Tax refunds on leaving Germany

I have been told by many people that if I return home within 2 years of coming to Germany to work I’m entitled to get all my tax back after 2 more years. The catch is I would not be able to work in Germany again.

Now, I’m Australian, and, most of the people who have told me this were also Aussies, so I’m not sure if the is an Australian-German tax office agreement (hard to imagine) or if it just comes from the German side and applies to all non EU countries. I have no firm info on this - to date it’s all just been word of mouth.

What I want find out is:

1) Is there any truth to this

2) When do the two years count from. Is it from the time you first registered as living here, or is it from the time you first payed tax. I ask because for the first 6 months while I was here I was a Praktikant, and not paying any Tax (though the Finanzamt was fully aware I was earning money here – afterall, they had to issue a tax-exemption).

I’m not interested in hearing stories of how contractors dodge their way out of tax. I have a standard 9-5 tax paying job.

Thanks in advance if anyone can share some info on this.

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you maybe thinking of the state pension refunds rather than income tax. As for every bit of tax advice I would go to some kind of company.

as far as I know you certainly can't get all your tax back but as a non EU person you can claim back the money you have paid into the state pension system (RV on your pay slip)...allegedly

I doubt they're going to give you any income tax back. As previously mentioned, I think you can get your contributions to the pension system back as long as you don't stay longer than 5 years.

No, im not talking about the RV. I know you get that back if you leave within 5. I am talking about "TAX".

Its not just 1 or 2 people who have told me about this, im talking atleast a dozen over the past year. i was hoping one of them read this forum.

For TAX, it depends on when you leave. But that applies to ANYONE and not just non-EU Citizens.

German tax years run from 1/1 to 31/12 and you are taxed through the year as if you would be living in Germany for that whole year.

If however you leave on 30th June for example, you would have have paid roughly speaking, double the tax you should have becasue you were only resident for half the year.

So at the end of the tax year you make a German tax return, state that you left the country on 30th June and about 6 weeks later they will pay out!

For any calendar year you were wholly in Germany, that money has gone.

For the welfare payments, someone has explained it above.

I think your Aussie mates had had one too many Fosters when they told you that. I can't think of any logical reason for getting all of your tax back

@MonksTown

i follow the basic logic of that, but what happens if you then move on 30th june to another job in another country, where you are earning a bunch of cash and paying tax in that country? do you need to declare your overseas income in your german tax return? my understanding is that you only make a saving here if you leave on hols or to travel (and not work, "on the books")

AFAIK Latecomer, you DON'T have to declare income outside of Germany in that scenario.

It's rather a basic one and assumes of course that you have no other incomes, worked as a standard employee etc etc.

What MIGHT be an idea for Bob the Builder is to go to one of those companies that will work out his tax now and pay it out now - a % fee.

@MonksTown

that just doesn't add up to me. either you taxed on whole-world income, or you not taxed at all. i will be checking it out though!

@BTB - I heard something similar to this just recently. I'll have to refresh my memory and get back to you, but I don't think you're mistaken, at least not fully.

In terms of Germany Latecomer you are taxed on whole-world income for the time you live in Germany. But there are of course a whole lot of intracasices and complications. I know nothing about them being a poor and humble monk pocessing little more than a begging bowl and a rough woollen cloak.

oh the hessian underthings!

likeasay i will check on it. can't see why they would give you a full years allowances if you only live here half a year. then there is the tax you will be paying in your new job. tricky stuff.

BtB,

You are correct. Most non-EU citizens can get their tax back if they leave Germany within two years.

There are conditions to this, and I understand it is now more difficult to convince them you meet the criteria.

You need a good Steurerberater to help you - before you talk to the Finanzamt.

ok I didn't read this phrase that carefully. You could be right I guess from the responses here. Nice if its true!

Thanks for your replies everyone.

I understand the concept of RV returns, I understand the concept of whole world tax, and I know when financial years star and end!

As RockThrust and IPJ confirmed, if you leave within 2 years, such an agreement of getting *all* your tax back two years after you leave does exists. It is just unknown to most, and there are many conditions to it (such as your not really welcome back here!!!). I was hoping I could work out the basic eligibility requirements without contacting a tax-profi.

Contract extension time comes up soon and I was thinking along the lines of what a shame it would be to stay just longer than 2 years and miss out on getting all that tax back. I figured go the whole hog and stay for 5, or leave before 2.

Outstanding questions:
- When do the 2 years count from, when you arrived, or when you first paid tax?
- What do you get back, purely the “what do they do with that� portion, or also the socialversicherungs/kirchensteuer/arbeitslosengeld portions also?
- Are the laws regarding this documented online? Given that it a scheme designed for non-germans, one would think some official guidelines would be available in English.

Beirgarten time...thanks everyone.

Somewhere I heard that you get the RV that you contributed back but you do not get back your companies matching amount. I hope this is not true

Its right... u only get the RV, the portion you have made contribution for. you would not get the employer´s contribution. more details here... Pension refunds on leaving Germany and www.trust7.com

I just read a thread on another board saying that this rule applies to English teachers who come from a country where the native language is English and stay in Germany less than 2 years (I assume that the 2 year period starts with your first day of employment). Furthermore, you have to be employed as this does not apply to freelancers. I cannot vouch for this information as it may apply to other jobs as well but in any case, I would not get too excited because chances are that even if you could get out of paying the tax in Germany you'd probably still be legally required to pay tax on that income in Australia or wherever else. For Americans this is definitely true.

EDIT: Staying in Germany longer than 2 years means that you will have to pay all taxes retroactively which were not deducted from your paycheck.

I have now re-read this forum many times trying to clarify when you guys are talking about TAX (and here I think you mean Income Tax???) and when you guys are talking about Rentenversicherung.

Here is my question, to end my confusion:

Are you unable to return to Germany for work if you refund your Rentenversicherung? Or, was that just meant for when you want a refund for the Income Tax?

I have heard if you get the RV back it is very difficult to return to work in Germany

I have heard that if you work in Germany for 3<5 years that when you leave the country you may be able to get back all of the money you have paid into the German tax system. Has anyone else heard this? Do you know of a good website (preferably English) that explains the German tax system more in depth. I work as a contractor here, pay German taxes, file every year... etc. Just wondering if I will get any of this money back when I leave.

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A few links from expatica

What to do when you leave Germany

Insurance refunds when leaving Germany

Basically, it doesn't seem like you can get refunds on your income tax (really, why would you? the state wants to be paid for the services it provided you as a resident while you were living here), but there seems to be a possibility to get a refund on some of the social insurance stuff you paid.

If you stop working / leave though at any time during the year you should file a tax return after the end of that year and you will be rewarded back paid income tax pro-rata. ie half of it if you stopped working on 31st July.

You DO NOT get your Income Tax back.. What you get back is your Oldage/Pension $$, which can still be a nice chunk of change..

This has been covered here many times before. Please use the serach function.

For whole years correct, but you receive a proporrtion for part years.
Was a nice bit of money.

I did a search for this and could not find anything. Does anyone know what the process if for getting the German tax return back after having worked here for a year?

Any advice, suggestions would be appreciated!

Does Tax refunds on leaving Germany help? Post up if you get any updated info please

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Thank you, just read through the thread . What I mean is how do you file your tax return from another country ie. England. What forms do you fill out, are there any in English, where can you get them, etc.

Don't know really since I use a tax advisor but here's links to German Tax Forms. Never seen them in English though...

Hey BTB, I don't know about the German taxation system, but if you are returning to Australia part way through an Australian financial year (1st July - 31st June), then you may be able to offset tax paid in Germany against your taxation liabilities in Australia. This partly depends on whether you are considered 'resident' for tax purposes during the year - this is not the same as resident for immigration purposes, but generally means that you have been in Australia for 183 days or more during that Australian financial year.

There may well be a double taxation offset agreement between Australia and Germany and I would recommend that you contact the ATO for specific advice; you can do that by email through their website, and this ATO page will help you at least work out the Aussie end of it, which is just as important as the German part.

Good luck.

When we left Canada they assumed we stopped working at that point and filed our income tax forms accordingly. What that means is that we had income for only half a year but were taxed as if we worked the whole year. In other words we paid too much income tax etc and thusly a year latter when we filed our returns we got a nice chunk of change.

When we moved to Germany having worked only half a year they requested a copy of our Canadian T4 slip (the form every employer must send out stating your income earned and taxes paid) I dont' know what they did but they reduced our tax refund from like 6000 DM to 600 instead. I'm guessing its something along the lines of a tax treaty that avoids double taxation or something.

Now that were leaving Germany Oct 1st to move to Spain I'm wondering if they're going request a copy of our Spanish pay cheques to determine what we earned.

I'll post once I find out.

Along the same lines what about filing your taxes? If you leave half way though the year you've paid taxes as if you worked the whole year, and hense should be due a nice refund.

This is what happened when we left Canada

Topic reassignment by admin

Before anyone says anything I know this sounds strange but I thought I read the following somewhere and thought I'd run it by you guys before taking it to a tax consultant.

What I read was that if you are a foreigner working in Germany (not sure if it was European or Non-European), and if you return home to your country before you have been in Germany for 5 years, then you are entitled to claim back the majority of the tax you have paid while you were in Germany.

I know that health insurance and some other things etc. will be exempt from this, and it does sound odd, but why not be able to claim back the long term disability insurance for example if you are no longer to be able to avail of it?

Any comments will be appreciated.

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I like the sound of this one!

If true my arse will be out of this country in exactly 21 months, 14 days, 7 hours and 36 minutes.

for non EU people you can claim back the pension part I believe

There is also something about claiming all tax for non Eu people (or maybe it was just Aussies) i believe - its appeared on TT before - I think you have to promise to never come back!

OK, you need to be VERY clear what you are talking about.

Tax or social welfare insurances.

Tax
ANYONE can claim back if they cease to live in Germany during the calendar year which in Germany is the tax year. Your tax is deducted assuming you would live the whole year in Germany. If you leave on 30th June, you can, after 31st December for example claim HALF the TAX back.

Social welfare insurances.
If you are a citizen of / go to etc , check the rules a country with which Germany has a social security treaty (and that includes all the EU) you can NOT claim anything back. The credit are shifted round in the "pot".
For other people, SOME of the paid in social welfare benefits can be reclaimed in some circumstances. Obviously health you can't claim back.

Damn. Another excuse foiled to escape to somewhere else. Back to work I guess.

Hi,

I know this topic has been covered already but have seen a few different opinions so would appreciate some clarification.

I left Germany on the 31st July 2006. I will have worked 3 out of the 5 remaining months in Ireland in 2006. I know on the tax form there is a section where they ask for details of employment elsewhere. Do people normally declare their employment in another country? If not what do you say - unemployed? - went travelling? Do you need to provide proof of eg. unemployment benefits or travel tickets?

What are people's experiences with this?

Thanks,

Rosie

You would normally have to tell them of your income abroad, and this would then raise your tax threshold.

For example, you earn 10,000 euros in Ireland and you earn 30,000 euros up until 31st July, 2006 in Germany. Without this German income, you would pay virtually no tax as 10,000 euros yearly income would not be taxed heavily if at all. However, if you tell them about Germany, you will have to pay the tax rate from 30k to 40k, so I guess in this scenario you will lose a third or your money (I'm not sure how much Ireland taxes).

You could leave out the German income, but that would be a lie, and I guess if you were caught you'd have to pay a fine.

social security benifit:

I worked from 2003-2004 for eight months, then I went to my home country. After completing of two years, I claimed my social security (RV). I got it back.

Now I have come back and started contributing again for the social security. Now I have following question:

1. Is it possible that once I go back again, then I will be able to claim my new contributions after two years ?
2. From when the counting of 5 years begin, from the new date of job in Germany or it will add up the previous 8 months also.

Hi all,

Five weeks left before I'm back in Sydney and I have a few questions regarding tax! I hope someone can assist (and I just read this entire post!).

I started working in Germany in March 2005 (only place in Europe ever) and will finish officially end of February 2007. So this is just under or is 2 years working in Germany/Europe. So, as it's under the 5 year period, I suppose this means I can attempt to get half of my pension back in 2 years. Correct?

Next thing is the actual tax return. I haven't done one at all (because I'm afraid of my HECS debt - Aussies here know what this is - and some freelance website work, but whatever, I'll deal with it later), and today I asked the HR department if I could get a statement for 2005 and she said no and that I could never ever do a tax return for that year. Surely this is BS?!?!?! How can this be possible? The next thing this lovely lady told me is that they will not be sending anything out for 2006 until March. Fine, forward it to my Sydney address. And then she told me that it's pointless sending it there because I can't file an income tax return from Australia. WHAT THE?! Is this woman on drugs or is it really true??? And yes, there's the two months I've worked in 2007, but that would come under her "not in Germany, no tax return for you" law.

Any insight would be greatly appreciated!!!

Thanks heaps in advance,
Rachel

Can any body suggest what kind of tax refund can one claim upon leaving Germany after 6-8 months of job in Germany.One is for sure the Pension fund.What are the others?
Also can anybody provide the link to download the Pension refund form since "Deutsche Rentenversicherung" is all in German & very difficult to find V 900 form

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Sorry, but it seems that the form is available only in German:

http://www.deutsche-rentenversicherung.de/...rung/V0900.html

Thanks for the reply.Besides Pension Insurance refund,what kind of other refunds are possible assuming that I have a double household both in my home country & in Germany

There are some English-language resources, but finding them seems to require knowledge of German.

The German Embassy in the US has a short paragraph in English buried in
http://www.germany.info/relaunch/info/cons...urity.html#beit
More importantly, they have a PDF file of a German/English contribution refund form:
http://www.germany.info/relaunch/info/cons...tattung-D-E.pdf

The Deutsche Rentenversicherung agency also has an English-language PDF booklet with good information about topics as they apply to foreigners:
http://www.deutsche-rentenversicherung.de/...europa_englisch

Americans may also find this dual-language brochure helpful--it describes the agreement between Germany and the US with regard to pensions/social security:
http://www.deutsche-rentenversicherung.de/...schland_und_usa

The English version begins on page 51.

I've been told that there will be a chunk of euros which can be claimed back from the stuff that was taken by the government from wages. Details about how to do this haven't been clear though so I could really do with a little more information on the process.

I think there's a specific building that I need to go to where a form is filled out to make the claim for the rebate. Does this sound correct and where abouts is this tax building (and would they provide more information on the process of getting tax money back).

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I am not sure if this applies to you. You should consider editing your profile so that others know whom they are talking to (nationality-wise).

From what I know, some part (or all) of the social security payments can be claimed back after repatriating.

More details here.

Regards,
Bandu.

Actually he should edit his entire post.

Yeah, there's a specific building, it's on the main street in the town called No Information.

Excuse me, I'm in a bad mood, but your post is that of an utter fuckwit - if you don't mind my saying so.