Trying to save a relationship

I know I'm not in a position of strength here when it comes to the kids and I'm already taking more abuse than I would normally simply for the sake of the children and whatI can achieve for them. If we were just a couple with no kids then I would have walked by now. A clean break would have been easier for me, but unfortunately I love my kids, even the unborn one, too much to abandon them. So I have tried placating her and also standing up to her but neither have had much success so far.
I know now that I am entitled to visitation rights, end of story, unless she claims that I am a danger to them or something. But as the lawyer said, the mother can even make this difficult for the father by claiming the children are sick, or she wants to take them somewhere whenever I want to see them. It then becomes very difficult to enforce my rights.
If I can get joint custody by giving in a bit then so be it. If I can get it by fighting then I would also try that. I just don't know which option is likely to yield the best results.
Sole custody is not likely to happen but I guess that could only come about by the confrontational path.

I would go for the visitation rights and in so doing minimise any detrimental effects on the kids by avoiding any mud-slinging which would definitely come about should you decide on direct confrontation. If she decides to make life difficult for you at a later stage, then I would haul out the heavy artillery, but only then. Always try to keep the moral high ground. Your kids may not realise it now, but they will come to thank you further down the line. Who knows, maybe sacrificing now may mean victory further down the line...

I'd agree with this completely, what matters is you keep the contact with your kids, the rest is just baubles and tinsel.

But really, you are in a position of strength. It is not strength to have control over other people. It is strength to positively affect the situation without controlling it.

Keep taking it. Eventually (probably not now), you will look back and realize that you have an infinate capacity to take abuse to protect the ones you love. Try to allow it, don't strenthen your defenses. [I expect agreement from psioni on this of course].

Eventually you will appreciate that such a clean and easy exit would provide no growth for you. Hang in there.

Yes I agree.
keep taking it because you love, and for no other reason.
This does not come to us normally. There is a supernatural aspect for it, but don't think about it, you CAN do it if you want to. Do you want to?

I may get fired for this but I have to say it: FROM MY OPINION, this is also exactly WHY Jesus endured all the beating, thorns on His head, nails..etc because HE loved us. ( He ofcourse did that also for God's Glory, but that is another story)

That is the POWER of Love.

Not asking you to feel like 'suffering', but I am thourougly convinced that that is the best thing to do if I were in your position.

I agree with Anthony. It's tough to be in your shoes. But if you manage to see the whole situation at least partly in an altruistic way, you will one day be able to look back and notice that you have grown as a result. She treated you badly, and you didn't stoop to repay her in kind. It's tough, and I'm not sure to what extent I could do it myself, considering how you feel so betrayed by her. Also, it doesn't mean you have to take all the shit she may be throwing at you. But still, you should try to push back the (justified) bitterness and try to deal with it as positively as possible.

Well, I just got a call from my "girlfriend" and she has been given the flat and signed the contract. She moves out at the end of this month.
Bye, bye 6 years of relationship...

sorry to hear that; remember you'll be okay, you really will.

wanna join the bitter and twisted club? We always welcome new members

@silva

Do you really have a group like this at TT? I'd join any day. Is it only for people without a relationship? Or is it open for twisted people in relationships as well?
@DMW
This is the beginning of your new life. Try to see it as something positive, a new chance to meet someone nice! You have tried so hard, it was very heartbreaking to read all about it. But you can say to yourself that you were the one who remained fair and you were the one who tried. That should make you feel good about yourself, your girlfriend is loosing someone very special I think.

And to think of the amount of money I spent on counselling. Start of my new life being broke and having no life because I have to work all day and then go to see my kids in the evening and then being too broke and tired to go out.

I am sure DMW is strong enough to make this a new start, but of course it is not like a regular "clean break". Got the kids and the financials to remind him every day. So be strong fellah!

My brother is going through EXACTLY the same thing as I write...he is just a few weeks behind you DMW. She announced she was off half-way through this thread! 2 young kids etc. No "official" reason, no interest in counselling.

@DMW


Not true, believe me one gets used to being broke very quickly.. Having no money doesn't mean not having a life! You are still free as a bird! And you tried and we all know you are a fighter, we've seen it after all!

don't think about it that way...at least you have a clean conscience that you did everything possible to save the relationship.

can you say your ex has a clean conscience?

being broke is just a temporary thing, it will get better.

yeah, come on, DMW, you did all you could
you'll be alright, you're a lovely person, i'm sure you'll land on your feet

I take a walk outside
I’m surrounded by some kids at play
I can feel their laughter, so why do I sear
Oh, and twisted thoughts that spin round my head
I’m spinning, oh, I’m spinning
How quick the sun can, drop away
And now my bitter hands cradle broken glass
Of what was everything
All the pictures have all been washed in black, tattooed everything...
All the love gone bad turned my world to black
Tattooed all I see, all that I am, all I’ll ever be...

Go on now go walk out the door
just turn around now
'cause you're not welcome anymore
weren't you the one who tried to hurt me with goodbye
you think I'd crumble
you think I'd lay down and die
Oh no, not I
I will survive
as long as i know how to love
I know I will stay alive
I've got all my life to live
I've got all my love to give
and I'll survive
I will survive

AND today is the first day of the rest of your life! New Life! Good Luck.

Not really, I still have to put up with her for the next 2 and a half weeks before she can move into the flat.

Ask her if she could please stay out one evening next week as you wanna get the new girlfriend round to check out the bedsprings.

I'm not even going to have a fridge to put the beer in when she leaves. See, things are worse than you can imagine...

That was a vague attempt at humour...

And at least she is gone before her birthday. No f*cking present this year I think...

Hey DMW. Don't wanna kick a man when he is down but you are gonna need to sharpen up on the wit now you are back on single street

Remember the official press release. Women find men that can make them laugh sexiest of all.

(but also helps if they have a pert bum, Ferrari, large knob, penthouse in Monaco etc)

Best thing is, she told our son and his first response was, "I want to stay here with Daddy and you can go and live in the other flat". I bet the dog would even prefer to stay with me...

Oh, I can make 'em laugh alright, Johnny. My Donald Duck impression can usually remove a pair of knickers..

I just don't feel very funny at the moment.

I actually made the choice when I was a kid. My mum kept dragging me off to live with different blokes and around the age of 12 I said "Nope - I am staying here with Dad thanks". And that was that.

But I understand yours is a proper nipper. It's dead tough. Joint custody would be nice if you can possibly get it.

Yeah, only 4 in October and the other one due in December.

Confused. I thought you said she was getting her own place?

There's 2 bitches in my house...

@DMW

You have all my sympathy laddy. I have 1 (in letters ONE) bottle of Edelstoff in the fridge at home, so if you need an emergency beer run PM me. I could even keep it cold until I get to Munich

As my brother said when I told him about my seperation "fuck it man, you didn't even get to keep the dog!".

It's not as bad as that but welcome to the days of calculating your daily-budget four seconds after your wages hit your account. Don't look at as being broke look at it more as not having to worry about spending all that extra cash.

(Actually I'll swap you the Edelstoff for a few Donald Duck lessons. Does it work for all sorts of knickers or only flimsy ones ?)

Oh, the Donald Duck has been known to work on all types...Lessons I will glady give.
Tonight I reckon I have an appointment with John Jamesons & co.

Regretfully I now spend all my time trying to get girls INTO knickers, rather than out of them.

Thank you...I needed that.

That's very Ying/Yang Johnny.

Time to go and do some talking with her. See If I can persaude her to give me joint custody.

Being German she will probably say:

"Yah, dass ist no problem. Here's a joint and some custard for your tea"

Man, you are a healthy dose of laughter at the moment.

Try not calling her a bitch to her face, something tells me thats not the right approach.
And this time try not to repeat the telling her who she can hang out with episode.
To me as a woman that just screams control freak/stalker. IIRC its what precipitated her telling you she wouldn't let you see the kids in the first place.
Think yourself lucky, based on a situation I saw with a close friend her boyfriend started out like that at the beginning of the break up, by the end of it he was full on stalking and the police were involved.
From what I saw with my friend if a guy behaved like that (the situation you described telling her who she can hang out with) to me I'd move to the other end of the country not just a nearby apartment.

I'll try not to call her anything to her face. My main aim at the moment is to secure the best deal with regards to the kids. Once that's done, then we'll see.
I wasn't try to control who she could see but meeting up with the guy that she fancys and wants to get together with while telling me she wants us to work was a bit of a piss take really.

Just had a chat with her and now I am in The Arc trying to drown my sorrows...
I made it clear that I want joint custody and she has partially agreed to it provided I don't make the moving out too difficult for her...

Get it in writing as soon as possible!
More words of wisdom to come, but I need a beer first to help me think.

Or maybe just some sleep!

Trust me, I want her to sign this as quickly as possible. She seems a bit scared by the fact that I was talking about lawyers and such...

So did you get that beer eurovol?

OK, it is over. You took my advice and followed it through until the excruciating end. She may come back, but don't count on it and if she does, she will want it to be on her terms and it will not survive period. After several years, things could be different, but it will take her that long to really get a grip of what she has done. To add insult to injury, you may not be alone the day the second child is born. There will be much emotion and do not get cought up in it. She may want you back at this time, but don't do it unless that feeling lasts within her for more than a year. Tough stuff this is going to be and she may turn to someone else for the immediate. Don't give in, but do tell her that if she really wants you, then she will still feel this way on the kid's 1st b-day. If she is serious, things can wait till then. It is your decision now, either you want to go through hell for the possibility of getting her back (she doesn't deserve it) or just cut the emotional strings now and move on?

Now, that is not all bad and that is how you need to look at it. Juggling a life and kids is hard enough, but juggling a life away from kids and trying to see those kids will be much more difficult. You will need to make a schedule. You can no longer just come home and hang with the kid and kid to come. The friendlier you stay with "mom" the better for you. You and her must stay partners in the raising of your kids and that is the most important thing there is. Fuck the rest, take care of your kid(s). Show how you can be the best "Dad" ever and be that dad.

Now number 2) Go out and get laid with a one night stand. You need it dude. You deserve it and don't think for a minute that she isn't because she is pregnant. Won't dwell on this point, but it is time to get yours.

Now last but not least, hang with the guys and watch sports! Many of us will be at the ARC on Sunday to watch NFL. It is the sport of the Gods and testosterone filled fun.

Thanks eurovol, great post until you mentioned NFL...
I doubt that we can fix things or that I would even want to. I've had too much lying from her to ever be able to trust her again.
My main priority now is the kids. Whatever happens between her and me is secondry.

Great to hear that you are on the right track. No matter how mad at her you get, she is the mother of your children and it take a mother and a father to raise them. For their sakes, hate her all you want, but be "parents" together. Now, I think there is a girl at the bar waiting for your body.

Nah, it seems to be just Australian guys...

Well, then surf porn or head to another bar!
http://www.mpegoutlet.net/ or perhaps Gunther's.

Ach, I'd love to but I don't feel like moving tonight. Porn it will have to be...