Karma

experience = karmic power

But I gave someone +ve karma a little while ago, and it only came up as +2.

Edit: oh, is this because I don't normally play the karma game?

No its cos ur a relative newbie , guys like keydeck and showem have the karmic equivalent of lightning bolts at their disposal.

parnell understands. Have some good karma!

Then I guess it goes by time rather than number of posts (cuz I'm #5)?

It goes on registration date, I believe. I have an older account than this one that can give +/-4, but the powers that be got smart and combined its powers into this account so now I have only +/-3.

Mr P - I give you karma everytime I remember to (ie. whenever I log in) but it simply doesn't help.

One of the revered OldTimers must be crucifying you routinely.

If only I too had spent so much time on this site over a number years, then I too would have bolts at my disposal. But I would use them wisely. For the public benison.

Allas I do not. I really must try to spend more time on this site.

Everyone should check this guy's profile ... and then hit him with +ve

(btw nice goin giving OPENLY someone with more karmic power than you a positive hit - thereby almost guarenteeing an even bigger return hit - seems that you understand 2)

@ MTV ... thanks man but thats kinda the problem with k , we're real time friends so we have natural bias towards hitting each other up with pos k - I know some of the ol timers like kickin my ass around - not even bothered - just wish i could have it out with em on de boards... for example today Wee Mun and meself had a good go at one another ... actually I normally like the lad's posts ... but it kinda gave me an evil cackle or two to see that for about 4 hours he only got pounded with negative k - admittedly i got hit with both pos and neg but more of de former. BTW what time is the game on Saturday ? Im dead close to there and would like to hook up . PS Positive love back at ya

@Inflatablewoman - Then if you signed up that name only a month before me, why do you get +1 more than me? In one month I'll get +1 more?

I was asking the exact same question.

Well hopefully the points one can give out depend at least partially on how much karma you have, thats how slashdot does it, and it would make sense that the trolls down there with severe negative karma cant influence the system as much as the more thoughtful posters with positive karma.

If its NOT factored in then it should be.

But it doesn't make sense that the thoughtful posters down at the bottom with negative karma can't influence the system as much as the trolls like yourself (perfect example - your last post) at the top. I guess this is part of the reason why the system needs an overhaul.

I've just been karma'in de arse out of everyone on the tail end of dis thread - this has been one hell of a day for you karma wise huh ? Nice goin...

Kza is right but that will just lead to karma pooling - where folks just band together to keep hitting each other with pos k to increase their powers ... then whenever an underling pisses them off (IPJ ? ) they wipe her/him out. Not nice.

EDIT Neg k for IPJ for that - Kza is one of the few original thinkers on the board whether or not you agree with his points of view - he is consistent and def not a troller.

I've heard all the arguments for and against, and I still feel that it should be awarded to threads as a whole or not at all. But hey, what do I care, I just got a super model's phone number and I'm off home
/Gloat mode on

I bring up my recommendation again that those with "lightening bolts" loose them. I think newbies should get more karma power than old timers. Newbies know if the info is good or not, the old timers are just grumpy.
Grumpy Old Timers!


0909 number there?


Prefix 0909 indicates adult (top shelf only) premium rate service

That's pretty funny (-ve karma me for that all you want).

Yeah, and the boy likes to toot, so he can't be bad. I'm gonna send him a bud via my karma button.

@IPJ hey its not just trolls that end up at the bottom though. Its people who tend to post things that just make people want to click on negative karma for any reason. They may be just annoying, or redundant, or boring.. And whos to say they arent valid reasons for giving someone negative karma. And when I look at those at the top of the list, I can see what karmas all about, its a combo of being interesting, funny, and clever. And thats good too, the most thoughtful person in the world could still get negative karma for just being boring, and rightly so.

The fact is you can set up a karma system, and sure, you can apply technical constraints or ideas to help steer the direction of how it will be used, but ultimatley its up to the users of the site to make up their own definition of what gives posts good and bad karma, and the statistics help summarise that to not just give us an idea of who or which posts have good or bad karma, but to help recognise what Toytowners consider to be the important factors in evaluating karma.

I think people at the bottom of the list can rightly assume that people dont appreciate their posts, even if they think they are being thoughtful, and that people at the top can rightfully assume that others appreciate their posts a little more than the average post.

The system is not perfect, but as long as its based around positive and negative karma buttons then people will use them how they want, they will make up their own concept of what good and bad karma means independantlty of any moderator set guidelines.

I look forward to seeing the statistics average out exactly what sorts of posts make for good and bad karma (its an evolving concept really) in the collective opinion of the tt membership.

EDIT: Plus karma to MTV for tooting too and giving me +k (see in my mind THATS the sort of post that deserves karma )

Aye

Send you an invite Kza for a special tupperware party. Get in touch when you next in town.

Kza, I think you're taking karma a tad too seriously. It's gone to your head.

One question for you - if everyone hates me so much, as you'd like to believe they do, then why do I have the second largest amount of positive karma?

Pull your head out, arrogant one.

I dont think people hate you IPJ, and I dont think you deserve as low a score as you have, but hey, I am only one voice in a crowd. If this site was full of Kzas I am sure Karma would mean something else indeed. Likewise if the site was full of IPJs *shudder*

3 points :

I don't give a flying fuck as to what people think about my posts.
I am not here to judge.
Who are we to give Karma ?

@kza

And this is where we differ. I wouldn't make any assumptions about you, because we've only ever met once and only said hello to one another. You don't know me in the slightest bit - only the assumptions you've made of me - and you're so quick to judge me on that.

Edit: But I do know that you disregard great thinkers in history far more knowledgable than you or me, insisting that you know better, and that's fucking arrogant.

Edit 2: Nice one, kza, I see you keep trying to -ve me every ten minutes, just waiting for that hour limit to end. This is why the karma thing should be reset now that the limits are there. I can just see you in those first few days, clickety, clickety, click.

ipj - c'mon - summers here and we should really all be nice.

I've never met you, but you sound like you've got a pair, so I will (if I may) assume that you are the independent type of person that I like.

Now. Sun, beer and wurst.

(ps. these bugs are frigging murdering me. Its like Canada. Bit of a non sequitur, but I'm scratching my arms as I type.)

@MTV - Only replying to Kza's negative posts about me. I'm certainly not the one being unfriendly.

Firstly I havent made any assumptions or judged you have I?
Secondly I have a great deal of respect for historys great thinkers, please tell me what I must have said in some other post to make you derive this wild extrapolation.
Thirdly, its just that so many of your posts satisfy my criteria for negative karma, not all though, I remember giving you positive karma on occasions. In 25 minutes you will get some more negative for that last post though. Hope thats ok, I am just using the system for how it is designed and that last post of yours, #184 I mean, is just oozing negative karma.

Why opt out then?

Right, I assume your "all the people with negative karma deserve it" posts are regarding everyone except me, then? C'mon, kza, you and I both know I'm on the top of your list of least favorite posters.


...except for anyone having anything to do with logic and reason, which you openly disregard as useless and claim that emotion is superior to.

Right, because I almost always disagree with you. Fair enough, I suppose.


Ooh, I'm scared.

Can we all see just how stupid and infantile this fcuking karma thing is? Me included, 'cos I admit to checking mine. I feel like such a twat when I do, but I can't help it.

Why? Because it brings out the child in all of us. The need for acceptance, affirmation, popularity etc . . . .

I wish they would just do away with it. I hate to sound prosaic, but we really are like mindless proverbial moths, draw to a flame.

If I may interject in the flame fest for a second:
If one is aware that emtoion is superior to logic in an argument then LOGICALLY shouldnt one prefer to use emotion ? Simple logic really , hehe.

Yep, MTV, you're right. Whether we want to admit it or not, we're all drawn to it.

Good point, parnell...and he does.

Edit: I'm outta here...+ve karmas all around - even you, kza.

Heh I have just found another potential abuser / method of abuse of the system.
At 7:22 Someone wanted to give me bad karma for my post defending heroin dealers, fair enough, but look:
23.Jun.2005 19:22:23 anon7 gave Kza bad karma 0 236530 Error: You have chosen to opt out of the karma system.

they had decided karma was a load of nonsense and opted out.. Oh well, thats it then. But no, it must have been really important to give me negative karma, even though this person doesnt believe in the system of karma cos they manage to opt back in and get me 4 minutes later.

23.Jun.2005 19:26:35 anon7 gave Kza bad karma -5 236530

Ohhh a 5 point old schooler too. Now that it seems you can opt out when you dont want to be karmad, and simply opt back in when you want to dish karma out. Fair? I dunno, the system seems to allow it, I should really do it myself. Just one question. What happens to someones karma when they opt back in? Is it reset to zero or restored?

@Kza, nah, the karma doesn't get reset...twas just reading over that shit on the karma page.

I've found a more interesting way to get information out of the system. But I'm not going to share it, as I'm enjoying the extra information. Just like I used to enjoy seeing which members who thought they were anonymous were on board when you could actually see them via the Active Members button. Until Roots went and opened his mouth. (just kidding) So, I will enjoy knowing exactly who certain members of TT are giving their karma to until such time as the knowledge is removed from me.

To that, I couldn't disagree more. Very few of the folks at the top deserve to be there and the same is true of those at the bottom. IPJ has strong beliefs, but she is a human being. She, in her way, tries to bring out the best in theoretical debating from everyone who wants to go up against her. I myself have done so on the Big Bust theory. I tend to gravitate towards the infinite and she tends toward the finite. As there is no proof either way and cannot be (at least no one has come up with one yet), it comes down to simple beliefs. This tends to run into kza's system of pragmatism. Both can be correct because both have failures in the debate that can be taken up by the other. I am somewhat in between being a realist-a pragmatic realist actually. When it comes to the human equation, I am more in kza's corner, but when it comes to the theorist equation, then it falls naturally into IPJ's corner. That would actually put DW into the realist-theorist corner because he seems to lean more towards the theorist spectrum.
Now, I have met all of them, they are all cool people and I would party with them anytime. They deserve more karma than anyone because they are themselves and are not panzies. So, why is IPJ and myself so full of negative karma and DW and kza so full of positive?
Face it, the system is rigged. That is why I opted out long ago and I was probably the first to do so. I see people at the top of the list that are vindictive little shits. They do not deserve any positive karma because they are playing people daily.

In fact, I know one person that played the lot of you like the fools some of you are. This person was the scam artist of all times, yet you bunch fell for it hook, line and sinker. There should be an IQ test before you peeps are allowed to karma anyone.

Yeh, well, it doesn't seem to be making anyone on the board hard and fast friends, does it?

Me too on some of those bottom-dwellers. I've hung with IPJ, and while I can accept one's having an unfortunately abrasive online personality (I've been accused of same myself...), I'm just not buying into what Karma reflects.

Well, enjoy, ya'll.

I honestly wonder sometimes if people would consider my personality so abrasive if they thought I was a guy.

Wait a minute...you're not a guy?

(good question, though...even though it'll probably make me seem even more the flaming liberal than I already do to say so...)

Look ma! No karma! (kinda liberating, that...)

Too funny. I'm up 4 points since I opted out. One wonders if I'm not getting good karma for opting out of karma.

Gotta love it.

I haven't really taken much notice of this karma bullshit, but I was bored and started reading this thread from top to bottom. Then I went and had a look at the new feature. What is going on here? One can press the +karma button or the -karma button, but some people seem to only be able to give a single point at a time, many can give 2 or 3 points, and a few can give a whacking great big 5 points in a single stroke.

Editor Bob - as I said before and I'll say it again... rods and backs mate. This thing may work for the kiddies that have little hope of meeting face-to-face. I believe TT is very different.

Move over comrades, I'm with you. I got nothing to loose as I am level in this little kids game (+74/-74).

If you look even closer, you will see where a post (poster) gets a -5 thrown at it, but the post was also given plus karma by several with lesser points to give. So three new people found it positive, but one old fart makes it negative overall. Yeah, I would say that that is fair.

does anyone know what the rules are as to how much karma each person can give? I mean what determines whether you get to give 5, 4(?), 3(?), 2 or 1 karma points?

I'm not sure why he hasn't posted it yet, but when we were having this discussion the other day, I shot off a PM to Editor Bob to ask him. It goes by the length of time one has been a member. Here's the deal:

> 3 months: 2 points
> 18 months: 3 points
> 21 months: 4 points
> 24 months: 5 points

I honestly don't see the point in giving those who have been around longer more points, because the length of time someone has been around TT does not make their opinion any more or less valid than anyone else's. Except maybe there should be a "newbie phase" of fewer points (say 4-6 months), to avoid people from making up new user names solely for karma purposes.

so far opt-outers have been called cowards and communists, what will the next one be infidels? heathens? deviates?

How about just plain smart.

I was thinking insurgents.

Actually, if you all don't like the system, why are you all even bothering to bitch about it? Any chance of you taking the higher road and saying nothing about it, since either A, you have opted out and it doesn't affect you or B; you seriously don't care enough to worry about it either way.

But no, I suppose stomping the ground, crossing your arms in front of you and screaming "It's not FAIR!!" is better for us all.

Obviously in Editor Bob's world all men are not created equal. I opted out because I do not want to be part of a system where I do not have the same rights as my fellow citizens. Mama always told me what is vindaloo for goose is vindaloo for gander. What gives Showem the power to unleash 5 -ve points? If anything, she should be stripped off her karmic powers cuz as we all know she is evil incarnate.

I might opt back in when this whole thing is scrapped, reset and everyone is given the same power. Until then, I continue to revolt and continue to believe that Editor Bob is solely responsible for all the problems in this world.

So who is in for the the next communist meeting?

Remember comrades, the "revolution" is coming. I can smell it in the air

If it smells like curry, count me in!