American table manners

So let me get this straight, I eat with my fork in my left hand and use my knife with my right. I then put the food into my mouth with the left hand (fork upsidedown) and hold the knife in my right until it is time to cut another piece. No switching knives. No zig zag. Is this right or am I eating wrong???

gonna miss you dude

Watch it, I'm well tasty with a blade. None of this poncy stabbing rubbish, I fillet people.

I didn't realise people ate their chips with a fork...I have never seen this strange behaviour

I've never seen anyone in Australia (or here for that matter) eat them without a fork. Honestly, when I was in Australia I felt like a heathen eating them with my hands.

How bizarre...I have never seen this and just assumed that everyone ate them by hand. Australians and Germans are a strange bunch anyway

@showem - hey showem, why don't you guys do what I do and simply eat with your fork in the right hand and knife in the left? I'm told it's the left-handed way of eating, although I am officially right-handed, but I can't eat the other way round! I am constantly confusing waiters by switching my cutlery! They think they have set the table wrong

I can't stand it when people eat fries with a fork. I will leave it at that and won't do the full rant (except maybe over a beer sometime). But, the next person I see use a fork and a knife for CHICKEN WINGS dies.
(and on topic... I eat w/ the fork in the left, knife in the right hand because the right is my strong hand and can cut easier, and don't see much reason to switch the fork from hand to hand, but I do not hold the fork pointing down... that's just asking to have everything drop off and make you look like and idiot.) Speaking of food, I'm off to pick up some chopsticks and eat some chinese

All you need is a spork and a pocket knife. Two of the greatest inventions since sliced bread. (Spork-mass marketed by Taco Hell! It was and is the only way to eat that mess!)

Well last night I was dreaming I eat (for the first time) with the European method. no more zig zaging for htis boy! I was surprise by the ease of the mothod. Thanks TTs for making a proper European out of me.

Alys, it takes considerably more coordination to cut with my left hand than it does to bring the fork to my mouth in my left hand.

Anyways, I haven't lost any sleep over it, either way.

thanks for the good summaries, don.

funny, i've been watching table manner differences lately (even before this thread). And I since learned to eat by both styles (I'm grew-up with zig zag).

thing is, there is something about the European Style that I don't like. Basically, some people do it in a very, very snobish way (IMHO). zig zag is very informal, and if I went home and ate according to the European Style, I am sure that my family and friends would say something. that is, they would say: Oh, look at him, he spends some time in Europe and now he's all euro-snob."

manners should be used to make others feel comfortable, not as a means to separate yourself from the masses / be a frick'n elitist snob. IMHO.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA...

Sorry.
Don't know what came over me...

I surprised no one mentioned this yet. The "zig-zag" method used by americans comes from colonial times. People kept one hand free for their gun. Minimum time was spent with both hands occupied iwth utensils. That's also why many americans cut all their food up before starting to eat.

I switched my eating habits to european when I came here because of the strange looks. But still sometimes if I'm not paying attention I find myself switching hands.

BTW the fork was not a late introduction to the US:

The fork was introduced to Italy from Byzantium. Four hundred years later, in the early seventeenth century, the fork was introduced to England. (King Henry the VIII followed proper etiquette for the time by grabbing food with his fingers and tossing the bones over his shoulder.) The fork began to appear on American tables about the same time as in England.

it's true. I do prefer to have one hand on my gun when I eat.

I can always tell when Americans are at the table because they pile everything back on their plate after they're done. Germans are, by far, the worst people to serve, but at least they lick their plate and stack their cutlery and serviette in an orderly fashion


Germans also eat burgers with a knife and fork... Aah!

Hmmm and I haven't lost any meals over it...damn. Sheds a whole new light for me. I can blame weight gain on the Zig Zag method. If I went European half the food would never make it to my mouth.


Remind me never to eat off of your plate

I eat with just a fork 99% of the time. I even have been know to cut meat with my fork. It must be my upbringing. I get crap from my European coworkers all the time. Also there is the debate of wether or not to hold the fork upside down.

don't know whether this was meant sarcastically or not, but

much like the pizza thread, why has this thread gone on so long...

@blimeygirl - no sudden moves towards it either...

Actually, correct etiquette does state that forks should be downward facing..
We all know fingers are best anyway. I'd never give a monkeys about how my little niece eats with cutlery, but I've got her sucking the insides out of prawn heads, and eating select parts of stecklefisch heads - much better progress. All about the taste man.

i was actually referring to "debate" but now am intrigued - what parts of the stecklefisch heads?

Cheeks and eyes.

Two questions:
1) What happens if you are eating steak and something else that does not requiring a knife, i.e. peas, beans, mashed potatoes.. you finish eating the steak. Do you a) keep the knife in your hand and push the food on to your fork hold the knife in your hand and use only the fork c) place the knife down and eat with the fork in your left hand d) place the knife down and switch hands and only use your right hand with the fork

2) If you sccop or push the food on to the fork with the knife is it tines down or up?

For me, I have always eaten with the fork in the left hand and the knife in the right. That is how I was taught, but I was also told that both are correct. I, however, would do the option d above when I had no use for the knife. If I couldn't clean my plate, that was considered polite as an empty plate makes the host feel as if you were not fed enough. I was also taught only to eat soup with a spoon, with the motion going away from you as you scooped the liquid into the spoon (and of course, bring the spoon to your mouth). Now (since being here in Germany) I scoop the last bit of my food unto the fork (tines down) until my plate is cleared.

I don't believe the colonial times as the reason for the switching of forks in American culture, sounds too European written. I believe it is more that we don't want to appear as savages and scarf down the vittels without pausing for a breath.

Interesting, we were taught to clean our plate and ask for seconds to demonstrate how good the host's food was.

In the contest of which etiquette is better, the European or the American ZigZag method, PJ O'Rourke said that whichever culture curently holds the most guns gets to dictate prevailing etiquette. Miss Manners said that etiquette is what separates us from the animals and therefore any etiquette that makes it more difficult to scarf your food down like a dog is the superior etiquette. So, ZigZag, being obviously the most complicated etiquette, wins.
PS: Only the British hold their fork upside down. It's ridiculous to watch them trying to balance things on the backs of their forks. They get 10 points for the entertainment value though.

British, Aussies, Kiwis and anyone else taught to eat properly

Some Aussies do it too

i seem to recall being taught to keep the fork "upside down" but hard to see how you are going to eat peas like that. slowly i guess.

i like to eat with just a fork if possible, but then i don't like eating with my hands at all.

can't wait to see this forks-upside-down thing with peas in real life! Maybe the poem about peas with honey is British after all!

Ok, now here's another question. How do you hold your fork?

[img]http://www.acclaimimages.com/_gallery/_SM/0061-0503-2612-4208_SM.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.acclaimimages.com/_gallery/_SM/0061-0502-1604-3907_SM.jpg[/img]

Like the one on the left or the right? I personally hold mine like the one on the right (except opposite hand, knife in left hand). My father used to yell at me and told me that only heathens hold their forks like that on the left (i.e. like they're shovelling their food).

heathens??!!

I read somewhere that the American custom of cutting with the knife, putting the knife down, swapping the fork to the right hand and then eating with the fork developed during the American war of independance as some sort of secret sign to show that you were a revolutionary. Could of course be total crap. I will look it up when I get time.

I also read somewhere that in America, cutting with the side of the fork is considered by many to be rather uncouth. Again, it's just something I read somewhere. Non Americans don't do this as often, as we don't have the extra effort of having to change hands.

Yet another example of American Exceptionalism.

Just cuz we're exceptional!

Is it, dare I ask, okay in these parts to lift your soup bowl to your mouth when your spoon can't get the rest? Seriously. Back home (in Maine) that was no problem.

@PES

dunno if you are being sarcastic there dude but that was a sinbin offence in the UK!

You are supposed to tilt the bowl away from you to get the rests. Unless of course there are handles on either side of the bowl. In that case, you can just pick it up and slurp it out.

I used to love reading about etiquette. I'm still foul-mouthed and bad-mannered, but it was fun to read about how one should properly introduce the prime minister to the pope and which spoon was to be used for snails.

and onto the spoon? Sinbin?

No, go for it. But not too much scraping and no finger licking.

some fuckers on this planet eat with their hands.
what did the waiter say about these?

I eat with my fork in the right hand, and my nan bread in the left...

@AquaticMeringue

In my two years in Kathmandu the left hand only one function and that was bodily. No naan, no chappati. With the right hand it was only a question of how many fingers you eat with. High caste eat with two fingers only, low caste: the entire right hand.

For Muslims, too, the left hand is "unclean", so they only use their right hand when eating.

In the country where Chicken Tikka Masala was invented, I can assure you my style of eating is perfectly acceptable.

Ok, new question to the idea of the fork and knife never leaving the hand during the meal... what about while taking a drink? Surely it's normal to sip your drink in between bites, and I can't imagine it is proper to keep the knife or fork in your hand while picking up your glass?

All this talk about manners, ya'll take the fun out of eating by making it a pain in the ass. Only spicy foods should be a pain in the ass.

when you have a drink you put the knife and fork in the 'twenty to five' formation, with the tines of the fork facing downwards

i think that when you stop for a drink you should put the knife (big hand) and fork (little hand) on your plate to represent the current time. that way everyone knows when you last stopped to take a sip of wine.

edit: fork upwards mines AM, downwards means PM

i was taught that when eating a salad, you should never use your knife. that your guests should prepare them already bite-sized.

Chicken Tikka Masala in Nepal? No way. Yes, it can be had in Indian resturant there, but the basic Nepali eats the same meal for breakfast, lunch and dinner: Dal-Baht-Takari. It is addictive stuff! I wish I could get it in Munich. Outside of London there is a Nepali resturant, run by ex-Gurkas. They serve it. The UK English usage of `pucka´comes from the Nepali work Pucka which means 'real'.

Correct.

But Aquatic is more correct.

I'll bet ten bucks you meant hosts instead of guests... or are you talking potluck?

I was taught the same, and trying to teach hubby the same...