No self-employment for Canadians in Germany

I was yesterday at KVR and wanted from them to take out the remark "selbständige Tätigkeit nicht gestattet" out of my papers and got an information that Canadians can´t do any self-employment (from 01.01.2005). Anyone who did that before this change in law - they are ok, but there is no new self-employment. I got really mad. Only if I had 1 Mio. € and 10 working places, I could get this, otherwise not. There are only 6 States that can do this:

Dominican Rep.
USA
Japan
Iran
Israel
Australia

It is crazy, isn´t. The worst thing is that I wished I was an American in that moment

God, thats bad...you could at least wish to be an Australian

If it were up to me, I would let Canadians be self employed before an Aussie.

That list is business, agriculture and vacation destinations, but why Iran?

No idea, she said that Canada didn´t want to make some kind of contract with Germany and that´s why... I don´t believe her

I'm sure there are ways around this. I'm Canadian, but I don't get paid through my workplace directly. I have an independent source of income through a fellowship...I'm not sure if that's the same thing though.

@gryphon

I don't know if there's a way around it though...I'm self-employed but I have been getting paid through the association that I work for. I applied for the visa as though I was working for the company and still ended up with self-employed status.

It totally depends on who you talk to at the KVR (finding the correct person can take forever) and also how you present yourself...Go in dressed in a suit looking business-like and you can get almost anything you want...including self-employment status.

That's interesting...I was told I don't even need a working visa technically, just proof of employment. I did have to get a residence permit at poccistrasse though. Are they the same thing? German red tape is to put it mildly a little confusing!

Well, my visa states that I am allowed to work here but only as a Figure Skating Choreographer and/or Trainer... I believe it also serves as my residence permit.

Natasa, don't you have permanent residency here? I've misplaced my passport right now, but I seem to recall as soon as you became a permanent resident, no work papers, for being employed or self-employed were necessary.

that I know. She also said after 5 years but not before

@showem and Natasa: Usually you have to be gainfully employed for 5 years before the permanant residency kicks in. After that you can take on self-employment and freelancing without any restrictions.

xargon

Yes, but natasa lived here before, I assumed she already had residency.

That's really unlucky, but I would check the net just to verify that this is indeed true.

People at the KVR have a tendancy to bullshit.

They told an Aussie mate of mine that he couldn't be self-employed as an Australian either...

yes, but where to ask??? They are not certainly friendly at the KVR and I don´t want to spend some hunders of €€ for a lawyer

My passport says no self employment- but I can get permanent as of next year, then I can work self employed, or so the 'L' man told me (my last name begins with L)... so I have to wait...

Most laws about residency and such are all reciprocol- so, if we don't let them, they don't let us... you cannot fight it!

Hi, I'm new on here but anyways, also being Canadian I have set myself up to be self employed and hey, it worked. Did you go there with a German? I found it impossible to get anywhere on my own even speaking a little german.

Seems strange but unless you have something specifically saying it on your passport you were probably speaking to the wrong person.

Hope you get it sorted, if not I guess that means workin under the table EH

Cory

Out of curiosity is the employment status needed by you as a Canadian to permit you to stay in the country?

Last time I went - none. You normally get a visa that is good for both study or work for a company. But that might have changed since the start of this year.

When I had a lot to do with the KVR in my last job I had a great contact who was really helpful. He was letter K in the Auslandsabteilung and his name is Mr. Mangione. Afraid I don't have his extension number any longer He was really cool and if he didn't know something he would go away and look it up and get back to me (I used to call and ask all sorts of questions. Don't know about his English capabilites though am afraid). It got to the point where he used to greet me by name in the waiting room at the KVR. How sad is that?

Don't know if that helps at all...

Just I always find the status of "self-employed" a kinda grey area. For example I have a GbR over here, and also a UK Ltd company.

If trading as a sole trader then you are pretty much self-employed, but I am technically just an "employee" of the UK Ltd company.

Just for instance - buy yourself a UK/US/Canadian Ltd company online for £40 and become an employee. Is that self-employed?

yeah, i was thinking, can I open a company Ltd. in Canada and work here like (Niederlassung) for that company and pay taxes in Canada or here ???

For us, we have a Ltd company with offices in Switzerland and Canada and it was very easy to get the permits for Germany. They will put a freeze on your company account of up to 25 000 euros for a small period of time. Try going to the embassy.

I think the difference is Natasa want to start a company, and Hockeywidow- your company was already an 'established' and money making company before you moved here!

Gee - I thought the difference was that Natasa is trying to milk the government, and others aren't??

Nancy, if you become self-employed, you will NOT be milking the government.

Gee Nancy you don´t know me at all and you already made your judgment. I am just trying to find a way to make it easier for my husband because he has this limited working permit (only for one company). He could get a lot of contracts but non of these people want to make a working permit for him. And if he has a company in Canada and office in Germany he is automatically "Geschäftsführer" and he doesn´t need a working permit. I spoke to an accountend yesterday and he said that many many companies do the same thing. I don´t see who this would be milking the government.

We're waiting to find out if my hubby's permit application goes through -- it's been almost three months now. Apparently the rules changed, if you're American or Turkish, no problem, but it's not so easy for Canadians any more (though last year, Canadians were "preferred'). Every week we hear "any day now"... the lawyers say that if he doesn't get a permit to be a consultant, no one will. I'll let you know how it turns out.

Just out of Curiosity...Why are Canadians no longer preffered...I thought we were adored by all!!

I got the impression that the govt was trying to make it easier for other nationalities by increasing their quotas, but by doing so it meant that others had to give. Canucks got the short end, I guess. Even the guy at the KVR thought it was insane.

@natasa: do you have a German you trust in Germany? When I inquired about being self-employd they gave me a lot of shit and I figured it'd be easier for my boyfriend to set up the business and just hire me.. you'd have to work out the details of ownership and such, but it'd work out quickly..

Acutally, doesn't necessarily have to be a German, but an EU member you trust?

@ Natasa- I only have a limited work permit also! Its what you get... their laws are you have to be here 5 years... its very difficult to change your permit once here, but, if he had come as a contractor that would have been different. That is why alot of people in IT get contracts and jobs here- they have a set contract freelancing BEFORE they arrive. I asked last year when I renewed my permit, and he told me next year I was eligible for my 'unbefristet' permit, then, I can work freiberüflich, and only then... you can, however, have neben jobs, either Class 6 tax or on the 400 per month basis, I model parttime, and for that work I don't need a special permit, as I already have a permit. But the one job has to be secure.

ps- maybe Nancy Drew has seen some of your previous posts to make that comment. Remember everything you say on here, can come back to haunt you at some point.

THE KVR HAS THEIR HEADS UP THEIR BUMS.

I said it. Let it come back to haunt me, I don't care.

This is from their website TODAY and applies to canadians:

Sie wollen als Selbstständig/Freiberuflich tätig sein

-Krankenversicherungsnachweis
-Gewerbeanmeldung (bei anmeldefreier Tätigkeit: schriftliche Darstellung der beabsichtigten Tätigkeit und Anmeldung beim Finanzamt (Steuernummer))
Damit Sie die für die Erteilung einer Aufenthaltserlaubnis erforderliche Krankenversicherung abschließen und Sie das von Ihnen beabsichtige Gewerbe anmelden können, wird Ihnen bei Erstantragsstellung eine vorläufige Aufenthaltserlaubnis für die Dauer von sieben Monaten erteilt.
-Nachweis über ausreichende Altersversorgung (Pflichtversicherung für Selbständige bzw. Lebensversicherung in ausreichender Höhe)

There is also an info-paper in English that says the same thing. yet when you go into their offices you get two answers: 1. geht nichts, 2. Ah Ja... aber dann Sie brauchen €1,000,000 etc.

When confronted with their paper (from January 2005), they panic a little and then claim that the new ones haven't been printed yet.



I have called the consulate ( ) and plan on going for a second visit to KVR on Monday. Anyone care to join me?

My tax consultant seem to think it works tremendously well from a tax perspective as compared to a standard pay as you earn operator, is that not the case ?

My opinion, you pay taxes whether you´re employed or self-employed it doesn´t really matter in that case

Doesnt matter ? Try tax rates which are a fraction of the standard employed rate. How are you doin with those benefits lady ?

What benefits? Being self-employed, I pay all of my own health care and pension. If all my work dries up, I can't claim unemployment. If I want to retrain, I have to pay for all of the retraining, not the gov.

Sure, the taxing might be better, but there's a lot of other things that go out the window with it.

The topic is not Tax but self-employment and no one is trying to milk the government here but to live and work normally without waiting for working permits, etc. They seem to be complicated here with respect to self-employments etc. and we are just trying to find a way around it.

Choice. You choose to pay for those things.

"Sure, the taxing might be better" when those 5 words make a difference of 30% to take home pay you begin to understand.

Natasa has already made a few threads enquiring about how to get the most out of the benefits system here - hence my initial remark.

i don´t know about you but i take home enough money. i pay only approx. 18 - 20% for taxes and other benefits

Oh yeah, I am really trying to milk the government. I have been supporting myself in germany paying tax on everything from gas to weisswurst for three years, and now I want to start a business, employ German people, pay more tax and actually try and help this godforsaken economy a little bit, and i) they tell me to feck off, and ii) people here say we are trying to milk the system.

Sorry, but what kind of a moron assumes that people who are trying to get a permit, in Munich, to work indpendantly and legally are pulling a scam? I think you are looking for the hundreds or thousands of illegals here who don't bother to follow the fecked-up rules, work under the tabel and make it tough for the rest of us.

That was great Tim

I told that to lady at KVR"!!! They should´t wonder why they have so many Schwarzarbeiter. They make it so difficult for them. I said everybody can employ me but if I want to pay more taxes and employ some people she comes with the story I need to have 1 Mio. €. If I had 1 Mio. € I surely wouldn´t be investing in Germany

Canadian child benefits for a kid born in Canada
Read.
Especially this post from natasa:
Canadian child benefits for a kid born in Canada

Never suggested scam. Try reading before ranting.

parnell,

i think it is very very stupid from you to make such comments. If I wanted to milk to government I would work under the table and wouldn´t even try with self-employment. Where is the logic?

You answer yourself:


There has been considerable speculation on these forums as to some of your dealings with credit agencies in the past - information which you willingly furnished - you have made your motives clear from posts such as the above. As to my stupidity - that is without question. Self employment is a well known route to dramatically reducing income tax - many would claim exploiting a loophole where that person operates as a single contractor - hell my tax consultant is ALL about it - benefit hungry individuals such as yourself (previous posts) should be the very last to avail of such.

www.milksucks.com

@ Parnell - I have no problem with you and don't know natasa from a hole in the wall. If she is trying to get a permit to work legally, then good for her. If she is trying to get her fair share from canada, then good for her.

Your comment:
sounds, to me at least, like a dig at anyone trying to get a legal, self employed work permit.

As someone who is trying to INCREASE the income tax he pays (from ZERO to some POSITIVE number) your above comment

strikes me as ridiculous, and so my previous comment.

I don't need to read about someone else's history to rant about your current posts.

Edit. it's simple. I want to work and employ people, and therefore help the economy and pay taxes. They won't let me, they are idiots.

Well apparently you are well informed. Who is milking the government now...and again what is wrong with it. We pay taxes and have nothing from it and people who get what they can get from the government are clever guys not "milkers". An honestly, it was not my intention to milk anyone, but thanks for information I will certainly do what you suggested (If your tax consultant is ALL about it and I think that he is probably German) why shouldn´t I do it.

Look at my post about the suite I am renting. Who is milking whom now. People who work for EPO and pay very law or if any taxes and pay for the suite 540€ and i have to pay for the same suite 700 bucks???

Timotay , if you could just calm the fuck down and read the thread you would see that Natasa is ALREADY employed and paying tax here - hence your situation does not apply.

Then applying the same cool head you would see that my posts do not apply to you.

Finally you might just see that educating yourself about a topic and an individual in relation to said topic would give you a flavour of what is to come. You might see the name "MarcusBlair" mentioned a lot as an example of this.