Trying to save a relationship

Hi all, my life is a real shit at the moment and I don't know what to do.
My girlfriend who is currently pregnant says she wants to leave me. We already have 1 child together and I am desperately trying to save our relationship.
I still love her very much.
She tells me that she just doesn't love me in the same way anymore although only a few months ago when we planned this child everything seems fine.
I know she is hoping to get together with another guy if we split, who is abusing a position of power and confidence by encouraging her, although she won't admit it to me.
I don't know whether I should confront the other guy or not.
I can't bear the thought of losing her and my children.
The situation is having an adverse affect on all aspects of my life.
Obviously there are 2 sides to each story but has anyone got any experience with saving a relationship or some good advice.
Thanks.

Yes. If nothing else, you'll feel better.

Well I am not an expert, but does she want to fix things too or abandon things?

At the moment she says she wants to abandon it. But I'm hoping its just the hormones playing havoc with her. She told me that logically she can see it would be better to try but emotionally she gives up. But like I said, I think she is hoping for someone else.

Don't really have any advice apart from good luck, that's an awful situation and I have no idea how things can be fixed.
Sure you could go and lamp this bloke but you'll only feel better until a. the police turn up or b. he lamps you back or c. your girlfriend catches you lamping him and uses that as an excuse to leave you quicker (and you potentially fuck up access to you kids due to being violent)?
There are some good English-speaking counsellors/therapists/mediators in Munich, maybe it would help if you and your woman talked to an impartial third party, if not just to see if things can be sorted but also in the worst case to help you both manage? If you both speak German, the Jugendamt can also offer family counselling too (and give advice on any legal implications).
Just an idea. Good luck in any case.
NOTE: If this is a piss-take, I really hope your teeth fall out (or something).

I feel sorry for you. Hope it is okay. Women who are pregnant are to paraphrase my brother, another species altogether.

Their hormones act in ways they cannot often control. This takes its toll.

If she was "normal" a few mnonths ago chances are that this is all hormones.

I hope it works out for you.

I'm sorry for your troubles. Try to talk her into getting some couples councelling. Point out to her that she's not likely to love the new guy 'the same' forever either and that she owes your children a commitment to the family.
You also might consider asking her to marry you. - Just an idea.

At the least you should try and talk to her about the fact that her decisions are not only for herself anymore since she decided to have children. She should also balance the fact of how her decision will effec the children. That being said, if she wants to go nothing you do will keep her. And this other man...leave him out of it as this is only between you and her and your children and children to be. If she chooses to talk with someone else it does not make it better for you as well. At this point she will not take your advice or dieas as she is pitted against you. At most you should tell her to take a breather and that includes no male friends and let her decide what is best for her without you around and without anyone else. But also let her realise that you will be forever a part of her life as she is the mother of your two children.

If you are having problems now...don't marry her...it won't solve anything

also no expert, but has she cited any other reasons for wanting to part other than the fact she might have wider eyes for another bloke? ie: could youhave either done or not done something?

[COLOR=gray]If this is crap, then bugger off

Amen.

@katrina, its not a piss take, I assure you. In fact most of you know me already both online and offline, but I didn't want to post under my usual username.

Unless both sides are willing to make an effort to fix things up I wouldnt hold out much hope. If I was in your situation I would have her interests at heart and if I had to choose between her being miserable with me, or happy with someone else I could only wish her well in her new life! But thats just me, im not a jealous type and respect a womans decision if she wants out. Nothing looks more pathetic than a grown man grovelling and pestering an ex!

may i suggest a radical solution? this new guy, i supose he doesnt have children? let him borrow your wife and children for a while, i'd like to see his response to another man's child waking him up every three hours and his inability to go out and enjoy himself because of family commitments. tell her your there and waiting. the kids you wont lose. they'll be there for you if you are there for them.

I see what you guys mean about not marrying under these circumstances, but we don't really know what's going on between them. Is it possible that her apparent lack of committment is related to the fact that she's pregnant for the second time and still unmarried? She might have a problem with that.

Easier said than done Kza. I don't want some other guy raising my kids and I want to be part of this pregnancy/birth as well.

@gideon: know the feeling! This is the reason I am a Toytown recluse!

Speaking as someone who had a bf propose to her while she was trying to talk about problems in the relationship, I'd say this was generally a Bad Idea™, unless maybe the problem were a lack of committment, but it doesn't sound like that's the case.

Every sympathy...
Aelfwynn

I admit that was a problem which I left go for too long. I asked recently but she no longer wants it. I had told her along that my intentions were to marry her, but I wanted the time to be right and not seem like it was "just because she was pregnant".

@DeadManWalking

It can either be her hormones packing up on her or there's something more to it as you are guessing as well. If she decided only a couple of months ago to have another child together with you something big seems to have happened(Einstein here ). So who is this guy? What sort of a relationship does she currently have with him? How long has she known him?

@MB, she has know the other guy about a year. Its a teacher/student or doctor/paitent relationship they have, or should have.

@DeadManWalking

If she has known him for a year already, what makes you so sure that she now suddenly, being pregnant and all, want to have him? It's a rather unusual step for a woman to take..

If you can just get her to stay at least until she has had the baby then you will see if it is just a question of hormones or not. She will probably see things more clearly, too. But if she is depressed already (or prone to depression?) she may well get the baby blues. Try and get her to tell you if there really is something going on with this other guy, because at least if you knew for sure you would know where you stand - even if it hurts. But don't marry her to try and fix things!! Will be expensive and won't work. Hope you will be ok

@DMW...Sympathies mate. I think you've gotten some good advice, but is there a logistical reason she thinks its "easier" to give up and split? Is she back home somewhere and is facing a move to Munich, or is she (and the other guy) German so its easier for her to talk with him?

Because things have become more intense and serious over that time between them.

They are both German so obvoiuosly she is finding communication easier with him. She has lived in Munich all her life so its not a logistical reason.

Love is only a feeling and feelings change.. hormones possibly have influenced it, but who can tell.
She should still be able to tell from her gut feeling if this is something temporary, or if it's 'rational' for her.

If she's already given up on the relationship and isn't prepared to work on it, or doesn't want to, I can't see any way of working things out. Relationships can only work if both parties are willing.

I know it's really hard for you right now, but if you love her, then it would be good for you to continue to support her emotionally as well as practically, giving her space when she needs it (maybe she's feeling crowded?) and be there for her when she needs you.

what's that quote from Gross Point Blank - If you love something, set it free. If it comes back to you, it's, well, broken.

@DMW a bit of advice from a girl whos been there - Back off. 1. She needs time and a different perspective, that takes time, a lot of time. 2. I feel a huge cloud of desperation hanging over you, women can smell that a mile away and, let me tell you - it stinks! Re-think your relationship, do you really want to be with someone who is sadly, no longer interested in you - even to go so far as to leave you for another man while prego with your child? Hormones or not that's pretty impulsive! Best of luck to you - it's not easy any way you cut it...

@UA, I've been trying my best to do all those things, be supportive, understanding and giving her plenty of space. At first I thought it showed signs of improvement but then I found out that she had already made an appointment to try and get a flat from social welfare without telling me and it really hurt me. My feelings are being run ragged at the moment.

I don't know you DMW but I was sorry to hear about your situation.

This won't apply to everybody (I hope) but getting married to save a relationship was probably the most stupid thing I have ever done in my life. I was in a situation like this a few years back, but without the third person in the triangle. However I'm afraid in my case giving advice and following it yourself are too completely different things.

In theory the only way to save a relationship is to have a completely honest open discussion with your girlfriend. Tell her what you think is happening, how it's affecting you and why you want to stay together. This is almost impossible in real life, especially in a situation like this but I think a third party scenario with a neutral trained therapist or counseler might help you a lot. It's not very macho but at least these people can spot things that you may not have. At best it could save your relationship, at worst you could uncover things that will make it clear to you that the relationship is over. That may not be a bad thing as you can work on maintaining a different type of relationship in order to see and help care for your children.

I don't know if you live together but as somebody else suggested you might both need some time off, as in you live somewhere else for a while. This will however only make sense if both of you can use the time to decide what you really want to do.

Good luck to you whatever you decide to do.

Thanks everyone. @Yeti yes we do live together at the moment. One of the things I wanted to do was to move to a bigger flat to give us more room, maybe the chance to avoid each other and at least a bed for me other than the couch.
And you do know me, at least online by my usual username.

Likewise DMW, good luck.

Remember the old adage - everything happens for a reason.

UA has a point..
I was in a relationship I didn't want to be in and I left him twice but he always managed to talk me into coming back. This never would have happened in England but because I was the foreigner in Germany with practically no support network, I felt I had no option. However, I withdrew completely from him so he would leave me. When he finally saw my heart wasn't in it anymore he left me and I was relieved. Was painful for both of us, as we had been together for 5 years, but now we are friends.
Remaining friends with your girlfriend should be the top priority here, as children are involved. I think it is better for children to have separated parents who are happy and get on than parents who tried to stay together for their sake. She will also have more respect for you and you will have more self respect. Don't beg her to stay if it is obviously a non-hormonal problem.
Hope that all didn't sound smart assy - it's difficult to say what to do not knowing the ins and outs.

She was my main reason for moving here and we have been together for over 5 years now. I don't want to give up yet. I'm just at the end of my strength now. I can't eat, sleep and my work is suffering. Even though I know I should try to bring some normality back to my life, I just can't seem to do it at the moment.

A question keeps running through my head and I really am not trying to make matters worse but you say that your girlfriend has been seeing this other guy for around a year and your relationship has become increasingly difficult. You also gave her space hoping that maybe you could work things out. My nagging thought is, could perhaps the second child belong to this other guy ?

You will probably feel better once you get past the denial stage and let go. Just remember to do it with good feelings all round, you dont want to complicate things or do anything stupid when it comes to access to your kids!

@marka, no I'm pretty ceratin of that. I know the date and time it was conceived. She only meets this other guy infrequently at courses. She wants out of this relationship before she would do anything else.

@DeadManWalking

IMHO the first thing you should do is have a direct, open talk to her about this as many other readers have suggested to you as well. If this doesn't lead anywhere only then would I consider asking her what she thinks about going to see a counsillor. Statistically speaking having seen a counsillor doesn't help most relationships on the longrun. Consider following regarding your relationship and you love for her, which only you can judge:
If she really believes what this German bloke tells her and if she really is planning on starting anew with him I would say chances are very small of it working. Maybe she is bored with your relationship and this has nothing to do with her hormones at all. But I am convinced that it won't work with the new guy for reasons which already got mentioned by Gideon and other men here on the forum. He might find her nice and cute and all currently, but when the baby is there things are going to change for the worse. Should she then leave him and return to you (which would be a typical female reaction as it's easier to bring up a child with some help), would you want to take her back? Do you love her that much?
Or would you decide on behalf of your children? What would you do? You have to think longterm currently. Whatever happens between you, be honest and open towards her, ask her directly and leave the other guy alone. It's not gonna chance anything towards the better for you if you go and approach him. So this is your homework imho, you have some chatting to do.. Good luck to you, I can only imagine how you must feel like!

He was my reason for going to Hamburg. I really wanted the relationship at first but as UA said, feelings change. I was too young, I think. He didn't do anything wrong, it really was just me..(excuse the cliche) He tried to put a plaster on it and fight for the relationship but it only prolonged the situation. Are the two of you talking?

Well, I am no expert and this is a complicated situation... However, I would suggest seeing a counsellor together. Of course you have to have an honest and frank talk with her first and convince her that it is a good idea.

I am sorry things have turned out this way for you. I wish you all the best and hope you guys can work things out. Of course she being pregnant makes things exponentially more complicated...

Yes, we are currently talking. More like being civil to avoid fighting in front of our son. At the moment I am doing everything to avoid clashes.
@MB Thing is, I don't know if I could take her back if she left. The hurt would be too much for me and my stupid pride would get in the way...

One thing you should definitely work on at all costs is making sure she doesnt try to prevent you from seeing your kids in the future. As an unmarried couple in Germany I think a mother can make it very hard indeed (should she decide to) for you to have any contact with them.

I really am not being very upbeat am I :-) But I just know that if anything happened in my relationship I could not go on without having contact to my daughter.

My experience is that it is always a bad idea... However, this decision is much more complicated as she is carrying your child. Ultimately, you cannot sacrifice every last ounce of your happiness to make someone else happy. Plus, I doubt you will ever be able to trust her again ...

Don't worry about taking her back if she leaves, that is a worry for another day. The bigger concern should be how the child/children are divided/shared between the two parents. All you can do is be the person you are, if she doesn't like you anymore-it is her loss. But don't be someone you aren't to try and win her back or keep her. Put effort into the relationship, but if is not meant to be save your effort for someone who likes you for who you are. But don't grovel or chase, that turns a woman away quicker than anything. Now I don't believe in the maxim, "treat 'em mean, keep 'em keen", but you do need to have some aspect that makes her want to be with you. So instead of groveling, organise a family outing that is only for fun. Don't discuss problems, worries, just have fun. That is probably what she sees in this other person anyways...the non-stressed interaction. I am not advocating ignoring your problems, but keep them for discussion only one day per week, and enjoy the other six days. (hard to do, but it will make you and your child(ren) feel better in the long run and that is what is important)

I always wonder why Germans are so 'nonchalant' about marriage and have no problem bringing children into the world without being married? My mother always says that marriage protects you. And when I read this post above, I know why. Because if you're not married, your rights are pretty much non-existant. You don't have any(or very few).

All this doesn't really help DMW's problem(try to get her to a counselor - although, it is my experience that most Germans are not very open to that sort of thing), it was just that this one sentence jumped out from the text at me.

I can see now that I would have been better getting married so as to offer me some rights but I was being optimistic and didn't think that something like this would happen to our relationship.

Are you certain about not having rights? I wouldn't necessarily trust the expertise of a poster. I know that my ex-girlfriend was born in Germany out of wedlock and that her father has to pay child support until she is 25. I would think that this would entitle him to some contact. But as I, too, am only a poster without definitive knowledge, don't trust my advice, find out by contacting a lawyer.

Thread on custody issues

all the ones I know got married just before giving birth so I'm not sure where the nonchalance generalisation comes from

@DeadManWalking

Recently the laws here in Germany got changed in favour of the father. I am not familiar with the exact terms, but you definitely do have rights! Read up on them, get yourself informed. Don't blame yourself for not having married yet, the reason you gave seems very sensible to me and as you can see it was good that you didn't. You should make sure to her that she knows that if she leaves you it's over. If she is bored or something and somehow hoping to have a fall-back-plan - you - she should know that she can forget it before she leaves you. Remember that life was going pretty well until she started looking for greener pastures or got promised a better life or something. Surely she must consider the feasibility of this new life of her on its chances of succeeding. Maybe if she thinks logically about it she would see that it's just a stupid reaction of her currently being a relationship which might have become boring or routine to her.. and if you have her thinking about your relationship again, that's good!