Trying to save a relationship

@DMW
My sentiments exactly
It seems a bit extreme and although it will help solve once very sad situation it will create a whole heap of new problems.

presumably not much more than you are paying for them at the moment though? Admittedly it will leave less money for your 'new life'.

I really don't like that idea at all MB - why avoid trying to pay for your kids?

Don't renig on paying for your kids - they will find out if you did that and resent it. They may possibly hear things like, "no, you can't have that because your daddy won't give us any money" - and it may be true. (Ok, my dad paid, but not very much and it was true).

@BoomtownRat

It is very extreme I know. It's not so much avoiding to pay for the kids. That he really should be doing and would probably love doing. It's paying for her till all eternity when she is the one who is basically preparing to leave him for another man. I find that terrible and don't know how a woman can face herself in the mirror living like that! My idea was rather following (first rough sketch, only read his latest posts this morning):
- he get himself declared bankrupt
- he starts a dummy business or something and works as a contractor for the dummy company - maybe the business is seated on an offshore island or something, something shifty like the Isle of Man. At any rate, he gets to work, earn but the government here don't get to know about it or can't touch the company
- he gets to decide whom he pays for that way! He gives his kids money, but she doesn't get anything.

This was my early-morning-brainwave.

Nice MB , totally agree with you , I sse absolutely nothng wrong with paying for your kids , you should do that but your relationship is broken now and quite honestly your ex broke it so she shouldnt get shit. It's what Bob Geldof spoke of - the misery of the being the ex-husband back in a student's bedsit in his mid thirties.

AFAIK - once the youngest reaches kindergarden age, she is obliged to get a job and suport herself, at least. Before that might be kind of hazy in this land of Kinder Kirche Kuche.

DDBug is right, you have only have to pay support for the mother until the kids are in school.

just playing devil's advocate really, but shouldn't she get money for looking after the kids though, seeing as she might not be able to work because she is looking after the kids? Having kids is a responsibility you know - which is why I'm only just about slowly, maybe, coming round to the idea that I might be responsible enough for such a big thing by now.

exactly, that would seem pretty reasonable

@DMW,

I have read your posts and know your situation quite a bit, though I did not read ALL of them.

I am sad for you that you have to go through this. Admire your keenness to take care of your kids.
I think we cannot change other peoples minds, but you can still be a good person and treat them like that. That will win their heats. If your GF really wants to quit, there is nothing you can do. but you CAN however, do good to them, including your kids, so that atleast the kids will know the difference. As many here have told, if you love them, let them free and care for them if they are willng.
I'd say If I were in this situation I'd continue to love them even if they abandon me. ( we all mess up in life, ( you know me! ), there is ALWAYS hope.
But the only sensible thing to do now I guess, is to continue to do good to those who hurt you ( intentional or not ).
I know it is not easy, I did not find it easy when I was in difficult situation, BUT I say it is definitely possible to do it.
So I do not know what you can do to be good to them. Depends on what your GF wants, but for kids, you probably know what is best at this time.

I think lying to the authorites to declare bankrupt is a bad thing, when you are not bankrupt.
Be honst with yourself.
my 2 cents.

hope your GF sees the good you do and know that you have changed. Maybe even it all goes away...I hope all the time...

Well according to the lawyer it would work out as more than I can afford. Its easier to live on a certain amount as a family than having to buy stuff seperately for 2 places. Plus she would get a set amount and its not like we can then try and save or cut back on something when need be.

true. It must be surely related to what you earn though??? otherwise its crazy

Maybe you should speak with a lawyer in Ireland. They may have different laws concerning visitation, money for the mother or other points of consideration. It may offer you more hope.

The amount you have to pay is based on the Düsseldorfer Tabelle, DMW and it just went up at the start of July this year.

It's based on the childs age and your net income.

However it's only a guideline and does not, in itself, have any legal status.

there are a number of guidelines to ensure that the person paying the support actually has enough to live on. Barely

If I'm not mistaken, while you have to pay for the kids in the long run, you only have to pay for their mother for a period of up to three years, if you were not married. Afterwards, it is considered "reasonable" that she starts working again and earns her own money. That's what I remember from a friend's case a few years ago, but it might have changed since then.

Yeah, I know. I guess thats the reasoning behind it, but I should at least get joint custody then if I am paying for them. Plus I used to get something else out of the cohabitation situation which I will no longer get, namely she provided the "housewife" side of things while being kept. I paid for everything, rent, heating, electricity and phone for the last 4 years. Even when she was able to go back to work last October I didn't ask her too.

Yeah, I went through that yesterday with the lawyer.

@DMW
I would like to agree with you with regards to the custody but not knowing all of the history I cant.
Just because you dont see the kids should not free you of your obligation to support them.
I know it is very difficult and emotive but I would suggest if communication with their mother is so hard that you try everything within the law to resolve the situation.
It will save a whole lot of heartache for all parties later on in life.
Just stay strong and follow your heart
When the head gets involved all sorts of crazy shit happens

I don't think I said that I wouldn't support them What I mean is that for the amount of money I have to pay I would expect a bit more than just having visiting rights which will basically be decided by her anyway. I want to have a say in how they are brought up as well.

A mate of mine had a big split up, two kids, not married, him English, her German.

She threatened court etc. He refused point blank and went to live in a caravan, while paying her decent maintainance and visiting the kids frequently.

This went on for about a year, and effectively allowed the whole thing to calm down, also infering that dragging the issue through the court would actually make her worse off financially.

He has battled hard and is now in a new and happy relationship and sees his kids almost daily.

If it's any consolation, 'interim' relationships rarely survive the trauma of a split up. The new guy may be feeling all puffed up being the pillar of support he thinks he is but if essentially it is just a relationship gone wrong she will drop him once things between the two of you have been worked out, one way or the other.

Keep your chin up, these things do settle down eventually. And use your friends, vent your anger and frustration. They'll happily listen, or not, and it helps.

there you go DMW - you can live in a caravan! cool eh!

The crowd at my Aikido club are gonna love training with me...

@DMW

Will give you loads of kime to do very good techniques. You aren't a dead man. You cheer up!

I don't think DMW could possibly be accused of trying to deny the responsiblity involved.

I can't believe I'm saying this - but I tihnk psioni has point too. A calm head is needed and practially the only thing you can do is to be the good guy and be gracious at all times - thats the only thing in your power to do if you follow me ??

However - I do think that bankruptcy thing is worth considering - ask the lawyer about that side of it. You shouldn't have to do this and in princicple i don't agree with it - but the law is an ass here so you have to be practical.

You didn't do Aikido in phibsboro did you ??

Well, why ? You can say nice things to me, just like you advice DMW to do...can you not..?

Hey, when I am not blabering nonsense, I am a nice gal, you know.

No, I only started it here in Munich.

agree too. I was more replying to the bankruptcy and skipping the paymenst issue.

The issue with the bankruptcy thingy (Which I don't agree) with is that the declaration of bankruptcy is only the first step. The crucial bit is that he then has to go through all these hoops and set up some sort of offshore company in order to hide his future earnings - is that practical?

Sorry psioni - it was only a joke - I forgot to put the smiley face in

Best of luck DMW !

I though you were serious. That 'broke' my day

Hey DMW, as I said to you the other day, go for broke. Attack is the best form of defence. Try and get custody of the kids yourself, perhaps by proving that she is unfit to bring the kids up herself. I'm not sure how easy it is to prove mental instability, but it's an avenue worth exploring. The option I mentioned was the constitutional right that men now have to their kids. Not a lawyer so I can't elaborate on the details, but also worth having a look into.

Good luck!

Yeah, well I think see is f*cking crazy but I don't know how easy it would be to prove it to a court...

@DMW

That's what most men say about women. Although you can't prove it.

no chance.

Best bet, for the sake of your kids, make peace.
You know the effect it has on kids when parents fight? huge!
You love your kids? make peace. your GF will finally realize your value, inspite of
your past mistakes. ( who doesn't have past mistakes ?) .

The greatest thing humans can do is to change anothers thoughts!
You have the oppertunity to do it. DO IT. regardless of if it works or not!

my 3 cents.

@psioni

Read the whole thread please. He isn't the one that needs to make peace here. She is the one that left him and it seems to be for another man.

i've read them.

I am saying, inspite of that, DMW can still make peace.

We ALL make the mistake of thinking it is always the others fault ( in this case, it is I think ), BUT then we stop there! We ALWAYS have a choice to make peace with our enemy! ( if he consideres her an enemy, is another issue ).
we have the power to ACT in peace, lovingly towards our enemies at any time.
just do that and see what happens...
in this case it is better for the kids & DWM & possibly to his GF...
if nothing, YOU yourself is more peaceful.

I meant that.!

Oh FFS, i really normally don't to put people on ignore, but Psioni if you are going to start spouting your bullshit on normal people's threads as well as on the christian threads, then you are my first ignore candidate of 2005 - tschüssi!!

@DWM

As you can see from this thread, there is no shortage of opinions. Everyone has opinions on matters that touch so deeply. Just keep in mind that there are many more people here giving you advice than the people who have actually lived this.

I am not saying that their opinions should not be considered, but they are not all coming from experience and understanding.

The ones coming from judgment or fear may feel right to you in your deep state of emotional confusion, but may not serve you in the long run.

Try to listen to your heart, not your fear and pain.

Best of luck,

Anthony

It seems that there are some people here who have experienced something similar but different people have responded in different ways. I'm torn between trying to make a situation that is best for the kids where we can remain on "good" terms and not letting her walk all over me simply because she has the desire and the power.

Well, thank you!
Now I can guess what kind of a person you are!
Just to remi nd you, this is an open public forum.
If you are not happy with ME posting here, I suggest you look elsewhere.
I didn't ask you to agree with me, but it shows that you gets pissed off with other
peoples opinions. Am I not entitled to my opinion?
Comon people...let the freak live!

So, you people are the only 'normals' I guess...

@ everyone against psioni

I don't particularly agree with psioni's beliefs specifically, she has even stated sage advice, but I am saddend by the personal attacks on her from people who don't realize that she has her heart in the right place.

She is consciously and unconsiously inviting and provoking these attacks, but you all should step back and decide if you should participate.

I had no idea that I am provoking anything !
I am talking my heart!
I mean what I say.

oh well.. I guess I will keep low...

@Topsy yeah that was pretty harsh, psioni didnt say anything about christianity... I can only assume you were trying to turn this thread into another religion bash session by mentioning it? Why bother? Just give it a rest eh, I know I am sick of it...

Thats very logical. But what does logic have to do with it ??

Again I think psioni has a point. If you honestly think you can't get custody (think hard about that), then possibly the turn the other cheek approach is all you can do.

And sometimes things sort themselves out on there own. This other guy is playing the good guy at the moment. He doesn't have to do anything right - he just has to not do anything wrong. For whatever reason your girl is fixed on him. Maybe all you can do is beat him at his own game - wait for him to fuck up.

Just a though - I don't ahve the answer !

Agree with Anthony on Psioni.

i didn't actually post anything on the "christian-bashing" threads after the first couple of pages on the pierced woman thread
i simply ignored the threads

@DMW I think you are arriving at a good place in your attitude.

Of course the opinions you get from "experienced" people will be different as the experience affects different people differently. This experience should be one where people learn to let go of their pride and attachments, and if they don't they will get different results.

There is nothing you can do to "fix" the past; what is done, is done. The fact that your GF acted in a way that violated your expectations and even what you thought was some sort of binding contract you had with each other is now irrelevant. You have no such contract; the promise you had to each other to never hurt each other is non-binding, non-enforcable, and unrealistic.

(When you need another distraction, I suggest reading, "The Power of Now", by Eckart Tolle).

Anthony

Topsy is a grand gal!

I think what everyone is trying to tell DMW is to 'take the high road' - don't lower yourself to her level be becoming vindictive and try to combat her negativity with your positive attitude. You will feel better about it in the long wrong. So many times, when I've look back (to my way earlier years) I was vindictive. Later I took the high road, and it was the much better path, believe me.

I agree with the advice to deal with her on better terms. You will feel better in the long run. You can not control her actions, but you can control your own. Find a few good friends and you can berate her actions to them over some beers, but when you speak with her, only remain civil and friendly, it will make everything run smoother in the end.