New Mosque in Munich Sendling

I just watched a documentary on Bayerisches Fernsehen where they talked about recent discussions to build a big new mosque in Sendling. Apparently, the neighborhood is quite agitated, with lots of people arguing passionately for and against the project (the Catholic church and City Hall seem to like it a lot). Just curious - how do people react to new mosques in the US, Britain, Australia, etc.? Is it a big deal, or just business as usual?

I know in Canada that there is sometimes complaining as well when something like a new Sikh temple is built. It's subsidized by the government which ticks people off.

There's been a discussion about the building of a mosque in my home town (a relatively wealthy small town in comparison to others nearby) for a couple of years now. The town council don't want one. As there is a relatively high number of muslims in the town and the surrounding area, there is however need for one... Don't ask me what they have against it - well actually, it's racism as far as I can tell - if we have a mosque, more muslims will move into the town... whatever...

Right wing, CSU voting, suburban Germans in anti-Turkish racist shocker!

I'd be interested to see the reaction if the boot was on the other foot and someone wanted to build a church in Istanbul or Tehran though.

Istanbul has plenty of churches

Doesn't mean they want another one though does it?

true

I am married to a Turk and can say that Germans do not seem to have a problem with mosques as long as the Turks/Islamic population pays for them themselves, and they do not compromise the neighboring surroundings. There is a mosque in Pasing on the Planeggerstrasse, which has the two minarets, but doesn't stand out too much, but I know for fact that this mosque was built through donations. My husband, although not religious, gets hit up for donations all the time. Besides that in the Pasinger islamic community there has not been any uproar from the German contingent, so far I know.

There's the issue though isn't it.

Great hulking church tower at the end of my street is OK to block out the sun and those bloody beels that start ringing on a Sunday when I've a stinking hangover - that's OK. But the minute there's a new mosque people try and hide behind "oooh the minarets don't really go with the architechtual harmony" of this neighbourhood".

And who do they thing pays for mosques? It's not like churches where its raised out of taxation! A LOT of mosques in germany are actually financed by the Turkish government as a means to try and maintain a hold on Turks living in Germany.

I was working in Tehran and I was surprised that in this theocratic conservative country they'd have so many churches. And no I don't think that it would be a problem if someone would like to build more there -especially with the current balance in the political scene. I was talking about religion with many people there and they seemed to be quite open minded although very religious. In fact I knew lots of people that were Muslims but they would go to a catholic or Orthodox church for praying

I thought that under Islamic law, existing christian churches were OK, but new ones were not allowed? Pretty sure I read something about christian churches in Pakistan along those lines

it prob depends on where - there are two new churches being built right now in one particular town in northern iraq, i'm told

probably the taliban wouldn't have allowed it, but they were complete nutjobs anyway
dunno about pakistan or saudi, they are moselm states, maybe it is a bit stricter there

Turkey doesn't follow Islamic law. It is a secular state. Still doesn't necessarily mean they want more churches, but remember it was once head of the Orthodox church, so there's plenty of history going for it there.

Could you please tell me what did you read about the christian churches in pakistan? I would really like to know about it because there are lot of misconceptions in the minds of people about Pakistan?

@lovelybug

I don't know about particular churches being built in Pakistan but I know for a fact that my church in Munich regularly evangelises in Pakistan albeit at times with armed protection but there's nothing really against them going there to preach the gospel.

Some people might try stop them or make it difficult but If I'm correct they do not get opposition from the government.

how do people react to new mosques in the US?

One would think that new mosques would be a problem in the US South, but in Atlanta it has not been a big deal. Big article today in our main paper - ajc.com - about a relatively new mosque that continues to expand and diversify in an affluent suburban area (that is so conservative that it is served by the Congressman who is leading the move to repeal the federal income tax).

3 thoughts:

1. It is a bit perverse, but in the South, as long as one professes SOME form of monotheism, and adheres to some religion, then they garner some measure of respect. Even the Southern Baptists seem to have stopped trying to convert the Jews.

2. Many conservative Christians have a begrudging respect for devout Muslims, almost as if they think, "If only Christians were so committed..."

3. I also think that part of the reactionary psychology is "As long as they are praying at the mosque, I can see them out in the open, and I know they are not bombing part of my community."

"Hear, hear!"

I read it a couple of years ago or so - it was when I had one of those awful jobs where you have to sit at a desk in an office, so I read most of the internet whilst I worked there. It was an article on treatment of religious minorities in Pakistan, and mentioned that although existing christian churches are "allowed", new ones could not be built, and existing ones were being attacked and destroyed. I do not remember if it mentioned an actual law banning the construction of new churches, or if there was more of an unwritten bureaucracy where churches were not given planning permission or something.
The Amnesty International site probably has loads of info on it, but its always nigh on impossible to read through - any articels on treatment of x,y or z religious minorites in muslim lands inevitably get completely lost in vague laws on blasphemy that are applied inconsistently across the board it seems to me.

LOL ... I am sorry but i could not stop myself from laughing.. internet is ia source of lot of propaganda ... For example whenever i want to read jokes I read the News on CNN... So I dont know where do u read the news like this... There have been attacks in paksitan in Mosques but as far as I know and my information is there was only one such event on Church few years back... but who was behind that attack ... i dont know... What about india where the fanatics destroyed the great babri mosque in 1990 and they are still attacking... what about the yesterdays news which was saying that 3 muslims were killed in thailand when they were praying... and i thik no body would have forgotton few months back how more then 100 muslims were killed in thailand without any reason .
I am sure that in last 50 years in Pakistan there may have been a couple of incidents ... like in every country of the world... but as a whole the minorities are safe ... specially the Hindus are richer than Muslims there in Pakistan
... Amnestry international They only see the problems in countries like paksitan but not in Iraq , Afghanistan etc. where severe violation of humans ( if people living there can be considered as humans at all) are going on.

Lovelybug, you obviously have a few prejudices of your own.

As far as I remeber ... it can differ from city to city... may be you are talking abotu Karachi... It can happen there ... but it can happen with everybody , not only with minorities...
I tell you one interesting thing... I belong to a small city of Paksitan. We here in Germany are not allowed to call for prayer on Loudspeakers but Christians in my city back in Paskitan used to Pray and say hymns loudly on loudspeakers. Every week when we were playing cricket I user to lsiten thatt... haylay luyaa... but the problem now is that people beleive everything about Pakistan what the media says...

hello??
what are they, then, if not human?

You are right... i am not ashamed of confessing it... I think most of the persons in this world have prejudices till certain level... may be i am wrong

Yeah, but lots of us don't go around claiming people from certain countries are sub-human.

They are humans of course but they are being treated like humans... they are being killed by the Liberators ( i mean the US) without disctinction between the terrorist and innocent citizens

No ... I think you misunderstood... I was making a joke... I meant infact that peolpe in these countries are not like being treated as human beings... Of course I never think that they are not human beings... I am sorry for this wrong english (i hope you can forgive me.. I am not a native speaker of english.. so I can make mistakes)

@lovelybug - Do I detect just a teensy bit (read: huge) of bias on your part?

Gee, no Pakistanis are killing people indiscriminantly. A Sunni kills some Shiites, and what do you get?

You are right.. this event happened... But it was not targeted on minorities.. it was between Sunnis and Shittes... I confess that things like this happened ... and these should not happen... but this is certainly a different topic... I think we were discussing the attacks on Minorities not the contention between Sunnis and Shiittes...

Lovelybug, whilst we can discuss the impartiality of CNN, I don't think you can claim Amnesty International is biased.

They have criticised human rights violations in Iraq, in Afghanistan, in Pakistan.
They have criticised human rights violations in America, in Britain, in Germany.

Then I'd really appreciate it if you'd share some references to the US (or individual Americans) indiscriminantly killing civilians.

Amnesty International has a big problem with the death penalty IPJ. Those convicted are civilians.

Lovelybug, okay, I see what you are talking about now. Certainly wasn't clear at first, but now I get it.

I lived opposite a mosque once, and the calling for prayer shit drove me nuts. I lived on Kaiserplatz once, and the fucking church bells on a sunday morning drove me nuts.
Utterly unneccesary noise.
Luckily, the only loudspeaker stuff we get out here are the occasional announcements that there is some fest or other going on, and we should all come down for beer. Hurrah!

First of all : more then 10000 civilians have been killed in Iraq uptill know ... and there was no weapons of mass destruction there... not even one Alqaeda network... and even the moving biological labs that the Collin Powel claimed in Security council by showing the settlite images... Who were those civilialn ? What happened in Faluuja? they sealed the city and killed lot of people .. even the Red cross was not allowed to go inside the city

About AFGHANISTAN . I dont keep the records of the new that I read but I still remeber one event. There was a marrige going on and they bombed the festival... and later they said that there were "suspected alqaeda terrorists"... So using this hide they can and are killing whichever they want... and by the way CIA trained all these people before they were declared terrorist -- laden family had close relations with bush family any comments

I agree with lovelybug, +karma.

Ah, I see what you're trying to say, and I totally agree with you about so many civilians dying. It sounded above like you were trying to claim that the US or individual Americans specifically targeted civilians.

No IPJ, I beleive Amnesty has criticised for example the penal justice system in the USA where minorities are vastly over-rrepresented.

I wasn't USA-bashing, you'll notice I've clearly said that both britain and germany are criticised by AI too. I just wanted to point out that AI is not "just" criticising countries like Pakistan.

Um, MonksTown, I didn't claim you were USA-bashing. In fact, I was talking to lovelybug, not you.

back to the original issue of a new Mosque in Sendling...

so i received an invite, as a local Sendling resident, to the Buergerversammlung (open council meeting) on Thursday 13 July and i have also been canvassed to vote against this ...just wondered if any other TT Sendlingers are going to this ??

Are you against it? Which way will you vote?

currently, i will vote against it but i will try and keep an open mind and see what's said at the meeting first ...assuming i can get there in time (due to work). i have sent my passport off for a couple of visas so hopefully a photocopy and my tattered old EU-Aufenthaltserlaubnis will still allow me to vote ...need to read the invitation and other information again before I swan on up there though...

there is already a Mosque in Sendling that had an open day a few months ago ...more or less a hall on the corner of Implerstrasse ...so no minarette or Istanbul-stylee architecture. i am really casting my vote against anything religious that somebody wants to build in my neighbourhood ...a new church, a new synagogue, a new statue of buddah, a new mosque, a new flying saucer for some far out religious sect, etc, etc

...still, i will see what is said and do some reading up...

I probably am slightly biased, but I think minarets are cool (as long as there are no loadspeakers), and one of the loveliest mosques I've seen in Western Europe is the one in Regent's Park in London. Gold dome, huge crystal chandalier and marble pavings slabs. All paid from donations by varying Muslim countries and the public. I also love architecturally great churches. Anything which brings together a community, offers a place of worship and meeting, can't be bad. And this being Bavaria, it's not going to be a hotbed of terrorist meetings and planning sessions. Seems like racism from the German community, but maybe acockreland2balls - you'll be able to clarify the situation after the meeting.


Under Islamic law, other religions and followers of those religions are to be respected and allowed to worship in peace (we're not talking about fundamentalists such as the Taliban here). As for church building in Pakistan, there's a church on the corner of my street in Islamabad - very modern and definately new.

I would probably just flick a coin, or auction my vote to the highest bidder. I mean what a silly thing to vote on anyway. Whoever owns the land should build whatever they want.

can women pray in the mosques in Germany?

The mosques I know of in London have a separate area for the ladies. It's not mandatory for women to go to the mosque - and so I guess it depends on size.

I know of Mosques in England that are full of drugs and the Older Muslims have stopped going because of it. The Police cant raid the Mosque as its a "Religious Building" so many things are going on there which shouldnt be doing. Another scam involving bad Muslims and Mosques is setting up a Charity to get money for Kashmir-but no money goes there. 2 Guys were sent down for doing this I read in Northern England. This probably applys to most religions that People try connecting things to a religion/Church but is in fact a scam. MORAL-Keep away from Religion!

Drugs and religion have always gone hand in hand, since our species first mystical experiences after ingesting hallucinogenic fungii. Even christianity involves the consumption of wine which contains the drug alcohol. The rastafarians use cannabis. Many native american religions also involve the use of various hallucinogens. There was a recent study made on magic mushrooms with particular emphasis on its spiritual properties.
http://www.abc.net.au/science/news/health/...ish_1682610.htm


Yeah, and drugs too, if your the sort of person who generally fears such things.

Why fear Religion? Its the people who claim to do things in the name of Religion you have to fear!

The people in the USA probably don't get all up in arms about new mosques. However, the feds would most likely have the whole building bugged and have round the clock surveillance. They probably will have 15 page files on every male worshipper between the ages of 12 - 80.

If they are too fat they don't get let in?