Summer & winter tires vs all season tyres

I know it is very typical for Germans to run Summer Winter tires, but I was wondered if only Germans or across the board in Europe?

I've been debate whether to go with Winter Summer or all season tires. I've been leaning towards All Seasons becuase previous to moving here I'd never heard of anyone ever running summer winter tires before. I don't think you can even buy them anymore in the US.

the concept doesn't really exist in the UK but certainly does in Scandinavia (where in fact the winter tyres usually have metal studs in them - which is not allowed in Germany)

Go with the summer/winter option. In the winter you'll get better traction and drive more safely with the winter tires. When I got here in January I didn't think it would make a big difference until it snowed and I had serious traction problems. Would slide or get stuck while other guys around had no problems. If you get in an accident in the snow and are running summer tires you can be found at fault.

I have all seasons and have never had a problem. I drive quick enough, but not recklessly. The brand is goodyear, the model true vector. Decent enough and less hassle with all the changing and storing of the seasonal tyres.

insurance companies in Germany can be real b******s! If you are involved in an accident and don't have the correct tyres on, they may refuse to pay out.

The ADAC also recommends the Winter/Summer combination. They are much safer than All-Weather which are a comprimise in all situations. Don't gamble with your life for the sake of a few bucks and half an hour to change them, tyres are probably the most important safety feature of your car.

@Uncle: So you're the guy causing the hold-ups en route to the ski lifts - because you ain't got any grip with your all-year tires.

Living out in the boonies, each winter we see plenty of Münchners who can hardly keep their car on the road in slippery, snowy, slushy conditions. You might be OK on Leopoldstrasse but it's another story on country roads.

Last winter some friends from the UK came to visit - in their Subaru Impreza bastard turbo rally whatever. It's 4WD and they had fitted new all-year tires in the UK a week before coming out. The Scooby couldn't make it up our driveway, no matter how gentle on the gas. My rear-wheel drive car - with winter tires - makes it up no problems at all.

The net result was that I left 20 minutes later in the mornings, and still got to the ski slope at the same time.

Another point is, how many Kilometers do you drive? I do about 25000km per year, so over a three year period I cover 75000km, which I could never do on one set of tyres. With a set of winter tyres as well I manage ok. So the only extra expense is a set of steel wheels, which are not expensive, plus an hour changing them over. They are of course much safer in the winter.

It is not just their performance on snow where they outperform summer or all-round tyres, it is also in cold weather. I don't have the comparison for All-rounders but Winter tyres have better grip and significantly shorter breaking distances than summer tyres when the temperature drops below 7 degrees C, even on a dry surface. Winters here are consistantly below freezing, often in double digits. All-rounders aren't really designed for this kind of weather.

From what I heard (and coming from infamous Scandinavia I should know about these things) All-year tires are a sales trick. A fancy name put on summer tires to up sales. Different rubber types react differently to temperature, and with the huge temperature shifts in Bavaria (from -20C to +30C or so) you really need two sets of tires!

/manmower

Although I used to be a mechanic/tyre fitter I've never actually seen winter tyres before moving here. Is the winter tyre compound softer or harder when compared to all season tyres? Are they rated to a lower speed than all season tyres too?

Winter tyres are generally rated to a lower speed than summer tyres but you can get them that will do 250km/h. The compound remains softer (if i remember correctly) at lower temps, allowing for greater grip.

@OG

I thought as much but wasn't 100% sure. I tried looking at what rating they were but couldn't find anything (will have a better look later). A tyres rating is designed not just for speed but for acceleration and deceleration (under braking). The softness would surely help in winter, and summer actually if you wanted an ultra smooth ride but they'd wear quicker than all season/summer tyres.

If you see the photo i posted you'll notice that Canadian winters can be pretty brutal at times, yet no one uses winter summer tires.

The only real problem with CDN winters is that it takes a snow fall or two to get everyone used to winter driving, extra time to break etc.

Ofcourse lots of snow ice means loads of business for the body shops, something I know from experience

I will run winter tires,rather than all season tires only for insurance purposes.

why take the chance.

Good choice, but the insurance aside if you go skiing in the winter then the winter tyres tend to be a must have...I would get some chains as well better to have some in the boot and not need them than to need them and not have them, it can be cold sleeping in the car waiting for the snow plough to arrive

Like I said, never had a problem. Plenty of grip. As long as you don't drive like a prick and know the limitations of the tyres then there's no issue innit?

Disagree, having been stuck behind too many M- plated cars on the minor, untreated roads up to the ski lifts. You don't need to "drive like a prick" for summer tires to lose their grip up a 1:4 gradient when there's compacted snow.

All I'll say is that in my experience running winter tyres all year round is not a good idea. Firstly, winter tyres are designed to compact the snow and gain more traction. Summer tyres disperse water from the area of the tread.
My experience in running winter tyres was that I aqua planed on the motorway in the UK ending up in the middle lane still doing 80mph. My wife nearly killed me anyway but my 1 year old son was sat inthe back which makes it all the more scary. The other cars on the road were doing the same speed and none of them had a problem!

I have never had a problem. But I don't drive up 1:4 gradients when's there compacted snow. Those you are driving behind either do not know the limitations of the tyres or are driving like pricks. You could agree on this point perhaps?

You had come down to 80mph on a UK road where the limits are 70mph? with a one year old in the car? shame on you.

usually both. People who don't fit winter tyres usually do NOT know the limitations of the tyres, or worse, they do and just ignore them hoping they can get away with it. And because of this they are driving like pricks.

Not having winter tyres in Bavaria is dangerous, whether it be on compacted snow or dry roads, which is why insurance companies often refuse to pay out if you have an accident. I reckon 90% of the time or more you probably can get away with it. I am not going to risk tho, I would rather pay the 30 bucks each season than risk a multi-thousand euro claim cos i got involved in an accident.

I bought my car used so the front tires are worn to the replacement mart, so I will be buying winter tires, but I'm not going to bother with extra rims, I drive so much that I'll be replacing the tires every 2 years or so anyways.

One question any idea how to tell if the tires are winter or summer?

We had a leased vehicle that we put all season tires on,when we gave the car back the dealer claimed that code was wrong for all season tires.

Americans (and Canadians) run only all season tires, but on the other hand you drive a hell of alot faster here than in Canada. So better tyres do make sense.

The local Obi is selling winter tyres for 35€ for 14inch.

anyone knows where the best place to buy winter tires

I'm just checking the web now. Obi has 14 inch tires for 35€ obviously they aren't top brands.

ReifenDirekt.de has information in English.

A quick check for 185 65 R14 rated 160 there is a 100€ price difference between the cheapest and the most exspenive tires, does brand make much of a difference.

Rims cost about 50€ a piece

Rims are so cheap? DO you maybe mean hub caps? If not, can you post a link to the rims, as we need a spare set for the winter tyres too.

I bought 4 similar sizes tyres about this time last year from whatever the garage is next to walmart - pitstop perhaps? The tyres and the fitting came to about 300 E I think.

With tyres I think you generally get what you pay for - and if you're doing a lot of driving, presumably on the autobahns, do you want to trust your life to a set of remoulds? They also wear a bit quicker.

Having said that, if they're sold they must be fit for purpose I guess...

There is quite a difference between the quality of different tires, and it's not always related to price. It is definitely worth taking the time to investigate. Tire Rack is an American tire seller, but it has lots of user reviews and ratings of all the major brands. You might not find all the same tires as here, but you should find most.

If you can read German the ADAC have just given out the results of their winter tyre test. Winter Tyres

there is tyretest.com as well I just took a glance at it.

I don't know who these North Americans are who claim that North Americans don't use winter/summer tires, but I (Canadian) have ALWAYS used winter and summer tires, as have many of my friends (Americans and Canadians). Even in Canada they made a huge difference. Sure there are lots of Canadians who don't use them, and there are also parts of the states where it makes zero sense to have winter tires, but in most of Canada, the northern states, and bavaria they definitely do make sense. If you're keeping your car for at least a couple more years, its a very minor difference in price as well.