Karma

Excellent! Now to my true political state... ANARCHIST

What about if everyone has a daily limit on how much karma they can give, and they can decide how many points for each post. You cannot save your Karma for the next day. It goes by the particular post and not the thread. If you find it witty, funny, or informative then +ve and offensive, boring, lame or degrading then nail the poster with -ve karma. I also like the Anonymous option. You can give and take without being known, so there is no chance of reprocusions... an eye for an eye type of thing.

What everyone finds as a quality post or thread is different. I personally have nothing to do with the rugby or football threads, but to some people they are very important to their daily life. So, that is very hard to judge.

Gee - I still want to know who zapped me. Twice. Ok, maybe not but I would like to know what I am getting zapped for (without having to double-check the anonomys lists against who was logged in when within 15 minutes of my post). But then again, I don't take alot of things very seriously but others might. oh well.

Come on - fess up - who did it !

If your going to implement it, keep it anonymous or don't bother doing it.
A Slashdot type system would be overkill for this board, causing lots of info. to be missed simply because a user doesn't have the correct karma count, which is also affected by others on a "hate streak"...

I'd have to side with the others... Keep the system the way it is.

And I have 49s. I can't buy shoes here!

I'll offer one alternative. Again, I don't think karma per post would be very effective, because I don't think there would be enough votes on any given post to give an accurate barometer of quality. However, I think it would be interesting to provide a "watch" list to counter the current ignore list. After reading the bboard for some time, there are a few people I think always have quality posts. Rather than ignore them, I'd prefer to see a flag on threads/messages they've posted in.

You could have a watch list where you enter a username, and maybe pick a reason or several from a predefined list on why they're being watched (e.g. humor, informative, intriguing, helpful, etc.). You could then publish the list of the people being watched, with brief stats on how many are watching them, and for what reasons (but not who's watching them). This would help flag those persons as interesting posters for newcomers to the bboard. A way for people to have an idea where quality posts are being made.

By listing those people who are watched (and by how many, and for what reasons), then regular readers/newcomers can decide to watch the same people, or other people. Those people who create their own watch lists would see an indicator on threads or posts where a posting was made by a person on their list. Threads could be individually weighted further if several postings from multiple people in the user's watch list have been made.

It doesn't give quality ranks per post, but per user - which might make more sense if not enough people would vote per post to make a collaborative filter successful. Since the people being watched are done so for high quality reasons - there shouldn't be any embarrasment over listing those watched for others to see.

just a thought.

Actually, if the system acheived what it was intended to acheive (who knows, maybe there was some hidden agenda that we are not aware of) then why not keep it?

Was it supposed to acheive something besides mild entertainment on top of the addition of clicking "View new posts" every two minutes?

PES - there's a BIG shoe size shop - I just have to remember where it is again

@ Randy - I like that idea!

(Just wanted to make sure it doesn't get lost since I posted a millisecond after you) Really, I would love to see where the funny people are posting instead of having to click View New Posts and scrolling.

'61 was a good year for big feet! I can also palm a basketball with both hands. I am sensing a shift in the karma-continuem.

Sounds interesting. I have no one on my ignore list, but I would have some peeps on my flag list and if my flag list could be easily programmed then that would be great. The only drawback would be those that have peeps they hate on their list simply to keep an eye on them. I feel watched sometimes and I do have a fairly accurate intuition.

there are a couple of shops selling shoes in megabig (and megasmall) sizes on sonnenstr, just near sendlinger tor

@eurovol
some call it intuition others paranoia. A rose is a rose by any other name...

Its a great shop, I have size 42 (bigguns) for a women! Always forget the name though!!!

Hey, are you watching me... shoo, go away. Don't make me put my tin foil hat on.

nah, it's just the karma kindergarten in reverse, then, innit
it won't actually be the most interesting posters on the watch list, it'll be the ones with the most friends irl
i don't personally see what was wrong with the pre-karma tt - why do we have to mess about with this nonsense
it's just plain silly

well, it's easy to find at least one of the shops i'm thinking of - just walk up sonnenstr from sendlinger tor heading towards stachus, and it's about 50m up on the left-hand side

I am just your fan! Save for your love of the Dolphins!

I don't think it will be the ones with the most friends on the watch list, but the most interesting ones (in a positive or negative sense).
Some people have really funny, sensitive and insightful posts, and others are like watching a train wreck, you shouldn't look because it's probably upsetting, but you want to look anyway.

why would it have that effect?
i don't see a difference between a watch list and karma - at the end it boils down to the same thing, doesn't it?
i put my bezzie on watch, she puts me and her fiance on watch, the kiwis all put each other on watch () etc etc

why do we need it?

Scrap the whole damn thing and get back to the good ol days when we all gave each other karma, curry or a middle-finger in our hearts and minds. This is getting to the point of ridiculousness.

That is exactly why posts about Karma are more fun than the karma itself. Budha man is rolling in his grave next to Beethoven.

Edit: Do you think eBob is gonna have to merge his own topic?

Ah! the Toytown metamorphosis. After 600+ friggin posts it finally went from Karma to shoe stores.

Hey, your hijacking this karma nonsense thread with actuall info. Now go to your room and meditate.

Ya, I know, by Sedlingertor somewhere. But I would rather walk in flip flops than in what they offer.

jesus christ., you get stick nmow for posting useful stuff thanks to the utter bollocks that is karma
ffs

edit - ok, admittedly my 'useful info' was off-topic,but still...

I am flying to Winnipeg next week, some great shoe stores there for... well, larger feet! I usually buy a few pairs when home, got some really nice sexy strappy sandles too!

Apart from palming ball in both hands (can you juggle bocce balls?) can you meet your little finger with your ringer behind your middle and ring fingers? I can immer noch

Can you lick your elbow?

In the spirit of those who deem Toytown to only be about info, how about a karma the locals system. I am sure a few business establishments could use a karma shalacking both pos and neg. Remember kiddies it is easier to type pos intead of +ive and neg instead of -ive. I can't even pronounce -ve

Can you turn your little finger around 180°? I can because I broke it playing football. Its a great party trick that is real and never fails to make people say "ewwwww"!

my brother can beat that! He cut off part of his little finger as a child, so he has a stub of a finger- so when he is mad at someone, he puts the stub to the nose and it looks like he is digging deep.

My son wins. He does that too, but for real and then eats it!

I tell him don't do that cause it is yucky. He says "Das Schmeckt!". I say no it doesn't and then he says "doch" and then tries to prove it by feeding the next one to me.

You knew I was going to chime in on this thread. Let me preface my post pointing out that I edit/mod/admin a couple high-traffic sites using a couple forms of moderation. The best system I've seen is the Scoop software with some modifications.

Marking posts only:
Very good idea. A toggle button to re-sort a topic according to point scores or post time would provide easy access to the high quality (generally informational) posts while maintaining the thread's flow.

Users' "quality" can be determined as a function of high- vs. low- rated posts in comparison with the overall number of posts rated. The person with more ratings overall should score higher than someone with the same average over fewer ratings.

Rating interface:
This is where I like Scoop. The use of either drop-downs or radio buttons to score a post on a scale of 0-3 or 0-5 based on the quality of its content (radio buttons encourage more rating than do drop-downs). Ratings can only be given by logged-in users. A score is displayed, perhaps before the date in the upper left of the post frame. It reads (X/Y) where X is the average score and Y is the number of votes it received. This score is clickable for logged-in users and pulls up a list of who rated it and what they gave.

This system provides transparency and this puts a quick end to the childish and petty behaviour seen early on with the Karma Kids Klub.

Mods here are pretty quick to act and any workable system needs a way to stop abuse. Mods/Admins should be able to click on a user to find the ratings given to all comments rated and if abuse is seen, the user is warned. If it occurs again, ratings for that user is disabled for a period of time. If it happens again, the user loses rating ability permanently and ALL previous ratings are removed (very easy SQL for that but best left to late-night batch jobs).

Rating System
Simple rating system:
4 - Totally top post. More like this please!
3 - Very good
2 - OK
1 - Bits which could have led a much more productive life as a pop-under ad.
0 - Should be deleted by mods

At a threshold of n 0s (two or three) a post is hidden from general view (could be made an option in user profile). This system is pretty self-correcting since a single 4 wipes out 4 0s on any post. Up-rating a bad post deserving of 0s is also abuse and should be handled accordingly.

Zeroes should only be available to "trusted" users. Perhaps only subscribers or only those who have been here at least 6-12 months would have 0 ability.

Opt-out
None. unnecessary due to transparency. Feelings might be hurt? Then don't rate. There are a few people here who I like in person but whose posts I often hate. They're grown-ups and understand the difference.

The Slashdot method
Hard to determine overall score. We also don't have serious trolls or crapflooders. Requires meta-moderation and much activity on the part of supermoderators/admins. Having categories such as Funny, Interesting, Informative, and Troll are great and user prefs allow modifying the score a logged-in user sees to be biased in favour of specific categories. It also takes a heavy toll on the database.

I'd be happy to explain any point further, discuss the pros and cons, and even help with the design and implementation.

woof.

I just cancelled my plan to go to eurovol's next BBQ party

So, Eurovol, your son speaks only tha awful german language to you! What will the folks back home say!

Whoa! This needs some serious thought.

So now we are the KKK?

Let us look at the difference between those boards and this one.
Those boards need supermoderation, this one doesn't (yet).
Moderating M&RC is a total waste of time. Rename the damn thing Useless BS and let it go. When a thread dies, let it go to archive heaven's waiting room and wait for the big dump. Some of the most useless, but entertaining threads are still there, but other somewhat informative ones have been deleted. That is simply an oxymoron to the whole karma system as it stands now.
The most entertaining threads are the most senseless ones. They should be freewheeling and to edit them is just a simple mismanagement of time. They will get old and die. Let them have there life such as it is and let them go in peace.

The informative stuff stays informative. Let it too go freewheeling to a point and after a couple days of inactivity, edit it down to simply the informative bits.

If people are missing out on informative stuff, then simply have a button for whether or not a post was informative and let the karma shit remain a funny, nonsense, non-learning (until Topsy brought up where to by bigguns ), random BS thread. It has been the most fun since the "Your best bits" thread or bonking the landlady.

Topsy's informative post will now get lost in the trainwreck, but perhaps not if it could be clicked as informative. Informative posts could then be merged into a read-only thread of informative posts and when the karma hoopla dies, the rest of the shit could be flushed out of the system.

My $0.02 worth.

Oh, he switches back and forth depending on what everyone else is speaking.
Not to worry roots, I don't eat or serve boogers just burgers.

>> i don't see a difference between a watch list and karma - at the end it boils down to the same thing, doesn't it?

Well, no. In my idea, a watch list lets me automatically prioritize threads/posts as important, based on what I've read from other forum members. The part about publishing a watched list is simply so newcomers have a starting foundation. Since I read this forum mostly daily, I personally don't give a whit if a canonical watched list is published - was just just trying to think of something helpful for newbies. A big point is I decide what are quality posts, not an aggregation of what other people think (which would work only if enough people vote to make such a filter relevant).

The current karma system is completely different. It also displays negative attributes, which a canonical watch list would not; only positive - otherwise, why would anyone watch someone elses posts? Since it changes the UI in order to make threads/posts stand out - it might be somewhat likely that people will sign up their friends to be watched, but much less likely that multiple people would do so. Why bother putting the equivalent of urgency flags on something you really don't feel is urgent (and it is the individual's UI that is changed, not everyone elses)? That's where showing the number of people watching someone else comes in handy. That was my thought anyway; not to make some exalted regents list.

Actually, HuSi (a modified Scoop site) doesn't need supermoderation anymore. It did in the beginning because of the people the members were sort of fleeing from, but with the various changes to the moderation system, mods and admins do very little anymore outside of minor edits on request, resectioning, and the occasional deletion of a comment or some comment ratings done by a sock puppet. The transparency of the system makes this easy to do.

Bzzt! Threads are constantly revived and not only do mods merge newbie questions in older threads about the same subject, they only sometimes delete certain comments bitching that the newbie didn't search first. With few exceptions only classified and employment threads die (usually through closure). All others can and are revived.


I said nothing about deleting comments nor editing them. I didn't mention putting a time limit (a year from time of post?) on rating ability for any comment but it's not that important. It would help stamp out stealth abuse, but when the thread is revived later, additional ratings could change the outcome of the sort order if done by

The novelty of rating every damned comment wears off pretty quickly. This is actually good because then only the better posts are likely to be rated up (and the worst down). It also quickly ends the reciprocal and childish games "karma" has provided and again adds real value for both registered users and guests.

I don't know, maybe you think I meant that the View New Posts should be able to sort by moderations. I wouldn't change the current time-based thread display system at all. The sort I referred to was only inside a particular thread, defaulting to timestamp but offering a toggle to sort by rating, thereby finding the most informative (and, most likely, funniest) posts on that thread.

For nonsense threads, it might be possible to toggle comment rating abilities.

woof.

I've asked it before, and nobody's answered:

why do we need it?

We don't. It's a feature just like any other. At the end of the day you don't even need the Toytown website at all. If you don't like a particular feature you don't have to use it. It just adds extra functionality which some people may like. It may add value to the site or may not, doesn't matter. If you're not interested then just ignore it.

I agree w/ roots. Just drop it and leave it alone.

Any similar feature to the karma thing will be equally abused, nor will the site get any benefit out of it.

it's not a case of just ignoring it, though, is it?
the whole karma rubbish has changed the dynamics of the board and the way people post, in my view in a negative way

i don't understand why it's deemed necessary to fiddle about with a board that was working just fine before

I disagree. Certainly my posting has not changed one iota since it was introduced. I think it's only a small number of people who are influenced or even care about the thing. Perhaps for those people it has influenced their way of posting for does that really matter to the larger populace?

It's deemed necessary to "fiddle about with a board" because it belongs to Ed Bob and he can do whatever he likes and try out whatever he likes. If something works well he'll keep it and if not then he'll ditch it. It's a dynamic thing just like any system.

actually, you know what? the question re "why it's necessary to fiddle about" was directed at ed bob
i'm quite well aware of the fact that it's his board - that's why i'd be really interested to hear what he's hoping to achieve with these changes

Great statement, that: 'it's deemed necessary b/c Ed Bob can do whatever he likes'

Ed Bob is clearly asking for our opinion here, and if Topsy sees no point in fiddling about w/ a perfectly intact board, that's an opinion - and I agree w/ her.

I actually like the fiddling as long as it is with features only.
Seriously, the various things he has tried have definitely impacted and influenced the posts. Right now there is a Karma thread that closed with 33 pages! That is impact.

I disagree with moving this forum to the format closer to Slashdot. These two forums serve different purposes and have a different user base as well as a smaller number. It makes sense to have the high quality posts bumped up in Slashdot, when they have hundreds and thousands of posts on a topic. But the number of threads that go for seven or more pages are not that common and when they do occur, it is usually due to a vocal few who are enjoying their debates. The quality threads with the most information are usually very short and concise. So I would vote against a rating system similar to slashdot, and if implemented by the majority I believe it should only apply to the "fact" threads.