In this case you are asking someone to put them self in a situation which would harm them for no good reason. This goes back to the original argument.
Now to get around this, you could hire a smoker, who is harming themselves anyway. But in this case it would be discrimination.
You are viewing a low-graphics version of this page. Click the headline to view full version:
Ban on smoking in public and tobacco advertising
Germany will introduce these laws - but when?
What about a smoking section with those huge air purifier thingys like they have in airports?
QUOTE (Hutcho @ Jul 14 2006, 10:31 am) 
In this case you are asking someone to put them self in a situation which would harm them for no good reason. This goes back to the original argument.
Indeed, and if you are going to make all dangerous jobs illegal if they are only to help other people have a good time, why stop at working in smokey bars? What about all those fisherman in the link I posted, do we really need to eat fish? They are doing a *far* more dangerous job just so we can eat fancy food.
Let's just ban smoking - it's dangerous anyway. How's that for a solution?
that's boring!
free cigarettes for everyone.. :-)
free cigarettes for everyone.. :-)
Yeah, you're right, fuck it - free crack as well.
And not just free. Compulsory.
QUOTE (Jimbo @ Jul 14 2006, 1:06 pm)
Let's just ban smoking - it's dangerous anyway. How's that for a solution?
Let's ban drinking too, dangerous stuff, and people can react to it in a variety of ways including becoming violent. Plus I have never woken up next to a minger because I smoked too many cigarettes!!
No, but you're unlikely to die of drowning in your own blood because you shagged a minger. Unless she's Jack the Ripper of course. However, whilst we're banning dangerous things let's ban Germans - they've started at least one World War and that killed millions of people.
QUOTE (Jimbo @ Jul 14 2006, 1:06 pm)
Let's just ban smoking - it's dangerous anyway. How's that for a solution?
I'm sure if you volunteered to pay the lost tax to the government, they might consider it
Pepper's just got a big rise- he could probably afford it.
QUOTE (Verbatim @ Jul 14 2006, 7:55 am)
You would, wouldn't you? Anyone who's seen any of your posts would know that it's just the kind of Schotte shitty behaviour you'd go for.
I just said I did, didn't I?
QUOTE (Hutcho @ Jul 14 2006, 9:56 am)
And if there wasn't? They'd have to hire a smoker. Look, its discrimination. You might not like it, or agree with it, but it would be discrimination none the less.
look, its not discrimation. or if it is its up there with strip clubs advertising for "women" - again a fairly good comparison. i cant believe you can possibly see this as discrimination, fair enough some arent keen on smoking but if its in the job description and people sign a contract there should be no issue whatsoever. are you the sort that call black coffee "non white coffee" eh ? normally these people that witter on about minor details like this
QUOTE (imirceach @ Jul 14 2006, 9:59 am)
A system might be devised which would make it possible for bar staff never to have to go into the smoking area while the pub/bar was open. A refundable deposit charged for drinks (glasses/bottles) would give people going to the bar from the smoking area an incentive to bring their glasses/bottles with them (people in the smoking area would also be responsible for emptying their own ashtrays) . If organised properly it needn't cause more than a minimal slowdown in service.
Cuirim ceist orm féin uaireanta an bhfuil mé dofheicthe.
Bit late, but found this article on the N-tv.de website. Bremen is going to be the first State in Germany to ban smoking in Kindergartens, Schools and hospitals... If you smoke in these places you will collect a €500 fine.
http://n-tv.de/688695.html
http://n-tv.de/688695.html
that is fair enough, shouldn't be anyone smoking in these places anyway!!
Yesterday the Bavarian Landtag agreed on a Smoking ban in Schools, I must admit I was amazed to find out a short time ago that the kids can smoke at school. They've also banned handys from being used in school as well, but that's a whole new can of worms.
what differentiates these places from others? Why do they deserve "special treatment" and why shoudn't "anyone [be] smoking in these places anyway!"?
children and the infirm OG
and I am not going to go into discussions or back this up in any way, so feel free to disagree all ye want, as it is purely an opinion
and I am not going to go into discussions or back this up in any way, so feel free to disagree all ye want, as it is purely an opinion
i just heard last night that if you are a taxi driver, in scotland anyway, you cant be withing 12feet of your vehicle when smoking. isnt that odd? even having all the windows shut. and why TWELVE ft...?
quite baffling. you can stipulate how far away from your taxi you have to stand in imperial, yet a mini brewery trying to sell german brewed beer in 1 litre glasses on glasgow green cant because it must be sold in imperial measurements.
logic? waiting in the taxi i think.
quite baffling. you can stipulate how far away from your taxi you have to stand in imperial, yet a mini brewery trying to sell german brewed beer in 1 litre glasses on glasgow green cant because it must be sold in imperial measurements.
logic? waiting in the taxi i think.
Long distance lorry drivers are no longer allowed to smoke in their cabins either. There is a pretty big uproar about that.
Strange, I thought the litre was a metric measure, or because it's German, maybe it needs to be a liter?
Is beer in the UK meant to be sold in imperial measures? Pint, half pint etc?
edit: ignore all that bollocks im getting right confused again sorry yorkie, i was thinking of something else that has to be in metric measurement and comparing to this law which is in imperial units. this is what happens when you are pretending to work and even pulling a face behind the computer as if you are actually working hard, requires too much concentration.
anyway i just wondered why 12 feet. who sits down and thinks "i think 12 feet is acceptable!"
yeah Wee Mun as far as i know this is the case, well for beers anyway. shots? dont know.
anyway i just wondered why 12 feet. who sits down and thinks "i think 12 feet is acceptable!"
yeah Wee Mun as far as i know this is the case, well for beers anyway. shots? dont know.
Plus when it's too damned hot and as there is definitely no law in Germany that offices must have air-conditioning.
I guess I will just have to hit the Augustiner Beer Garden tonight, which I'm sure you can appreciate Schotte!
(Sorry to make you jealous)
I guess I will just have to hit the Augustiner Beer Garden tonight, which I'm sure you can appreciate Schotte!
(Sorry to make you jealous)
I have a case of Paulaner in the fridge waiting for me and I would hazard a guess this heatwave means its hotter in Britain than it is in Germany. I shall simulate a German beer garden in my garden thank you very much for your concern though
QUOTE
ban smoking in Kindergartens [...]If you smoke in these places you will collect a €500 fine
500 Euro?! Porkinell! Kids today have a lot more pocket money than I ever did.
QUOTE
Is beer in the UK meant to be sold in imperial measures?
I think it is sold in amounts of 568 ml or something, which just coincidentally is 1 pint. Seeing as how I don't drink beer though, you should make your own tests.
Think I posted this site before but here it is again.
http://www.forces.org/evidence/psaip.htm
I believe both smokers and non smokers should have rights. Just make a smoke free area. If you ask me all the smoker's rights are about gone. Why not leave them alone now? There are enough bans going on. I smoke beadies and if I want to smoke rolled up clove leaves for example too who has the right to say I can't?
http://www.forces.org/evidence/psaip.htm
I believe both smokers and non smokers should have rights. Just make a smoke free area. If you ask me all the smoker's rights are about gone. Why not leave them alone now? There are enough bans going on. I smoke beadies and if I want to smoke rolled up clove leaves for example too who has the right to say I can't?
According to the latest evaluation of secondhand-smoke studies, the adverse effects of secondhand
smoke (coronary heart disease and lung cancer among others) are quite real, and there is no safe
exposure for non-smokers! Moreover, "Separating smokers from non smokers, cleaning the air,
and ventilating buildings cannot eliminate exposures of non-smokers to second hand smoke."
The whole study 700+ pages and a shorter executive summary can be found here:
http://www.surgeongeneral.gov/library/secondhandsmoke/
smoke (coronary heart disease and lung cancer among others) are quite real, and there is no safe
exposure for non-smokers! Moreover, "Separating smokers from non smokers, cleaning the air,
and ventilating buildings cannot eliminate exposures of non-smokers to second hand smoke."
The whole study 700+ pages and a shorter executive summary can be found here:
http://www.surgeongeneral.gov/library/secondhandsmoke/
Although I am very much against smoking, especially in restaurants (or at least, I would prefer all restaurants and pubs to have a non-smoking section as well), I find this going a bit too far(article in German). Is it allowed to turn down a candidate on account of their addiction to alcohol as well? Or addiction to other forms of drugs? Does anybody know?
If it is clearly stated in the contract and made clear to the new employee, I believe so. Many banks in London and London underground have such contracts and do random drug and alcohol tests on staff to enforce it.
Just saw a blurb in this morning’s paper about a potential smoking ban in the O'fest tents this year. They are still deciding if it should be a Full ban, or a "Only in designated locations" limit... Now if only they could do something about the price of a Mass..
If a business has declared itself rauch frei/alcohol frei / drogen frei/ then it should be clear to all potential employees that such addictions won't be tolerated. I would imagine that such issues, should they be of such importance to an employer would be discussed during an interview (should it get that far) and if potential employees aren't happy about working in such an environment then they can happily look elsewhere for a job where they can indulge their habits.
Which paper was that in Darkknight? I can't see this happening, but it would be freaking excellent if it did.. most of those tents are terribly ventilated..
I got the impression that it would only be a couple of tents, as an experiment.
QUOTE (colonialgirl @ Aug 7 2006, 2:12 pm)
If a business has declared itself rauch frei/alcohol frei / drogen frei/ then it should be clear to all potential employees that such addictions won't be tolerated. I would imagine that such issues, should they be of such importance to an employer would be discussed during an interview (should it get that far) and if potential employees aren't happy about working in such an environment then they can happily look elsewhere for a job where they can indulge their habits.
if O2 were to sack people for drinking or smoking, then they could wave goodbye to almost their entire contracting workforce. Fortunately O2 are not fucking Nazis, and have a smoking room on every floor, obviously realising that a happy work force is a more productive workforce.
And a smoking workforce is an early-deathing smelly unhealthy workforce.
(Only joking )
(Only joking )
)
Tageszeitung, cover page... Got this off their web site, but I'm sure the actual paper goes into more details..
Orig. Web link with Front page pix. Rought translation follows..
Orig. Web link with Front page pix. Rought translation follows..
QUOTE
Rauchverbot in Gaststätten: Wie streng soll es werden?
Verbraucher-Minister Seehofer hat Entwurf für Gesetz schon fast fertig
Prohibition of smoking in restaurants: How strictly is it to become? Consumer Minister Seehofer has draft for law already nearly finished
Die Rauch-Zeichen aus Berlin sind deutlich: Die rund 17 Millionen Raucher in Deutschland müssen schon bald mit gesetzlichen Qualmverboten in öffentlichen Gebäuden und auch in Gaststätten rechnen. Unterstützt von Gesundheitsministerin Ulla Schmidt (SPD) feilt Verbraucherschutzminister Horst Seehofer schon eifrig an einem Gesetzentwurf, den er im Herbst im Kabinett einbringen will.
The smoke characters made in Berlin are clear: Those approximately 17 million
smokers in Germany can count soon on more legal smoke prohibitions in public
buildings and also in restaurants. Supported by health minister Ulla Schmidt
(SPD) and consumer protection Minister refuge Seehofer already eager at a
bill, which he wants to bring in in the autumn in the cabinet.
Der CSU-Politiker: „Ich gehe davon aus, dass wir dazu 2007 ein Gesetz haben werden.“ Einzig noch strittig in seinem Papier ist die Frage, wie streng der Nicht- Raucherschutz in Wirtshäusern und Restaurants werden soll. Im günstigsten Fall für die Raucher werden nur drei Viertel aller Plätze eines Lokals rauchfrei werden. Im schlimmsten Fall gibt es ein völliges Rauchverbot.
A CSU politician: "I assume we will have in 2007 a new law."
In the bill the question that still remains is, how strict the non-smokers
protection in pubs and restaurants is going to be. In the most
favorable case for, smokers only three quarters of all places of
a restaurant will become smokeless. In the worst case there is a
complete prohibition of smoking.
Zumindest für öffentliche Gebäude kommt letzteres im neuen Jahr ganz sicher. Seehofers Vorstoß dürfte nicht nur in der Regierung, sondern auch in Bundestag und Bundesrat auf Zustimmung treffen. Denn auch hier wird seit Monaten parteiübergreifend an einem Gesetz gearbeitet. Es ist auch im Gespräch, Jugendlichen unter 18 das Rauchen zu untersagen.
At least for public buildings the latter comes in the new
year completely reliably. Seehofers raid might meet not
only in the government, but also in Bundestag and Bundesrat
on agreement. Because one works also here for months cross-party
on a law. It is also in the discussion to forbid to young people under 18 a smoking.
Verbraucher-Minister Seehofer hat Entwurf für Gesetz schon fast fertig
Prohibition of smoking in restaurants: How strictly is it to become? Consumer Minister Seehofer has draft for law already nearly finished
Die Rauch-Zeichen aus Berlin sind deutlich: Die rund 17 Millionen Raucher in Deutschland müssen schon bald mit gesetzlichen Qualmverboten in öffentlichen Gebäuden und auch in Gaststätten rechnen. Unterstützt von Gesundheitsministerin Ulla Schmidt (SPD) feilt Verbraucherschutzminister Horst Seehofer schon eifrig an einem Gesetzentwurf, den er im Herbst im Kabinett einbringen will.
The smoke characters made in Berlin are clear: Those approximately 17 million
smokers in Germany can count soon on more legal smoke prohibitions in public
buildings and also in restaurants. Supported by health minister Ulla Schmidt
(SPD) and consumer protection Minister refuge Seehofer already eager at a
bill, which he wants to bring in in the autumn in the cabinet.
Der CSU-Politiker: „Ich gehe davon aus, dass wir dazu 2007 ein Gesetz haben werden.“ Einzig noch strittig in seinem Papier ist die Frage, wie streng der Nicht- Raucherschutz in Wirtshäusern und Restaurants werden soll. Im günstigsten Fall für die Raucher werden nur drei Viertel aller Plätze eines Lokals rauchfrei werden. Im schlimmsten Fall gibt es ein völliges Rauchverbot.
A CSU politician: "I assume we will have in 2007 a new law."
In the bill the question that still remains is, how strict the non-smokers
protection in pubs and restaurants is going to be. In the most
favorable case for, smokers only three quarters of all places of
a restaurant will become smokeless. In the worst case there is a
complete prohibition of smoking.
Zumindest für öffentliche Gebäude kommt letzteres im neuen Jahr ganz sicher. Seehofers Vorstoß dürfte nicht nur in der Regierung, sondern auch in Bundestag und Bundesrat auf Zustimmung treffen. Denn auch hier wird seit Monaten parteiübergreifend an einem Gesetz gearbeitet. Es ist auch im Gespräch, Jugendlichen unter 18 das Rauchen zu untersagen.
At least for public buildings the latter comes in the new
year completely reliably. Seehofers raid might meet not
only in the government, but also in Bundestag and Bundesrat
on agreement. Because one works also here for months cross-party
on a law. It is also in the discussion to forbid to young people under 18 a smoking.
If O2 is a company that supports smoking and provides smoking rooms - then it is fortunate for the smokers that they have a sympathetic employer who will indulge their habit.
BTW - I didn't mention anything about sacking anybody. That is a different issue. However, if the policy of the company changed after taking on "smoking" staff, it would be fair to give them incentives to help them give up. Sacking them seems a bit extreem. I was thinking in terms of a new company looking for new employees. However, if someone who is a smoker etc. is looking for a new job applies to a company that has a non-smoking policy they either are prepared to give it up whilst on the job or shouldn't bother applying.
BTW - I didn't mention anything about sacking anybody. That is a different issue. However, if the policy of the company changed after taking on "smoking" staff, it would be fair to give them incentives to help them give up. Sacking them seems a bit extreem. I was thinking in terms of a new company looking for new employees. However, if someone who is a smoker etc. is looking for a new job applies to a company that has a non-smoking policy they either are prepared to give it up whilst on the job or shouldn't bother applying.
QUOTE (colonialgirl @ Aug 7 2006, 5:39 pm)
If O2 is a company that supports smoking and provides smoking rooms - then it is fortunate for the smokers that they have a sympathetic employer who will indulge their habit.
Does your company allow coffee breaks? Lucky if you are a coffee drinker that they indulge your habit!! What toss!!
there was an article in the economist about a year ago about how the germans couldn't pass the no-smoking laws because it was viewed as discrimination against the smokers...
They should ban it for everybody and make it compulsory for the pensioners, sort the german age pyramid problem right out.
Drug and alcohol testing are completely over the top in my opinion.
If an employee is doing his job properly, then what difference does it make what he does in his/her spare time?
And before anyone goes on and posts about doctors or pilots having to refrain from drugs - fair enough, because they are responsible for people's lives. But most people are not...
If an employee is doing his job properly, then what difference does it make what he does in his/her spare time?
And before anyone goes on and posts about doctors or pilots having to refrain from drugs - fair enough, because they are responsible for people's lives. But most people are not...
I agree. I hated it when my company went that route, and I was a friggen hiring manager and had to deal with it. lame.
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