. Plus, he's ridiculous. When he appeared at Utah Valley State College last year just before the elections, he showed up an hour late and then spent the next 40 minutes telling jokes and showing fake campaign commericals. What a waste of money and time.

How bout Dubblya and Mr Moore in a Mud Wrestling war? Best of 3 though to ensure a worthy winner...

celebrity death match would be cooler don´t ya think?
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