Right of way law is crazy here!

So I am driving down this street enjoying the sunny day. I am traveling at about 50kph.
Suddenly this car comes bolting out of this side street, it sees that I am not slowing down and they slam on their brakes. They start yelling at me through the windscreen etc etc. I got pissed off and was waving my hands back at him. Well it turns out he was right???! If there is no sign you must always give way to a car on the right even if it is a T in the road and you are staying on the same road.

Crazy law! Is this true anywhere else?

That is why I don't let visitors drive my car. They know not of such things.

He was probably yelling 'Rechts vor Links!' I was surprised by this as well, but I had ample warning before I got behind the wheel of a car. I'll post a link shortly with other driving rules for Germany (if I can find it again).

Driving in Germany - Tips and things to watch

EDIT: Here we go, from the US consulate website. Link Scroll down a bit and there are some general tips for driving in Germany (including right of way)

Stupid as it is, this may help you out. Also watch for the signs that OW mentioned (yellow diamond with white border which gives you priority at the next intersection).

Its pretty much the rule throughout Europe, except in England.
Its known as the dead right rule! As they cary you off in the ambulance you cry "I had the right of way"

yeah the general rule (which is total bollox if you ask me) is right before left. On roads where this is NOT the case (which is the majority ) you will see a yellow diamond with a white border. This sign gives you priority on the road.

[img]http://www.zum.de/Faecher/grund/RP/Verkehrserz/vzeichen/vorfahrt.gif[/img]

speaking of signs...does anyone know what those little round signs are that are split down the middle and have a number (30 or 60 or something on each side of the split). There are also usually two arrows on the one side and one arrow on the other side. There is also a small picture of a vehicle at the top (often a lorry but sometimes a tank!). I'll try and find a picture

I think its actually the rule in GB too, if the junction is unmarked. However 99.9% of junctions are (usually clearly) marked so this generally avoids confusion.

@ boomtown rat - those are speed limits for military vehicles. one is for no traffic (the one with one arrow), the other (with two arrows) is for when there is traffic

EDIT: I think all with these questions about road signs we should start a new threas where ppl post a pic and explain or ask what they mean. there are way too many, and I'm sure that I don't know them all even though I drive almost daily...scary huh?!?!?!

the crap rule can also mean that if cars come from all directions to a junction simultaneously then you are all screwed as each has to give way to someone else! Doesn't fit very well with the otherwise generally very good rules on German roads

thanks!

not true. here is the rule for unmarked crossroads in Britian:

Unmarked crossroads are by definition crossroads that have no road markings or traffic signs on approach to indicate which road has the priority. The width of the roads that form the cross has no bearing and neither does the amount of parked traffic in the streets. If there is nothing to say which direction gets the priority then neither one does.

The safest way to use this type of junction is to assume that neither of the roads has priority. Simply pull up near the junction in an emerging fashion, prepared to give way to anything that is coming. Make sure that you look effectively in all directions before you move off again.

If you are involved in an accident at this type of junction then it is automatically half your fault, because if you had stopped and given way then the accident would not have happened. The same of course applies to the driver of the other vehicle.

For information on right-of-way, see this page. they have most road signs, explanations and examples.

woof.

I think it's good that lots of people can just switch their driver's license and not have to go through the whole expensive testing procedure.

But now I'm starting to think a mandatory 4 hour class for newcomers wouldn't be a bad idea.

Even a quick test (written) to see if newcomers know the basics wouldn't be a bad idea - you can't even switch licenses from state to state in the states without a written test.

I actually know of a couple who wondered why there were so many streets named "einbahnstrasse" and why people yelled when they drove down them.

I think the craziest thing here (not that I am complaingin about it) is that UK drivers are allowed to drive here. Not only are the rules & signs different, but we drive on the other side of the road.. thats just asking for it.

Saying that, I adjusted fairly easily, but the first few days/weeks were very hazardous as you would find yourself driving on the wrong side...

Other than compulsory practice with an instructor, I dont see any other way than just letting us drive like they do.. A test would not help in this aspect of things. I guess I just answered my own question

good idea on the classes, Showem, but it shouldn't need to be mandatory. It makes sense to familiarise yourself with local traffic rules. When i first arrived in Germany i spend a long time driving with a German sat next to me. He was able to explain loads of peculiarities (like having to indicate left or right when a priority road bents round but not having if you are turning off it into a non-prioriyt road that continues straight on)

I believe those are weight restrictions for tanks and such rather than speed limits.

We have this rule in North America too folks, just in a slightly saner manner... If two cars both come to a 4 way stop at the same time, the car coming from the right has the right of way.

BTW, it is important to remember that in ALL 30km/h zones, the rechts vor links rule applies.

That street is actually the basis for one of my "early driving" stories.. I had noticed this sign around town and remembered it. Then one day I was lost and saw the same sign so thought "ahhh that must be the way home". So after 3 mins I was back where I started. It was then that I sussed the meaning of einbahnstrasse

@ DDBug - Yes, you can change licenses from state to state without a written test. I've lived in TN, SC, GA, FL, and NJ. I never had to take a test to swap licenses. Just walk in, fill out the application, read the letters from the chart, and turn in the old one.

I always had to take a written test - but I have never taken a driving test.

Well, if it's not mandatory, hardly anyone will take it, will they? If not mandatory, it should qualify you for slightly cheaper insurance or something. That was the case for new young drivers when I was learning. If you went to driver's ed, you were cheaper to insure. So of course, nearly everyone went.

4 hours isn't a hardship and would be long enough to get the theory and a bit of driving practice in.

@DDBug -That's strange. Which states (so i can stay away from them in the future)? Had you let the old one expire or something? Are you a US citizen? maybe they have some discriminatory practice for foreignors?

why the different numbers on left and right and the double/single arrow(s) then? Speed sounds plausible

showem, what about tourists or transit drivers? would they have to take these classes as well?

No, just those who live here.

Mountain time zone (UT, WY, MT). They had never expired and I am a US citizen. They just made me take a quick multiple choice test each time, and an eye exam. fair 'nuf. I didn't have to take a multiple choice test to get my permanent german license, so I do agree with showem

And transit drivers could be like transit drivers in the states - you don't need a Wyoming license to drive though, but after 21 days of residency you do.

@ boomtown rat & Tim - i stand corrected, I'll have to inform the fiance that I am indeed not always right (LOL).

http://home.att.net/~texhwyman/zeichen3.htm

It is weight limits...my bad...I could have sworn someone told me speed.

Edit: I guess the different numbers for one arrow versus two means that if one vehicle could be 100 on the bridge, then two vehicles on the bridge would need to be half that or 50 each.

thanks Tim and aj for the military info. The double arrow makes sense now actually if it's for bridges.

so you could spend 3 months driving here on "holiday" and not have to take any lessions but the minute you decide to live here permanently you are not allowed to drive unless you take them? Don't think that is logical. Making an incentive for them re insurance would be good but not enforceable against EU citizens since it is discrimation.

What definitely would be helpful, if there was a card in rental cars explaining the differences. The right of way thing with the yellow diamond, and the pedestrian lights in the same direction going green with the car traffic lights.

Rat and AJ - Another interesting tidbit...

First time I drove into Switzerland I saw all these big wacky steel things on the hills around the border. I figure, Switzerland, mountains, snow, must be something to do with avalanches. Apparently though, according to my friend Wolfgang they are, yep, TANK BARRIERS. No, this trip was not in 1938

AJ, great link
EditorBob - add that one to TT's most useful link section please

I don't see what the problem is. I always get eye-contact with the other driver, so they completely understand my "It's MY right of way Fucker" glare. Works in every country and whichever side of the road you drive. However, just to be on the safe side, I try to drive straight down the middle of the road.

On a lighter note, back in the mid-90's when I was working up near Bielefeld. The traffic planners, in their 'wisdom' decided to put in a roundabout in Enger. One of those nice little chicane type roadabouts with the beautiful gradient kerbs that are so nice to get the car hopping through at speed on the apexes. The locals approached this little piece of traffic 'calming' (excuse me while i laugh a little) with total trepidation, then always indicated right, no matter which junction they were coming off at. After a few near misses because I understood that these idiots were indicating that they would be leaving the roundabout at the previous exit to the one I was arriving at, I asked my best friend in Bielefeld (who's brother is Polizei) what the official word was on them. He told me that so long as you are indicating a direction, that you should follow it. By pure coincidence, that night I drove him from work into Bielefeld, and sitting just off the Enger roundabout was his brother in a Police car. I indicated left, and went around the roundabout in the British direction. The blue lights and siren tracked me down 100 metres later and I explained that I had clearly indicated my intentions. My mate's Polizei brother had to agree that I had technically not committed any offence. But, he was well confused. Ever seen a confused German Policeman - wonderful sight, believe me

OG, we'll have to agree to disagree. It sure makes sense to me, especially upon reading here about people having difficulties with it. How many others are out are the same?

Umm, I thought these were weight limits e.g. One way traffic 100 Tonnes limit, two way traffic 50 tonnes limit (each way I guess).

I'd like to see the tank in the sign manage 100km/h :-)

edit: ok so I missed the various links on page 2, na, ja, I was right anyway :-)

@ woolleym - yeah, if you read the rest of the thread, it's explained. i was mistaken (or rather, misinformed). there's a handy link to where I found the correct info.

There was a story doing the rounds in the Bundeswehr that in an "unoffical test" on the Autobahn a Leopard II (Main Battle Tank)managed 116 kmph, with enough of a runup and slight modifications to the engine.

As a tip , a 55.15 tonne armoured vehicle has the right of way.

This is exactly how things work in regards to being allowed to drive in Germany on an Australian licence.

You can drive here for up to 6 months on your Australian licence upon arrival. Then you must take the written and practical test if you want to continue to drive after this period.

It's not logical and it makes far less sense than Showem's idea...

Showem's idea is to try and prevent the problems that motorists encounter when they arrive in a foreign country. Once you have been driving here six to twelve months you have pretty much encountered most motoring situations that would be different from your home country. You have basically learnt by doing. Making them take a test or have lessions then is like closing the stable door once the horse has bolted.

If you are going to have problems here it will be when you are freshly arrived and still unsure. I know that after a few months driving on the continent, i was sailing around like a native after having been quite unsure at first. A test or lessions now would bring no advantage.

The right of way is fairly standard internationally - hence the name...and it equally applies at sea:

Rule 15

When two power-driven vessels are crossing so as to involve risk of collision, the vessel which has the other on her own starboard side shall keep out of the way and shall, if the circumstances of the case admit, avoid crossing ahead of the other vessel.

...shall apply to all vessels upon the high seas and in all waters connected therewith navigable by seagoing vessels.

@ ArtfulDodger. Well this is embarassing, but the right before right thing (even if at a t-junction or from a side road) did not sink in with me until a few months ago.

I moved to Munich in 1992.

And am accident free

Thank you for decoding that tank sign thing... I can die in peace now.

Actually, I have switched PA -> MA, and then MA -> CO without any sort of test at all. Simply showed up at the registry, paid the fee, had my picture taken, and got the license in the mail.

--phil

I had a few right before lefts when I first got here, finally had to ask someone, even today I still have problems getting used to it, tend to go backwards!

hmm think u will also find that is the case in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland(or stolen part of Ireland - whichever u prefer )

u german or english?

muppet

hmmm maybe abit grumpy in the above post.

Old saying about accidents: it's not who's right, it's who's left!

one main problem I have noticed with the right before left rule is that it confuses the shit out of Germans when approaching roundabouts,
many times I have seen them stop halfway around the circle because a car has appeared on their right and there is no yellow diamond to tell them what to do, so on go the brakes,
which in the winter on a icey road is viel spass for the cars behind

Don't start me on the subject of roundabouts or I'll be going all day Stopping, starting, looking, not looking, indicating when joining but not when leaving... Grrrrr.
Just drive through as quickly as possible to minimise the dwell time at the point of maximum danger.
(salt, pinch)

just to be fair, roundabouts are relatively "new" here. only in the past 5 years german councils have started building roundabouts instead of stupid traffice lights; i.e. my mum does not drive much, she still panics before every roundabout, quite funny.

Roundabouts are primarily an English thing though. There are some in Germany, but so few that once they do appear they cause confusion. The idea is to keep traffic flowing (ideally), but once there's enough traffic there'll be a jam. I prefer traffic lights or Stop signals at crossings. Oh, and I hate this "rechts vor links" crap. Beware, some thugs actually plan on crashing on such crossings with a junk car just to get money from your insurance.