Ban on smoking in public and tobacco advertising

Does serving fatty pub food or crisps harm the health of the worker in the establishment? This is why nothing else is going to get banned. Smoking is being banned because it forces workers to work in an environment which is dangerous to their health. This point cannot be argued, its a fact.

There is also an added bonus that non-smokers don't have to be harrassed by wayward smoke as well.

That is why I suggest this...

Government bans smoking in restaurants and pubs, but pubs can request a license to be a smoking premises. Only a certain amount of these licenses per region are handed out. Then the people who decide to drink in or work in these establishments know fine well they will be working or socialising in a pub with smokers, no forcing involved, choice! If the landlords of said pubs had any sense, then they would install good air conditioners / ventilators.

That is all...

Yes and bananas are yellow.

What are you on about? I think you've completely misunderstood my post.

Bananas can be green too, ER.

Edit: and brown. If you let them sit around too long.

This solution is not workable because it discriminates against people who need a job, but are not willing to have their health put at risk every day when going to work.

Why does Philip Morris get away with having a smoking policy then? You can smoke anywhere in the building you want- including the cafeteria and the toilets. It's allowed. And it's AWESOME.

Tch. Maybe because someone who would work there isn't willing to sue for their right to a non-smoking workplace? Wo kein Kläger, da kein Richter.

Where is this building located? In the UK?

No, it's in Munich actually. I don't know. I think you'd probably go nuts working there as a non-smoker. Although everyone I taught there was non-smoker and they didn't care about the smoke one way or the other, which surprised me.

That is why only a certain amount of licenses would be handed out, as there would be plenty of other jobs available for bar staff. A quick survey on the percentage of barstaff who smoke would prove beyond doubt that non smokers would have a choice whether or not to work in a smoking establishment.

I guess they know which side their bread is buttered... erm... got a more appropriate idiom, anyone?

Is there anything outlawing smoking workplaces in Germany? I wouldn't have thought so considering people seem to smoke everywhere.. I doubt this would be allowed in places like Italy or the UK though..

The euro is mighter than the lung

Not sure what the exact laws are of smoking in public buildings in Germany.

Maybe what they could do is somehow equally discriminate. For example, only non-smokers would be allowed to work in office jobs, and smokers would be banned to do the crap bartending jobs. That way the smokers are all just killing each other off with their smoke. Another idea would be to form, dare I say, "ghettos" for smokers. Akin to makeshift refugee villages. That way the smoke would be concentrated among the smoking population only. And they'd probably kill each other off or die of cancer within a few generations anyway.

Not 100% sure now, but when I worked in Frankfurt about 5 years ago, you could smoke in your office as long as everyone in the office smoked. Here in o2 there is a smoking room on every level in the building.

I like the idea of only handing out a limited number of licences but how would you decide who gets them and who doesn't?

EDIT: one idea would be only to give them out to places that can prove they have acceptable ventilation systems installed.

Maybe check things like ventilation, roof height, type of pub ie family type places which intend to have a full food menu would be ruled out. Must be some set of criteria that could be worked out.

Edit: great minds ER

Sounds workable to me.

In Calgary, smoking is only allowed in places that don't allow kids under 18 to enter (bars, pubs, clubs and discos).

This idea is never going to happen. If it did happen, the government would be in a situation where it would be called a hypocrite. The reason for banning it is because it damages works health. If it was allowed, it would throw this reasoning out the window, as it would send that message that it is ok for some people to work in dangerous environments.

Its either all or none in this case from the governments stand point I'm sure..

Then I guess goverments should ban mining as lets be fair that is generally extremely bad for peoples health. And no more building sites as people often get seriously injured or die especially when building skyscrapers. If they allow this aren't they being hypocritical?

I know it is not going to happen, but I am saying it should happen. If the Government are happy enough for cigarettes to be sold legally and are aware that 10% (fook knows if that is right) of the population smokes, then they can make allowances for this section of people. They would not have to condone it, but they could allow it, actually giving people a choice??

I read in Speigel magazine that only 26% of the population smoke here. Have to say, I thought it was way higher.

Actually, there is an interesting article on smoking bans in Germany. It's not a new concept. The Nazis introduced a number of anti-smoking policies:

"Germany had the world's strongest antismoking movement in the 1930s and early 1940s, encompassing bans on smoking in public spaces, bans on advertising, restrictions on tobacco rations for women, and the world's most refined tobacco epidemiology, linking tobacco use with the already evident epidemic of lung cancer."

"Sixty of Germany's largest cities banned smoking on street cars in 1941. Smoking was banned in air raid shelters--though some shelters reserved separate rooms for smokers. During the war years tobacco rationing coupons were denied to pregnant women (and to all women below the age of 25) while restaurants and cafes were barred from selling cigarettes to female customers. From July 1943 it was illegal for anyone under the age of 18 to smoke in public. Smoking was banned on all German city trains and buses in 1944, the initiative coming from Hitler himself, who was worried about exposure of young female conductors to tobacco smoke. Nazi policies were heralded as marking "the beginning of the end" of tobacco use in Germany."

That is why you have workplace health and safety laws, to make these necessary professions as safe as they can be. Working in a smoky environment is in no way necessary.

But a sizeable proportion of the population wants these places to exist.

This is a different matter. I am all for banning smoking in public places, but I am just as strongly against them banning the sale of cigarettes. If someone wants to smoke, they should be allowed to smoke and the government shouldn't have a say either way. However if you want to smoke, you shouldn't be allowed to do it around other people who do not wish to.

Mining is only necessary because a load of us use up a ton of electricity to keep up our luxury lifestyles. I don't see how it is much different from someone needing to work in a smokey bar because a load of us want to relax and smoke while having a drink.

I think the world would operate a lot better without people being able to smoke in pubs than it would without miners.

So people need opals more than a relaxing cigarette

This is one argument you two will never win. One of pro one is anti.

I can see where Hutcho is coming from, I just think that a workable compromise is possible. The compromise I have suggested above means that you have pubs especially for smokers which are well ventilated. Also only a small percentage so that non smokers would not be forced into working in these conditions.

Granted, some mining is necessary, but a lot of it is just to supply our luxury life styles. You are just sounding a little bit selfish that you want to keep your lifestyle at the expense of (some) miners but want smokers to give up so people don't have to work in smokey bars.

Just face it that what most of us enjoy is only possible because some people work in dangerous situations. We could all give up something I am sure to make life better for others, but most people don't want to.

Maybe this is true, but in the same respect there is nothing wrong with enacting laws to make things safer..

Like speed limits on the autobahn.

Why not just ban driving altogether? It would save thousands of lives. Banning flying would also save a load of lives. Not to mention the reduction in pollution. Oh hang on, there are benefits to some things that are dangerous ... doh!

Ban dying... would save billions of lives...

Would it be the death penalty for breaking that law though?

It's not so much that you'd need to totally ban driving- that was be craziness as many people rely on cars. However, there's no need to drive 220 down the autobahn. It's dangerous not only to yourself but to others on the road. Plus, it's more damaging to the environment. Yet there are many parts of the autobahn without speed limits.

Nah... 220 is comfortable travel speed. It get's a bit strenuous though around the 250-60 mark.

Point taken.

You clearly need a more performance oriented car. In something like a 911 Turbo things don't become stressful until you go past the 300kph mark.

You're assuming there's no other traffic about...

But only on a three lane... I hate pulling over onto the emergency lane when these lorries race each other on the two lanes...

I used to be for a ban on smóking in pubs, but when I read the viewpoints of alot of non-smokers, it makes me want to start smoking Gitanes everywhere . "Ooooh, why don't we set up smoking "ghettos". (where is my santimonious preeming cunt smiley?)
Set up a smoking ghetto. Within weeks all the best places to eat and drink would be there.

Well, I'd fucking hope so. I'm a smoker. I was being a smart ass when I made that remark about smoking ghettos.

Indeed, forgive me if I am wrong, but there is no law preventing a restaurant owner making his property no-smoking today. But yet virtually none of them do this. If it made business sense they would do it in an instant.

it also discriminates from people who like to smoke on the job, but then anti smoking fascists like you dont care about the flip side do you!


i'm not sure what pubs you drink in but they are a far cry from all the pubs i have ever been in in my life. i know lots of people that work in bars/pubs and are fucking annoyed that they have to go outside now instead of enjoying a cigarette with the punters. in fact i know people that have found other jobs cos it annoys them so much.

if you don't like smoke can i suggest you avoid it. its a big grey hazy thing, you will see it emanating from these little white sticks that have one end on fire. they are easy to avoid. whereas you can avoid them in well ventilated pubs you will find it mightily hard to avoid going through lots of smoke to actually get into a pub in scotland/ireland wherever else with a ban.

i have just been in scotland. going out for dinner was different as we had to step out into the cold everytime we wanted a smoke. it was kind of funny, after we ordered, we left to go outside and always had to explain the waitress that we are not leaving but stepping outside for a smoke.
i am against a ban. ideally there are smoking and non-smoking bars. everytime i go out, i want to make the choice.

You are the one that clearly doesn't care about the flip side. We are talking about on one side having people who like to feed their dirty habit at work and don't want to be inconvenienced to walk outside. On the other side, we have people that would like to work in a place where they don't have to be worried about fucking dying of lung cancer through no fault of their own other than the fact they would like to put food on the table.


My heart fucking bleeds for these poor smokers, no really it does. Your argument is pathetic, no wonder people are getting sick of inconsiderate smokers.

Hehe, the problem today is that nobody actually looks at the statistics and just makes stuff up as they go along, then people believe them and before you know it new laws are made based on no scientific data at all.