Trying to save a relationship

@ MajorBummer
I'm just following normal logic - situation was bad but has gotten better over the YEARS but she wants to bail NOW - that doesnt make sense. Sure women have been neglected , sure I neglected a few myself , but I sure as bejaysus wouldnt tell someone that was why I started to get close with my fuckin massage teacher.

I'm reminded of the line in "As good as it gets" from Jack Nichelson's character on how he writes women so well "I think of a man , then I take away reason and accountability" - problem with that is there ARE women who have both.

EDIT @ Yeti
Aren't we all always told women are better at communicating than men in those stoopid magazines ? If this was business everyone here would be yelling "You're being conned" ... I just hope DMW does the best thing for himself and his children and gets the fuck out.

then again, you go out the night after you have a good counseling session, when not paying enough attention to her was an issue? I take it she has other plans tonght?

@ bb Just because I thought it better to give her as much room as posible at the moment. I don't think think staying in tonight will accomplish much espically as we will be avoiding talking about anything that could lead to a fight.

Leaving his children is not the best thing, for him or for them.

@DMW - yeah go out tonight. Get pissed, get laid, or get in a fight. Maybe all three?

See earlier posts willya... debated and defeated.

so your effectively saying she is right to do what she is doing really? She will presumably get to be able to keep the kids and you are only trying to keep things together so that you can spend time with the kids - which is completely understandable from your point of you but like I say - its almost as if you are admitting she is doing the right thing by leaving.

good luck, whatever happens

@ btr, no not really. I wouldn't want her to go regardless and would still try to salvage the relationship but the point at which I say I've tried and can do no more is different because of the kids. My own hurt from rejection I could deal with easier if it was possible for a clean break, but seeing as we are now forever linked by 2 children I can't make that break.
If it were just the 2 of us splitting up because there was no chance left, I would leave Munich and either go back to Ireland or travel, head somewhere completely different.
However I can't bring myself to leave my kids and so while I remain to try and be the best father possible to them I will never be able to remove her from my life.

Oh and DMW, be very careful with the alcohol. It's a depressant and you will feel worse tomorrow (if you have too many, that is). But, even a little alcohol will make you feel worse emotionally. Trust me on that one.

This thing about alcohol being a depressant. I understand and have read that a million times. Just doesnt work for me like that.

I mean...if it really was a depressant then the Oktoberfest would be full of miserable people slashing their wrists? No?

Some of the best nights of my life have been when pissed.

@kitkat64 Oh, I know. But I don't think I can feel much worse that I already do.
Plus being Irish its pretty much the standard response to any situation...

He and she agreed to go back and he agreed to go to an extra one. He may need the extra one for his own mental health and she see's the extra one as extra trying...


Questions 1 & 2 here. This is not a bad sign. You have to convince her that you can live up to the promise, but only if you really want too. It can't be faked.

Your going after her has paid off to a point. Continue, but don't expect immediate results and don't push. That is what is meant by giving space, not giving up and moving out.


If she were so intent, she would not agree to another session.

The real definition of space and not what others seem to think is space. That other kind of space is basically giving up. DMW needs to continue to do what he knows he should have been doing all along, remain patient and be there. She may decide that she wants to talk about things and if you are off getting drunk and all depressed then you will miss the opportunity. It is up to you too you know.


Wrong attittude dude. She talked openly and will attend a session again with you. All is not lost. Be positive, show positive and if you have to suffer to become something you don't want to be, then maybe you need to ask yourself the question again and then answer yourself honestly whether you want this or not?
Plan on doing things that you can do as a "family" and invite her along. Giving her time is not an excuse to go off and get drunk. Sure, you may need a night out, but if I were you, I wouldn't be coming home drunk at 4am. Not a good idea.

Do what you think is best, but be sure that you want to do it and do your best at it!

I appreciate that of course and I know you don't want her to go. what I meant more was that if you put yourself in her shoes then you're implying that her decision is perhaps the right one (for her, not for you of course). What I'm saying is - can you see why she is contemplating 'divorce'?

I can see it but I don't quite understand it. To me the action is an over reaction given the cirumstances. I believe it is something we can fix for the better for all of us.

Glad to hear you can hold on to that belief DMW after all the advice you had here!

Sounds like you have a good counsellor - stick with it. What you really need from friends right now is support not advice telling you what to do and what not to do, about what worked for them, or what they read in one pop psychology book.

I don't know what your babysitting arrangements are but does your girlfriend get out enough herself ?

Yeah, she gets out when she wants and I look after our son.

so you're resentful about that and have been for quite a while? You don't ever get out together, leaving the kid with a babysitter? Bring that up at counseling.

I agree with Eurovol's post above btw. You're finally talking, and it sounds like you really needed it.

mm, i do the same and i'm married. its the modern relationship thing. i was at the child crisis pschologist last wednesday (because of oscars accident.. not our relationship) and they commented n the fact that we, my wife and i, have a very seperated role and liesure life. but what else can you do, babysitters cost wonga? my question to you is have you been out at all? cos i think you'll need it. not getting ott wasted, which ok your irish and i'm from yorkshire so we're both geneticly related when it comes to drowning our sorrows in some brewer's finest, but a couple of bevvies max and good old chin wag. when me and my more beutiful looking better half have a tiff, i cook for her, in fact i cook as much as i can for the family, and we allways end up talking alot about things before and during the meal. i'm wobbling on i know, but to me it sounds like you're on the right tracks.

@ gideon, yeah I also do most of the cooking at home, mostly because I'm a fussy eater. I get out twice a week to training, sometimes 3 times a week but only rarely out for a few pints, usually TT events and then maybe once a month.

(I just meant that DMW didn't write "we each go out alone sometimes and the other one looks after the kid" -- which I think would be just fine. He instead implied that the woman gets out whenever she wants and he's stuck at home all the time. Or at least he may feel right now like that's the case. This is in parentheses because it's a bit of a tangent.)

Sorry about the misunderstanding Gen. No, we pretty much take it in turns. Its not like I can't get out when I want.

(oh ok, that's good. Glad to hear it!)

Where is my update from Monday night please DMW???

We are going together to a session next Monday, the 20th. We haven't been back together since the first one. I was at a session with the counsellor on my own last Friday.
That was interesting. The counsellor was trying to make sure I didn't take all the blame for the situation and tried to make me feel good about myself again. It worked to a certain extent. She also said that maybe we just aren't compatible and that there are plenty of other women out there who would appreciate me for the person I am.
However, my girlfriend and I have been talking more openly in the last week, without it turning into fights and we seem to be better able to understand the problems we have with each other.
I don't want to get my hopes up because she hasn't actually said that anything has changed.

so the counselling was 'there's plenty more fish in the sea'

glad it helped a bit anyway

I'm glad it's sounding a bit more positive...hope it stays so. Good luck with your next visit.

Brings to mind:

SPIKE:Well, isn't this perhaps a good
opportunity to... slip her one?

WILLIAM
Spike. For God's sake -- she's in
trouble -- get a grip.

SPIKE
Right. Right. You think it's the
wrong moment. Fair enough.

(pause)

Do you mind if I have a go?

On the councillor subject - apparently it is well known amongst those in the field of sex councilling that something like 80-90% of "sexual" problems can be fixed simply by swapping partners, but of course it's not really in their job specs to promote this option.

Hang in there DMW.

Well after nearly 2 months without sex, I'd nearly be willing to swap for anything...

Well if anyone is interested in an update...last week things seemed to be going well until Friday when we had a massive fight. She left on Saturday morning with our son and the dog and went to stay with a friend. We are meant to go to another counseling session tonight but seeing as we haven't spoke since then I don't know what's happening. I guess I'll go along anyway and see if she shows up.

It's tough, but keep it up. Don't want to reproach yourself later for having given up.

Well, I'm back from todays counseling session. It was interesting and involved a lot more raw emotion which led to tears on both sides. But it also seemd to lead further than before and she came out and said that she wants things to work with me and still loves me. It was the first time she has actually admitted this since the problem started. We even took a long walk together afterwards and has a very open and relaxed talk.
However she needs some time apart so as of tomorrow she will move back into the flat and I will move out for a while in the hope that it will help things.
Maybe with me gone she will realise what she is missing. I don't know, but I feel much calmer now than before. Maybe things will work, maybe not, but its not over yet.

Good on ya DMW. If I was a religious man I would say my prayers are with you...but I'm not, so just stick at it and wish you all the best. Quite a rollercoaster you picked to ride :-)

Thanks marka, it has definitely been an emtional rollercoaster ride lately. Not something I would recommend to anyone. But hopefully we will both emerge wiser at the end of it all, whatever the outcome.

I've been lurking on the thread since the beginning, not saying anything, because, well, how can I say it! I suck at relationships and advice would not be best coming from me... but I am happy you are progressing forward, and can openly talk. I wish you the best of luck, and a happy and postive environment for your children (both of them!).

I am a strong supporter of Therapy- it helped me personally, and have friends that have used councelling in times of some marriage conflicts. Just opening the lines of communication is always good.

You know, before this I was pretty skeptical about how much counseling could help (never having been before) but I must admit that it does or can make a huge difference. Having an impartial third party put things in to perspective really forces you to look at things differently.

Talking is the first step, but there will be many more to come. It is not a race, it is a marathon that will last your whole life. Once you get past the hard part, it is all downhill. Keep the faith in what you're doing.

Hey DMW , I'm really glad to hear that you are least keeping a dialog going. I hope it works out for you both.

I just hope that this seperation won't last too long and that it doesn't affect our ability to communicate. It also means I won't get to see my son everyday which is going to be very hard for me.

Cliche time:

"If you love something, let it go. If it
comes back it's yours. If it doesn't, it never was".

"Abstinence makes the hard go fondle her"

Wow, that's good start, just give her time and space, definitely do not press her, but if she still loves you then there is hope.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed for you.

Happy to hear things are working out for you - more importantly hope that you are taking care of yourself. Continued good luck man.

Fingers crossed for you DMW... though I would offer you one peice of advice... dont get any ideas from the Romantic Gestures thread. TT'er seem to be twisted bunch.

Keep smiling

Or the alternative:

"If you love something, let it go. If it
comes back it's yours. If it doesn't, hunt it
down and kill it."

But seriously, it's great to hear that the last visit was so positive. It sounds like you being the one moving out is probably also a good move. Now perhaps when your main contact is during the counseling sessions, all of your contact will be positive engagements, and she can appreciate what she does like about you rather than focusing on what she doesn't. On top of that, if she's the one in the house that you've shared, she'll be surrounded by reminders of you rather than being distanced from it in another apartment.

Good luck! I hope it continues in the positive direction!

Oh, I don't know about that potbelly...6783kqe's idea of sleeping with her sister sounds pretty good.

It is very strange for a women becoming pregnant and wanted to leave the relationship. Are you sure the child that is coming is yours?

Aye, pretty sure about that. Guess I can't be 100% unless I get a DNA test when its born but I don't have any doubts that its my kid.

Nothing strange about it NetSpeed, imho.

It is a concern. 2 months of "no-action" at home also rings alarm bells with me, as this would be a typical guilt reaction if she had been playing an away game.

2 months with no action?!?!?!

what's the point to being in a relationship then?!?!?!

Easy for you to say, since your relationship is obviously going fine...