New Mosque in Munich Sendling

Not, saying this vote is not about the mosque, but I have been told that in Germany to construct anything there is vote because the will change for the neighborhood. Or something weird and along those lines.

From what I am reading..most of you have very little idea or "true" contact with these people... I live right in the center of them and the Islamic culture here in the Saudi Arabia...and I will tell you straight out...you DO NOT want a mosque in your back yard... In short, the West does lead the way of "example" setting by allowing religious freedom for the people... unlike here, where in the eyes/heads of this culture or should I say Islam (for they truly believe they are the chosen of all kind) there is NO other religion but Islam and all others are infidel / Zionists. Period... I have had our Arab speaking "westerns" translate some of the Friday afternoon prayers for me, especially in the last few months...they continually preach…spread the faith at all costs…in a nutshell it is their way or you have to go...hate to say it, but it is the truth... For example, one of the Bangladesh Muslim workers told me, if he were to attempt to leave the faith...he would be killed by his own...for he has disgraced or tainted the family…Of course that is one of many many bad things happening here towards the third country national (TCNS) as they are called here and Westerners as far as “obeying their ways�... Just keep this in mind, in this culture...everything is negotiable at all times...it is very tribal...close net... limited openness to others...the Muslims Do Not like to assimilate into the society...and they always, always want things their way... I suggest the city and its people take some notes from the British and French...they are one step from disaster...

P.S. Women have virtually no rights..that is why it is optional for them to go for one...look what they just did in Mecca their Holy place..increased the "Male" only area and put the women and children further waway because there was not enough room for the Men...

do you always post in morse code?

@alexsam: thanks for that post, up till now I had just assumed it was a different culture, different religion and any judgements I make were only going to be colored by my subjective cultural worldview.

Fucking muslim bastards, if it wasnt for your post I would have never known how backward and inferior they really are. Cheers for the headsup mate!

And to think they say people never change their opinions as a result of a web forum post...

Silly Point..no code...just call it as I experience it... If you are really open to understanding or should I say want to read about this place..a great article published is called "The Fall of The House of Saud"...it will be an eye opener for you and others on this forum...sad part..it is so true... Over time, I will post much more about Islam and this region... Many lessons learned on this job assigment...4 months to go...then Munich here I come!!!

http://www.dunamai.com/articles/Islam/fall...use_of_saud.htm

Enjoy...

Please don't, being one of those downtrodden women, your posts do nothing but confirm you as a bigot.

You site Saudi - the home of Wahabism as your example of the entire religion and its people! I note you're located in Dubai - you not enjoying those sunset G&Ts at the beach, and the club filled with the foxy babes after dinner? Or is Dubai not an Islamic Emirate and thus trying to convert you to the 'true faith'?

People who post in such a black and white manner such as yourself truly madden me.

FYI - I'd take Kza's post with a pinch of salt, irony you know...

After reading the article, something seemed a little ..well not quite right .. So I did a quick scratch around and low and behold... the hosters and supports of this article have this mission statement.




Looks like part of the Far right fanatical god squad that runs the Republican party !!

Interesting read... but a little dramatic and biased IMHO!!

Lesson number one being "you should not have gone". If you don't like Islam, don't live on their turf I say.

I lived at peace with Saudis in the east of the Kingdom. I had a few Saudi acquaintances both deep Muslim and also Westernised and I respected each equally.

Our religion was tolerated as long as we were discreet. On Christmas Day very often Saudis would say Hapy Christmas to me! Bear in mind it was a normal working day officially, but most of us Westerners "disappeared" on that day to be with their families. Some of us singles were simply nursing hangovers...

Life there (I am talking pre 9/11) was extremely laid back and I in many ways miss the Kingdom and the formerly peaceful atmosphere.

btw there were churches hidden. There is even a 6th century Nestorian church at Jubail, a fave day trip of many expats.

And what really has me bewildered as a former German citizen…no matter what anyone posts here…people are kicking in the doors to become American citizens…why if you think we are such bad people…??? Jealously, great lifestyles, FREEDOM, ..hell you tell me…..

Wrong thread mate.
Nobody here has said that the Yanks are blood sucking scum. The Saudis probably want to emigrate because of the booze and loose women, keeping the wives and kids back home where they belong.

ohh im having knightsbridge flashbacks ... *shudders*

My hood so you know what I mean...

now you've got me worried, knightsbridge is deffinatly reverse colonialism

Or those cheating natives done good... well, only if your posts are anything to go by.
Or, as is the case, those natives who used the Raj for their own benefits i.e. education, and reaped their own integral, above board, hard working rewards.

i was thinking more petro-dollars, not pakistani-dinners but...

Absolutely - good old pater being a petroleum engineer and mater a consultant of that distinguished institution that is the NHS...

so more petro dentist then?

More petro-slumber...

So you guys have seen the devil dance.in your neck of the woods... You are thinking correctly..my last business trip to Hong Kong..we stopped in Manila..the Saudis went straight for the bar... Of course I just had to ask what was up...I was told that "Allah" cannot see them unless they are in KSA, this is where Allah can watch them...I am not shittin you...one of many things I have learned during my assigment here...

Yeah, that a lot of people talk shite a lot of the time... No shit!!!

I heared that Lord mayer Ude was booed down at a public meeting in Sendling last week.
If the CSU decide to play the race card for the next council elections this issue could cost the SPD dearly.

By "race card," do you mean that someone tells the truth about certain racial issues and actually dares to make a politically incorrect statement. Perish the thought. We should all just smile and be nice no matter what the situation. Now, I am off to float in the pool reading my daily mail, daily express and sipping a cuppa in my Thatcher mug.

By the "race card" I mean such arguments as

(paraphrase)

NO to ANY mosque in Sendling
DANGER! Munich schools will have more muslims that christian pupils by 2010!
We need to protect the Bavarian culture from outside influences

etc etc

sad that this topic is still up-to-date. this debate about a mosque is annoying me so much.
Can anyone give me one valid reason why there shouldn't be a mosque in munich? just let them build their mosque, PLEASE.

That is more or less a very very accurate description. In areas where the Wahabi strain has taken root, religious freedom takes a big hit and by threat/violence, everything else is wiped off. The plight of Ahmadiyyas in Pakistan is an example.

Over the years, the standard practices of Muslims in areas where they are a minority are

- to play the victim card (read the recent "we are like the Jews" from UK)
- after every terrorist attack, make statements like "Islam is a religion of peace...the perpetrators are not true Muslims"
- seek and establish areas where neighbourhoods are entirely Muslim , thereby establiching total control over areas where native laws are disregarded ( Bradford for e.g)

Islam itself can morph into a dormant or violent version depending on the location.
The victim card will be played until the mosque is established.

Because in German Mosche sounds like Muschi and who wants one of those down the street for strange men to go in and out of.

The new slimmed down mosque plans are available to view at the council from today.
According to the SZ, there has been hardly anyone going to look at the plans but there are already anti mosque leaflets going around being described as "borderline" to "hate filled".

It really sucks that the world is that way. As a society, we have what we intended.

They should do it like in Istanbul...build a mosque and a church next to each so the neighbours will go crazy from hearing bells and calls to prayer all day long.

It's that way in Sarajevo and look what happened there...

I see allot of prejudice here. I can pinpoint the violent incidents belonging to a country or religion from History, you just yourself name it. The current media attention towards Islam or Muslim is now a days of several political issues. Yes it is true too terrorist attacks have happened on those belonging to this religion. But I would totally disagree with you that followers are playing card of being a victim. Don’t go further just take in Germany which religion or followers have played the 'victim card' to what extend and how much has been cashed. I am not disputing the facts behind that.

Coming to your comments to Pakistan, I do think that not reflecting the reality. I do think that this country has relatively higher tolerance towards minorities than any else country in the region. I am certainly not comparing with Germany or the US. OK, let’s compare it with ‘biggest democracy of world’.

• In history of Pakistan there has been no genocide of any minority. (Exceptional harassment and isolated terrorist incident I am certainly not ruling out). Yes, Ahmedis are some time harassed in Pakistan but they have no threat to their existence there. They have certain restrictions over how freely they can display or preach their version of Islam. There has been no incident where they have been killed in thousands just because of their religion.
• In India, 1992, a high number of Hindu fundamentalist fanatics destroyed centuries old Bari Mosque by claiming some evidence that there was a temple there before. I can imagine a better method than this to originate a conflict and demolish symbolic religious sites of other religion. In subsequent riots more than 2000 people were killed with Majority of Muslims. Nobody played or let play the victim card. Further that BJP and their associates who organized that event were come to power later and ruled India for five years. Nobody felt some wrong has happened in that ‘democracy’. In Pakistan, you name which such bigger and famous religious site is destroyed by Islamic fanatics? Each year thousands Sikhs from India comes to visit their holy places in Pakistan, Government facilities their visits. If there were also terrorist like RSS or BJP etc, Punja Sahab, Nankana sahib religious shrines of Sikhs would have not existed. Some time meet those Sikhs who go back after visiting Pakistan, and see what impression they get during their stay in Pakistan.
• In 2002, again in 21st century a government of fanatics burned alive more than 2000 persons, mainly Muslims in Gujarat, India. Nobody played or let them play victim card. Even, inversely, those fanatics or terrorists still are hero there among local Hindu population and in power. Can you name some like this happened in Pakistan?
• In late 90’s (I cant remember the exact year), an Australian Christian preacher was burned alive in his car along with his son just because of his preaching in India. Pakistan no preacher has been ever killed. I certainly can’t give you guaranty if you go to Pakistan and start bashing badly sensitive’s of locals there. If you don’t do this, I don’t think you are going to be burned alive.

This only seems a bashing which is now a day’s very easy and nicely fashioned to prove oneself an intelligent brilliant intellectual.
No offense towards anybody please

Whoever judges a person's character by his/her faith/looks/colour/appearance is a complete and utter moron and should be put down, myself included. Having said that, I wonder what they do about the loudspeakers at five o'clock in the morning?

that would definately, as like other mosques in Germany, would not be allowed.

Christ, and to think that in the countryside they have church bells wake you every quarter of an hour (even at night) goes some way to show how far the western world has come in recognising other cultures as equal.

Nice, lot of it very one sided and probably coming out of the great and factual local textbooks you have there

Yes.. tit for tat... but still not totolly crap

Just peculiar

I also worked there, and I found the same thing about the _educated_ people. The common people (construction workers etc) were tolerant but not open-minded by any stretch of the imagination. Given it's illegal to convert to a religion other than Islam there I seriously doubt that any new churches will be built - negligible immigration from non-muslims and no new converts.


There are legitimate reasons to oppose any public building being built in a particular location - increased traffic (hence noise), more population pressure, blocking sunlight and in some cases being unsightly. If the debate is anything like it is in Australia (where there was huge controversy recently over much the same thing - a new mosque at Camden, near Sydney) it's more about fear about changing the demographics of the area - after all, if you have to pray several times a day it's best to live near a mosque. I am not religious so I don't care one way or the other, but if there is a clear need for a new mosque then one will be buílt somwhere and all local resistance will achieve over time is a concentration of mosques in areas that already have plenty of them.

No demographics of munich would be changed.
It's not a new central mosque for Munich even, but to replace a make do and mend mosque that is literally falling apart.

Munich is 30% "Ausländer" anyway, if the "Burger for Sendling" can't accept that, the road to Niederbayern is that way.

In Rotterdam, Holland, a group of activists once let pigs take a piss on a construction area for a new Mosque. The moslem organisation then cancelled the construction, because of the unholy "haram" soil

Which makes me absolutely wonder - haven't pigs walked around all of the earth's soil?

23%, to be exact (as of end of 2006) according to this site.

I stand corrected, 23% city wide, though it tops 30% in some parts of the inner city.

Hey, what is that supposed to mean!?!

( I should probably add that I am from Niederbayern... )

That means that "people who don't feel comfortable with the number of muslim immigrants in certain neighbourhoods may feel free to move elsewhere", as Dr. Narges Eskandari-Grünberg put it in Frankfurt.

Who are you to tell people whose families have been living in their town for decades or even centuries to move elsewhere MT?

The very raison d'etre (sorry if that isn't a "Leitkultur" Begriff) of Munich is the movement of people and goods.
850 years ago, a guy built a bridge and it all took off from there.

Munich has been a multicultural city way beyond living memory and for the most part, Müncheners are chilled out with each other, paßt scho'.
The people who are causing the hassles are the poisonous Aryan suburban brigade who although a minority seem to think it is "their" city alone.

I think the Problem is not so much one of us putting up with them .
It tends to be the other way around as soon as there is a majority of the Star Wars Extras in one place.

Just to ask , Were these Dutch Pigs by any chance , I lived in Holland for a couple of years and I only saw Dutch Pigs?