Must foreigners carry a passport at all times?

I moved to Munich on monday this week, and am slowly getting used to the way things are done over here. (I think it is going to take a couple of years)

There is one thing this is a little confusing though. I have been told by the relocation company that I have to carry my passport with me at all times. This seams to be crazy.

Apparently the police can stop me whenever they like and demand to see it. Is that really true?

Is there an alternative document that I can carry with me instead.

(I'm going to the states in September and I know how crappy they get when your passport looks like it has been in your pocket for 3 months)

HEEEEELLLLLLLPPPPPP!
Bob

Crosslink by admin: Must one carry ID at all times when in Germany? Answer: No

I'd love to know this as well!

i do NOT carry my passport with me EVER (unless i am crossing international borders or need it specifically for something).

For British citizens (haven't looked to see what you are) there is NO legal alernative. However, the replacement cost (and hassle involved) is much higher than paying a fine for not having it (which, incidently, has never happened to me).

edit: ok, just looked, you are a British Citizen just like me. Which means legally you SHOULD, practically, though, you SHOULD NOT.

Until we get IDs cards in Britain, we have no practical way of proving our identity.

I don't carry mine and haven't for 8 years.

Technically you do need to carry ID with you at all times - as do the Germans with their little picture ID cards. We don't have those, so a passport or perhaps picture driving licence is required. I never carry mine and have never been asked. I wouldn't bother if I were you. You could try a photocopy of it in your wallet??

I was never asked for my passport and neither were any of my freinds but as u go past the people that police actually ask for passports, they are a whole weird bunch that always stand out of the crowd...if u do not belong to that club than u dont need to carry your passport

In other cases if u r caught without a ticket on any trains and dont have a permanent residence than they ask u for your passport..

I just carry my driving license with me everywhere ! When I was on the train to Salzburg, some secret service police men asked to see our passports, I explained I did not have it with me, but showed them my driving license and this was OK.

I don't carry mine with me and have encountered police three times and they accepted a photo id or i carry a photocopy of my passport in my wallet. Never a problem, but technically you are required to have one with you at all times.

Never seen a policeman in 18 months out here in the sticks. I could drink-drive naked on my motorbike and never get stopped.

@bonydebbie

My evil twin brother, that also lives in Munich.. does he qualify?

I have heard this also but I do not carry mine for a couple of reasons:
1) fear of losing it and having to replace it
2) it gets mangy looking

I have never been stopped (I'm blond and green eyed) and, yeah, if you belong to 'that weird group of people who always seems to get asked' (BoneyDebbie is so politically correct), you should probably carry it.

Just bring it with you when crossing borders(Austria, France Switzerland, etc)

You have to have it when you go to Switzerland, not so with Austria, but can't hurt when you are travelling. As for Munich, if you carry your passport around with you it is just begging to get lost/stolen and that will be way more hassle than the polizei will give you for not having it. Carry a driver's license and a reduced photocopy of your registration and you will be fine.

Quick Note to UK people:

If you ask nicely you can have up to 3 current passports. My father used to have two as he travelled between unfriendly countries quite often - having an Israeli stamp in your passport can cause major problems elsewhere. (although again if you ask nicely in Israel they will stamp a removal piece of paper).

Ok, but what does it say in the law? Where's Kathrina? She should know!

Lots of people have posted mis-information on this topic. So here's the definitive answer:

No, you don't have to carry your passport with you at all times when in Germany.

Details: the police have the right to ask you to prove your identity (i.e. name and address, nothing more). The easiest way to prove this, of course, is by showing your passport. If you don't have a passport then another form of ID will suffice, provided the police officer deems it credible. If you have no ID at all then you are asked for your name and address. The officer then radios this through to the Zentrale. If he thinks your story is credible, and the details match up with their computer, then you are OK. If your story is not credible they may escort you home and demand to see your passport there.

The only requirement is that, one way or another, you should be able to prove your name and address. You are not allowed to exist in Germany if your name and address is not registered. If you are not resident in Germany, then your ID must be in the database of travellers who have recently passed into Germany through customs. If you are unable to prove your ID, you will be held in custody until they either give you an ID or decide which country to deport you to.

BadDoggie wrote a post here: Carrying ID in Germany. His information is usually good. But unfortunately, in this case, it is mis-information.

To my knowledge nobody has ever been fined for not carrying ID. If you know of a case where someone has, and you have credible references, please post them.

Thanks Bob!

Well, I don't always carry around my passport, but I always have some kind of ID with my picture on it with me all the time (at least my student MVV ticket with my picture and address on it), then I always a photocopy of my passport + visa on me.

Sorry, Editor Bob, i hate to argue but Paragraph 40 of the AuslG says otherwise. You ARE legally required to posses an ID card (or passport) and also to show this on demand, which basically means you have to carry it with you.


This is actually the same requirement as PersAusG Paragraph 1 for Germans.

"show ID on demand" does not mean you have to carry it with you.

It means that they may escort you home for you to fetch it.

Bob's right.

Gen's right too.

Well, no one wants to be escorted home by the police for this, I'm sure. Looks bad in front of the neighbors, and will just prove everything they've privately thought about foreigners.
One way to solve this is to carry your old, cancelled passport. I've been assured at the US embassy that, though the canceled passport is no longer valid for travel, it still serves as valid ID. I never had to test this advice with the police, but I do show it at the cash-register when using my credit-card.

Just make a photo copy (Color is better) of the picture/data page of your Passport (and any current DE permits in the PP) and keep it in your wallet. If they still want to see the real thing then they can escourt you home.

ID = Carried
Passport carrying problems = Fixed

So whats the problem now?

I still stand by my post.


The lack of anecdotal evidence does not prove your statement. The law clearly states the fines and cops will not go back to Westend with me to see my passport if I happen to be in Berlin at the time they stop me.

I've already written about my own experiences and that most government-issued IDs are acceptable. However, it's the policeman's prerogative to demand a passport -- on the spot -- and it's likewise his decision to fine you should he want. As OG noted with §40, the law clearly states "vorzulegen, auszuhändigen und vorübergehend zu
überlassen" -- make available (on-hand), surrender (hand over) and temporarily leave in the possession of.

The laws also make no mention of "innerhalb XX Tage" meaning the law is applicable immediately upon request.

If you don't have your passport with you, it's unlikely that you have your Erlaubnisse or Meldebescheinigung either and again, though they can demand those papers cops will normally take your ID and call in to get confirmation. And then let you go.

But they could make life difficult and more expensive should they wish to. The laws are pretty clear.

woof.

No government official accepts a photocopy of any legal document because photocopies can be easily forged. You can try it but promise me you'll write about the experience after you hand that to a cop. It might be possible to use a notarised copy of the passport pages but I wouldn't spend the money on the stamp -- you'd have to make new ones every few months as the paper started breaking apart.

Expired ID may be good for non-governmental usage but it's normally not accepted either immediately after expiration (passport at border, for example) or within two months (NY driver's license) to a year of expiration.

woof.

Edit: returned incorrectly pulled quote from right window and thread.

I agree.

@EB: I think the suggestion that it is 'okay' to walk around with empty pockets is bad advice, and should not be relied upon even if it is the letter of the law.

Even more so these days...

Well, I have a german driver's license...and always carry it...which I'd think would be good enough for most cops...(never been asked for ID of any kind)...

but my gf won't let me go without my passport, anywhere. ...the main reason is I'm a tour guide and so am @ the Hauptbahnhof and around the touristy areas all the time and could be asked for my work papers and passport at any time. I wish I could get by with just my license, as I always worry about my passport, but this is 2 years now that I've carried it everywhere...and...hmm...*sigh*

more beer.

I have used a photocopy of my passport the three times I was asked by the police for my personalausweiß. It was always used with supporting photo id. They looked at the photocopy and one time called in my details, but they accepted it. I agree that they can determine how strict they want to be, and they were lenient with me. One time was when I was pulled over by undercover cops on my bicycle and given a breathalyzer.

Thanks to everyone for replying... It is clearly not just a little confusing for only me.

So from my understanding so far. I should be ok to carry nothing at all but in the interest of keeping the suspicions of my neighbours to a minimum, I should at least carry something.

So now instead of my pockets being full of just my passport it appears that I might be able to scrape by with my out of date drivers licence, my old out of date passport, a photocopy of my new passport, a copy of my new drivers licence and a copy of all these german certificates that I have that are basically still greek to me. Failing that I'll have to risk carrying my actual passport.

I have to say that I think I'm going to wing it. I don't know my neighbours yet anyway.

Cheers
Bob (not the editor)

I've lived in Germany for 15 years and have never had my passport with me when I've been asked for it (about 7 times): The last three times my german drivers license was good enough, twice all I had was my MVV monthly ticket with photo and once I had bugger all on me so they phoned in my details. They can detain you until they establish exactly who you are.

If the police are being polite to you just don't get all uppity about your rights, what or what not you should be carrying etc Not worth the hassle.

I don't think it is confusing. The law states you have to have it with you. All the other options are if you want to rely on how friendly the police are wanting to be balanced with how much inconvenience it is to carry it with you.

@BD
I have always carried photocopies of my PP and Current Permits.
In the last 10years I have had to show them maybe 5-7 times and EVERY time they were accepted, along with either a US or German drivers license (As long as it has a name and Picture)..

If they ask why you only carry a photo copy, tell'em about the cost
hassle of replacing a PP and the theft factor...

If your still willing to debate the point, I'll meet up with you and we can go to a police station of your choice for further testing... Or ask the Cops/BGS in Hauptbahnhof...

I'd just like to add that despite the law really obliging you to be able to ID yourself on demand, I have lived in this country for 12 years and never generally carry any form of legally accepted ID. I have nver once had problems or been stopped.

On a side note Driving licenses, Aufenthaltserlaubnisse etc are not legally a substitute for an ID card or a passport. Police officers might accept these, but that is their perogative. The ONLY legal form of ID for a British Citizen is a VALID passport. (But i'll be buggered if i am going to carry one about)

The part missing here would be "mitzuführen".

I never carry my passport around..I am too absent minded and am afraid I would leave it somewhere. Although now with todays bombing I will. I am hispanic so I have brown skin. I also have long hair and do not like to shave. So I am often mistaken for an arab. But this is a small price to pay considering what the people of London are going through.

Unless you are a member of a non-governmental organisation which has a specific legal agreement with the German government which states that staff members do not have to register (such people also get a Sonderausweis as ID upon request).

As a completely moronic aside (and I can be really moronic) I clicked on this thread after having seen that Gen made the last post. Then I started speed reading Perdido's post, thinking that it was from Gen.
Read "am hispanic so I have brown skin." and thought to myself strange I didn't know that. But it wasn't until I got to "I also have long hair and do not like to shave." that I woke up and checked the posters name.

Thought people might need a laugh taday.

I smiled Yeti

I laughed, Yeti. I always wanted facial hair...

I always carry a photo-copy of my passport with me as I cant be asked to carry the original and dont have a drivers licence. Never had a problem using this form of ID.
Also make sure you have a copy of your residence permit. Copy ID is also ok for paying with your EC card.

@pepper- I have only been controlled once and that on the train to Salzburg by the secret police:-)

But if your ID/passport is in Munich and you are being asked by the Police in Hamburg, I'm sure that won't count. Sure, common sense means you can provide ID and comply with the law if it's only down the road, but not if it's not covenient to reach...

As in most countries, you simply have to be able to satisfy the authorities as to who you are. In most cases a passport is definitive enough. Otherwise an official document, preferably with a photo helps. It's depends on the common sense of the person asking and the situation you find yourself. In the UK for example a a member of the public must "satisfy" a Police Officer as to his identity... A drunken yob who just belted some other bloke telling the bobby he is "John Smith" is unlikely to satisfy the officer, whereas a well dressed chap who just had a minor accident who can only show an envelope with his name and address on it is likely to get away with it.

If a German Policeman demands a passport from a Brit, he is within his rights, as the Passport is the only definitive form of ID in the absence of any other identity card (such as Germans carry, and is a damned sight more convenient in the pocket) Whether he's being reasonable is another matter and depends on the circumstances

YL6

I was under the impression that you must carry it at all times. Or is that just your registration papers?

Edit: oops. guess i should have read the entire thread first.

I don't think it does. Do you have a reference?


You would only be fined if you are being uncooperative. If you refuse to identify yourself, or start abusing the police (calling them racist, facist, etc) then you will be charged. The charge, however, will not be "being without an ID". The charge will be "being uncooperative and disrespectful of the police". Being out and about without a form of ID is not in itself a finable offence. Indeed, it's not an offence of any sort.

If you are stopped in Hamburg, and your passport is in Munich, the police will attempt to establish your ID via the wonders of modern telecommunications. The Hamburg officer will radio through the name and address that you give, this will be checked with the database - wherever that database happens to physically reside.

If a name, date of birth, and address check doesn't satisfy, they might fax/email through a photo. Your photo is on record if you are a registered resident. If you are not registered and are only a tourist, well, you'd better have a good reason for having left your passport at the other end of the country.

In short, in case the message has been lost in all the discussion:

Being out in public in Germany without an ID is not an offence. If you are challenged by the police and you have no ID but are able to quickly and politely give your details for cross-checking, then you will never be charged with any offence nor will you ever be fined.

phew... now I don't have to take my passport when I go swimming in the Isar naked.

how about if you're working, though?

My gf (german) tells me you have to have your passport (as well as work permit) if you're working...let's say behind a bar.

No. That would be ridiculous. If you're legal, your workplace has copies of your papers on file and the police could look at them -- assuming they're doing spot checks of people at workplaces. That's how it works when they check the Polish people who come to dig up asparagus.

EB: Are you now giving legal advice &/or interpreting German law on the site? While you may well be right about the interpretation, and given your concerns re things like copyright infringement, I would hate to see someone get into trouble and then claim your authoritative postings on TT as reference... could make for some messy legal troubles.

Never mind what has happened today. I dare anyone who looks even remotely out of the ordinary to go out and about over the next few days without proper identification. Arab and carrying a backpack in the UBahn sans i.d.? I am sure the Polizei will just let it go with a friendly wave and smile.

So why doesn't the German government make things easier on everyone who lives here and issue an ID to everyone? There is a place on the ausweiß for nationality. This doesn't mean a person is permitted to stay. Give it an expiration date which coincides with the expiration date of a visa for all non-residents!!?!! Its not too difficult to figure out a solution, so why can't this be done? In the US non residents are issued an ID card as well as any drivers license ( US issued) qualifies as legal ID!
My friend went to the Post to pick up a package. She did not have her passport nor did she have anyother ID but her German issued drivers license. They would NOT accept her license as ID and would NOT give her the package until she presented her passport. Not to mention she is a beautiful, blonde, thin, woman. So, they certainly could not be suspicious of her based on her looks!

I've been at them for years on this one, especially since I've seen the PAs with something other than "DEUTSCH". My ulterior motive for not carrying the passport is to wait until I'm stopped by some by-the-book cop and I get a ticket which I can then fight. Tilting at windmills I'm sure, but with the right judge, I might be able to get the Kreisverwaltungsreferat or Einwohnermeldeamt to give me the damned card already.

woof.

I am married to a German. I have one German/American child, pregnant with the second. In one more year I am permitted to stay here indefinately, yet, I cannot have a PA??