Landlord showing apartment before I give notice

I did a couple searches and couldn't find a similar topic (other than people getting screwed by their landlords on the Kaution, etc.), so here goes...

I gave my landlord my official three months notice earlier this week, but I told him (unofficially) that I'd be moving a few weeks ago. The weird thing is, a couple days after I told him we'd be moving, he already showed the apartment! I don't mind, because he asked me beforehand if he could, but isn't this just a bit weird to show an apartment almost four months before it will be available? He also came by with a couple to look at it today (again with my permission) and wants to come back with another couple later this afternoon.

What is the usual practice? I don't mind if he wants to have a few showings, but if he's going to ruin my sleep-in time every Saturday, it might turn out to be more than a bit annoying. Do people here ever do open houses? I'd prefer it if he just scheduled one and showed it to several people at a time, rather than coming by frequently and causing me to rearrange my schedule. What's the norm here and what are my rights?

Any thoughts on the matter?

Yeah, I had a nasty argument with a Maklerin who was trying to sell the apartment that I was moving out of years ago. According to her, you as the renter have to allow viewers into your flat. You can have some control as to when and how often, but you have to allow it. That was her story at least.

I'd just ask your landlord to pick some times to agree to and then leave it at that. No sense making problems if there aren't any, just say you would prefer such and such time and day and that it's arranged well before.

Ditto what Showem said. I think you do have to give reasonable access (reasonable can be defined in court if it get's that far), but you can also insist on a certain amount of convenience to you. Sounds like a non-problem so far. Just be polite and ask that he do a sammel-tour to keep down the intrusion.

Is a sammel-tour an open house?

Wow, about 10 minutes after the landlord left the second time, another couple the landlord didn't mention showed up claiming they were supposed to meet him here. I guess there must have been a bit of a mixup.

You are obliged to let people look at the place, but only when arranged in advance. And you can dictate days/times. Maybe suggest he can show as many people round as he likes between 12 and 2 on Saturday. Or 7-9 one evening during the week.

It's not all that odd to look at places months before you want to move in - everyone has to give at least three months notice - and most people don't give up an existing flat till they've got a new one.

WTF?!?

So now some random guy just buzzed the Klingelknopf wanting to look at our apartment. I just discovered, when he showed me a printout, that my apartment is listed on Immobilien Scout. Ok, that's fine. The landlord has nothing to do with random weirdos who think it's normal to show up at the doorstep of an apartment that won't be available for three months, but puleeeeze tell me this is not normal! Now I know where that third couple came from out of the blue yesterday.

Do people normally do this here? Just randomly show up at an occupied apartment without any notice expecting to view it?

Maybe they do, but I certainly wouldn't be letting them in. And I would complain about the fact to my landlord, telling him that you are not prepared to show anyone around your place if it hasn't already been arranged.

Maybe try asking your landlord to change the ad so the people showing up randomly will be ringing his/her doorbell instead of yours, or that it mention showing only by appointment. If not, just put a note next to the button saying to ring at your landlords if interested in viewing the apt.

But like Koala said, give your landlord times that it would be ok to show the place. I know if someone came in while I was getting my one day of sleeping-in in (and especially if I had been out all night), I'd be dragged away in a police car as the bodies were taken away...

I have had similar problems, but never as drastic as you described. I am pretty sure you are obliged to allow the landlord adequate viewing time, but this can be a weekly hour or so at a fixed time specified by you. The best thing would have been to have found a Nachmieter before handing in your notice (someone to take over the lease), but you could still look for a Nachmieter now. I remember this situation from numerous housemoves in Germany. Specify a time to your landlord and simply disconnect the doorbell - tell your friends to call you with their mobiles from outside instead of ringing the bell. Sorry, don't have any better advice. Sorry too you are leaving.

Thanks, guys. I'll definitely ask my landlord to change the ad to say not to bother the tenants and make sure we set a time for viewings. It just amazes me that this is necessary. It would never occur to me to go to an apartment that isn't available for three months and bother the tenant. Fortunately, our buzzer has an on/off switch, too, so if it becomes a problem, I'll just put a note up with the landlord's info and turn the damn thing off.

I just have to rant about my landlord.

He came by several times in one week and showed several people the apartment. I told him while he was showing the apartment that we wanted to sell the kitchen to the next tenants. I haven't heard from him in two and a half months. We just assumed that he's rented the place, since he never brought anyone else past to look at it.

Today I received a phone call from the woman who will be moving into the apartment after we leave, and she wants to move her furniture in a few days early. No problem, since we'll be leaving before the end of the month. I asked if she wants to move her kitchen in at this time, and her reply is - get this - isn't the kitchen staying in the apartment?

WTF?!?! I sold it last week! I *wanted* more than anything to sell the damn kitchen with the apartment. I told this to my landlord explicitly. He hasn't contact me in any way, hasn't called or sent a fax, didn't even seem to care in the slightest about my kitchen, and now I find out that the new tenant wanted the kitchen!

What a doof.

[German_Hat=ON]
Of course he didn't care about the Kitchen, what had it to do with him? It's not even as if he needs to maintain any semblance of relationship with you after you leave. Now if, of course you'd offered him 10% commission on the sale, he might have acted differently..[/German_Hat=OFF]

[German_Hat=ON]
Of course he didn't care about the Kitchen, what had it to do with him? It's not even as if he needs to maintain any semblance of relationship with you after you leave. Now if, of course you'd offered him 10% commission on the sale, he might have acted differently..[/German_Hat=OFF]

That posting was so good, I wrote it twice...
... well, to tell the truth Firefox did it twice, and didn't tell me...
...sorry...

I don't really care if he *cared* about the kitchen, but if the person who was offered and accepted the apartment wanted the kitchen that I was hoping to pass along, one would think that he'd at least tell me that.

Not to mention that the person renting the apartment thinks he's getting with the kitchen! Is he in for a rude awakening when he moves in and there's no kitchen.

Make the landlord agree a time IN ADVANCE at a time THAT SUITS YOU!
Any stranger rings your bell, tell 'em to go away!

@monkstown...
but not if they're cute and willing

I think it's total crap. When we moved into our new apartment we purchased the kitchen...and it was the landlord that told the previous tenants to ensure that they gave us the contract and got payment on the kitchen BEFORE he would even do up a rental agreement for us. Apparently there is a law or something that if you move into an apartment where the kitchen (or other items I suppose) are being sold then once you move in the previous tenants have no claim to payment on these items (don't ask me the exact law...both the previous tenants AND our Makler both told us this on separate occasions).

The landlord should have sorted this out with you prior to telling the person they could move in. Did he even know the asking price on the kitchen? Or get your bank details so the person could pay you? He's so slick he's oily.

I've a thing for cute Jehovah boys in a suit!

thought

can you specify the type you'd prefer?

So what was the new tenant's reaction when you told her the kitchen wasn't coming? Hope her contract doesn't say the kitchen is staying, that'd be more than just a rude awakening...

Well, I didn't actually speak to her. She'd apparently first called my apartment and spoke with my hubby, whose German is pathetic. He gave her my work number, so she could talk with me. She evidently assumed that I couldn't speak German either, because she had an English-speaking woman call me. When I told that woman that the kitchen was sold, she turned and told her, but there didn't seem to be a huge response. That said, I wasn't actually talking to the woman and couldn't see or hear her reaction.

The German Tenant's Organization (Deutscher Mieter Bund) has a site where you can read up on tenant's right & responsibilities.

Regarding the right to inspect/enter the rented premises ("Besichtigungsrecht"), they write:

Der Vermieter darf die Wohnung des Mieters nur besichtigen, wenn es hierfür einen konkreten Grund gibt. Ein generelles Besichtigungsrecht für Vermieter existiert nicht. Der darf nach Angaben des Deutschen Mieterbundes (DMB) die Wohnung des Mieters ohne dessen Einverständnis nicht betreten, und er hat auch keinen Anspruch auf einen Zweitschlüssel für die Mieterwohnung.

Ein allgemeine Überprüfung der Wohnung in Hinblick darauf, ob Instandhaltungsmaßnahmen erforderlich sind, ist allenfalls im Abstand von 2 Jahren zulässig (AG Münster 28 C 6492/99, AG Köln 219 C 430/98).

Nach Angaben des Mieterbundes kann der Vermieter außerdem Zutritt zur Mieterwohnung verlangen, wenn notwendige Reparaturen durchgeführt werden müssen, wenn der Mieter Mängelbeseitigung fordert, wenn Messeinrichtungen wie zum Beispiel Heizkostenverteiler abgelesen werden müssen oder wenn der Vermieter das Haus bzw. die Wohnung mit Kaufinteressenten oder Mietinteressenten besichtigen will.

Bei der Vereinbarung derartiger Besichtigungstermine muss grundsätzlich auf die Berufstätigkeit des Mieters Rücksicht genommen werden. Der Besichtigungstermin darf nur zu den üblichen Zeiten angesetzt werden, es reicht aus, wenn sich der Mieter einmal in der Woche Zeit für einen Besichtigungstermin nimmt.

To paraphrase, and reduced to the current discussion, the land lord's right to enter the rented premises is restricted to regular inspection visits every 2 years, and/or when and if there are the following incidents/circumstances:
- repairs
- upon invitation by the tenant, e.g. to inspect defects
- meter readings
- showings for prospective tenant/owners

They elaborate re. the last point as follows: showings need to be pre-arranged with the tenant and have to consider the availability of the tenant with respect to working hours etc.. Showings may only be arranged at "usual times" and it is seen as suffucient for the tenant to make her/himself available once per week.

Unfortunately the law provides no clearer definition regarding the time-period that is seen as sufficient, but I believe the courts have accepted periods of between 3 and 6 hours for this purpose, no more frequent than once/week as said above.

As far as I know, there have been court decisions invalidating contract clauses that stipulate a landlord's right to inspect the rented premises at will and un-announced, so if you have something like that in your rental agreement it's likely null & void. Also, Art. 13 GG states that your home is "inviolable" under the protection of the German Constitution ... [img]http://www.forumosa.com/taiwan/images/smiles/Beatnik.gif[/img]

Hope this help, Xpet.

Oh, and if, as seems obvious, your "Nachmieter" signed the rental contract on the assumption of a fully furnished kitchen being included, she could only have heard that from the landlord as you didn't speak to her, right? What does that make your landlord ... ??

The kitchen has nothing to do with the landlord and won't be in the contract. He is only interested in letting his flat. If the new tenant wanted the kitchen it was up to her to get your contact details from the landlord and arrange to sign a contract of sale with you for the kitchen. I think one signs the rental agreement first otherwise one could end up with a kitchen and no flat. But there must be a contract of sale (Verkaufsvertrag) for the kitchen otherwise the previous tenant could end up with it on their hands at the end if the new tenant changes his or her mind. The new tenant should have demanded to meet you to discuss the kitchen before signing, so she may be cursing herself now. Perhaps she was hoping you didn't know the law and would go back to the States leaving her the kitchen free of charge. Who knows? Don't lose any sleep over it. Concentrate on hiding any marks you've made so you get your full Kaution back. As I remember it, the landlord can hold on to the Kaution for a while so make sure you have someone over her to chase him up.

But if you refer to my earlier post...our landlord refused to do a rental contract with us until we had signed a contract with previous tenants for the kitchen AND paid in full. This was a full month before we moved in! They were still using the kitchen for a whole month before we even got there. Once the previous tenants verified with him that we paid...then he drew up the Mietvertrag (which he then wouldn't even sign until we paid the Kaution in full). He would not have rented to someone who did not want to purchase the kitchen (this is what the previous tenants told us) as he preferred it did not get ripped out of the apartment (which is what they would have done if they hadn't sold it).

So in some cases...yes...it does have to do with the landlord.

However, in this case I suspect ipj's landlord was just trying to use the kitchen to his advantage to rent the apartment and did not keep open lines of communication with his tenant!

Exactamente, my feeling entirely! I can picture the guy right now: "Hey, the place even has a kitchen ... blink blink, notch notch, say no more ... !!" Was it in Faulty Towers?: "Don't mention the Kitchen!!!"

I believe the other contract/payment issue of kitchens not belonging to the landlord but the previous tenant has to do with the fact that once the new tenant has moved in, the previous tenant has no (easy) way of actually getting the kitchen out unless there is a clear agreement between the parties. Just a matter of minimizing the trouble potential ...