Trying to save a relationship

You... mean... you're ... married ?

p

you taking snaps of my woman?

OK ... enough with the BS... someone's heart is geniunely broken ... pls keep us posted DMW and once again wish you all the luck in the world

Been there and had that done to me. Have stayed out of this, but someone(s) are giving not so good advice. Actually, their advice sucks!
Questions;
1) Are you giving her what she wants and needs?
2) Are you spending too much time elsewhere?

This guy is probably not in love with your woman as much as he is in love with the thought of taking a woman away from someone else. He is showering her with attention and listening to her. Are you?
An ex-girlfriend of mine used to spend hours talking with an orchaestra colleague about his failed relationship with another musician. The fucker started hitting on her as the replacement and she fell for it. He even talked her into giving him a blowjob one night because he was really depressed and needed something. When I found out about this, that was the end and guess what? He dumped her right after that! She came crawling back, but still tried to blame it on me and to hell with that!

How far along is your GF? You do know that they get extremely horny around 6 months don't you? Asswipe may have some kinda of pregnancy fetish and is looking to reap the benefits. He talks up your GF while she is down about the prego bit and waits for the horniness to set in. She is confused and thinks simply that he loves her more than you do. DO NOT LET HIM GET AWAY WITH THAT SHIT!!!

Here is what you do:
Take the time to make her feel special-she is carrying your child afterall!

Go to Mr. Buttinsky and tell him to bug off or else! Most of these dweebs are not real men, but scavengers. Do not get into a fight with him, but simply be clear that his place in not in between you two and that if he were a real man, he would bugger off.

Go to the counselling and express how much she means to you. Do not bring Mr Asswipe into the conversation. Do not be fixated on him. If it is brought up, simply state that you feel that his presence is not helping the situation and that she needs to decide for herself without his influence. Don't make her start defending him. She will!

Don't be afraid to have sexual contact with her. You most likely aren't Long Dong Silver and won't do any damage and if you are LDS, then there are other ways...

You want her, then you fight for her!

@eurovol

solid advice there dude. remember that this guy is a symptom and not the problem. he is not helping but it is unlikely that it is really about him, more likely the relationship is in trouble and he is just hoping to get something out of it. keep him out of the discussion as much as possible, and don't turn your anger on him if he does get mentioned - will not help your cause.

if you can tell in counselling that she is not really interested in saving your relationship, and this may, i'm sad to say, be the case, then go round and kick his head in. might as well get your money's worth.

DMW
I just had time to read this and this is what I think:

It takes two to tango. Why did you not marry her years ago? Because you were not sure yourself. You probably felt that something was missing or that it wasn't a very satisfying relationship and so it took you so long to make sure? Usually when you really love someone and feel the connection you don't wait 5 years and 2 children to make sure that it is right to get married. Now that she is not interested in you anymore she has become more interesting for you. Could this be?
I don't think there is anything you can do. There obviously is no deep connection or else she would not have fallen for the other guy. Also there is no communication I think. Why didn't you guys talk about your problems before? Did she ever mention to you that this other guy exists? I am sure that if she has known him for a year that there must have been something going on and they talked about it as well. She didn't just decide from one day to the other that she wants to leave you. She must have been unhappy for a while or maybe just unsatisfied. And I am sure you felt it. Didn't you feel anything for 1 year?
It does not mean that you are doing something wrong. You guys are just not right for each other. Most probably as you said she feels more of a deeper connection to the German guy cause she is German. There is nothing wrong with that.
All you can do now is just be patient and relax. You made your point already. Don't chase after her and just give her space. You cannot make anyone love you.
I think eventually you will meet someone better or someone you feel more connected too and you won't wait 5 years to marry her!!! And why would you want someone back who doesn't love you? She does not sound very responsible from what you say. Don't you want someone you can trust?
Just be happy that it is over. I know that you can't let go now but eventually you will. Just wait.

More bad advice! You want her, go after her and make her know that you want her.
Forget these women who take the woman's side as if you are nobody. Maybe she is waiting for you to prove that you are worth it. If you don't, you will regret it forever.

Eurovol, you are a bit more opinionated than even normal. I didn't think it was possible.

No. I am not taking the woman's side Euroval.
I said it takes two to tango.

IMO, it's hard to say whether anyone's advice here is good or bad. After all, what DMW has told us is just the basics of the situation, and there is tons of stuff that we don't know. I don't think we can fairly say there is no chance left for this to work out either, we don't know the two of them, their history together and the dynamics of their relationship. And (I know I risk being chastised for taking the woman's side), we don't really know what's going through her head at the moment either.

In one situation fighting for the woman and letting her know you want her may be the best thing, but in other situations it may just end up pissing the woman off, especially if she's feeling pressured by him already. DMW knows his GF best, he'll know what tactic is right.

I agree with those who are arguing that you can't blame this behavior on the hormones. They may have some influence on our behavior but I highly doubt hormones during pregnancy would cause a woman to want to leave her man. I'd think the laws of nature would make it more likely that she'd clutch on to him even more at this time.

And I have to agree with parnell on the point that there's nothing like the vision of your man getting together with another woman to snap a woman out of something like this.

I for one happen to agree with eurovol. from what I have read, it seems that the communication was lacking in the past and she most certainly started to feel unwanted/unloved. This guy is a creep and is most likely just looking to steal her away. When women are in a situation like this, they tend to be easily persuaded by these fast-talking men who are only after one thing. If you want to save your relationship, follow eurovol's advice and fight for her...show her how much she really means to you. And don't just stop with it once you have 'won' her back. You must must must continue to show her that she is special to you and that you care for her. Talk about your feelings and make sure the lines of communication are always open.
And for the record, you can have a normal, healthy, functional long term relationship without getting married. It just depends on the two people involved and what they want. If you are truly committed, then it's in your heart and soul, not on a peice of paper.

@Red

has that ever worked for you or someone you know, the old "make her jealous" approach? my take on it is that if there is major imbalance in the relationship she will only care about you and someone else if her new thing goes pear shaped. which will just drag you back into the dodgy relationship. it's like a trial separation, tis the beginning of the end, in my eyes.

@ latecomer
Worked for me many times... especially when old relationship wasnt exactly dead... (hadnt slept with new chic yet).

I don't know what to say about this thread. I don't like being single, but on the other hand, it does have the virtue of being simple and stress free. I hope things work out okay for you deadmanwalking.

On the advice from Eurovol, I don't know if that would be the best to take or not. First, realise if you talk with aptly named Buttinsky, you may have at least one of three results: 1) He was not flirting with her, just thought of her as a friendly student...but now that he knows that she is fond of him... 2) he may become aggressive and violence may result 3) you may have created too much of a scene and due to embarassament, she will leave you. Granted many more outcomes may occur, but I doubt it will be the cartoon hero fighting the "bad man" and bringing back the adoring woman. But Eurovol is spot on when he tells you to treat her nice, find out why she fell in love with you in the first place. Treat her special, let her know that you care for her.

I want to fight for and I am trying but its really hard to keep that feeling the whole time. Sometimes I flip back to thinking "well f**k you, why should I be the only one making an effort." I can't be certain whether the positive or negative reinforcement are having more effect. My attempts to be nice seem to greeted with suspicion or scorn while the times I stand up for myself result in her taking a stubborn stand.
For instance, last night I walked in after work and brought her 2 roses, one red and one white. I just handed them to her and was met with, "whats this, you just buy me flowers now because I want to leave you?". Fine, I ignored it. Maybe it seemed like a desperate gesture but I want her to know that I do care.
Problem is that the situation, is already affecting our son who can pick up on the negativity. I am trying to give him loads of attention and keep telling him how much I love him.
Last night I took him out to the playground, where he happened to wet himself. This is normal for him at all. I asked him why he didn't tell me that he needed to go pee like usual and he said he was scared. I asked what he was scared of and he told me he was scared because mummy keeps getting mad at daddy.
This has happened a few times lately that he has started wetting himself or the bed at night and this was never a problem before.
Things like this make me so mad then. I hate to see him suffering like this and unfortunately I can only blame her for making this situation, whether or not it is true. She won't even attempt the little things, the habits that our son knew and enjoyed just to please him.
For instance, we had a ritual that whenever one of us was going out my son would go to the window with the other one and wave goodbye to us.
He still does it every time but now I go to the window with him to wave goodbye if she is leaving, but she refuses to go to the window to wave goodbye to me when I leave, so he waves goodbye alone.

Tough times. Just remember that she will not do the things that you want her to do concerning your child. This makes it all the more important to demonstrate your love for your child/children and you should overemphasise this. I would also stay far away from insulting his mother to him. He should grow up loving her and you. You should say at most to him that Mommy is going through a tough time with the pregnancy and that she loves you (the son) more than ever..but it is a hard time for her. Don't criticise her to him, he should not be a pawn. Just love him, only speak with respect concerning his mom and I hope that your love for him helps him through this difficult time.

@ DMW
Eurovol is talking through his tits ... there's a book you should go out and get today "Love must be tough" by Dr. James Dobson ... yeh he's a Christian dude but this book I can promise you will help you. She's not respecting you and you're not respecting yourself by letting her disrespect you ... you are going further and further into the hole. If you really want this to work you are going to have to show major fucking character.

That is heartbreaking to read, just utterly heartbreaking.
And that's the sort of thing you need to discuss on Monday. You need to say that your son is troubled and scared.
Sometimes people can't see the wood for the trees and it takes a third party to say "this atmosphere is hurting not just your husband but your children, the one who is there and the one who is coming".
What a horrible, horrific situation, my heart just goes out to you.I really hope that you can get to a better relationship (even as two singles if needs be) that is good for your kids and eventually good for you.
BBC article

Now is the time for great patience. Remain positive and stay the course. Continue doing the little things and don't make a big deal about it. She is noticing and most likely just testing your sincerety. And above all, take care of your son! He is priority number one!

@DMW

Man this is turning into a really tough call. On the one side you need to show that you are fighting for her, and on the other side that she cannot walk all over you. Roses are perhaps too romantic I think, but clearly you are only doing your best.

Funnily enough when we went to the councillor it was on Wednesday evenings at something like 7pm as I remember. This forced us to get a babysitter for junior, and of course the session only lasts one hour...so this meant it was logical to go for dinner at 8pm together or it was a waste of the babysitters time. (plus we did not want to advertise why we were going out in the first place).

The "enforced" 8pm dinner after a civilised adult conversation with the councillor was possibly the best part...the conversation naturally continued over dinner. Clearly at the moment you are not having civilised conversations (you are at the classic "looking to score points off each other" stage).

At the risk of generalising I think women normally do prefer to "talk things out". When women moan about their day they are not actually looking for your logical solution to the problems...they just need to talk it out more than men. Obviously she is currently at the so-pissed-off-I-cannot-talk-to-him level.

If the councillor can break through the initial barriers that you both have it may all flow from there. You just need to get her talking again.

As I said before just give it a rest. Those things are out of place now. Her reaction is kind of like "why didn't you show me attention in the past" and it makes her angry now. The situation is a bit too heated now for roses. It takes two to tango. She doesn't seem like a responsible mom or else she would not throw those scenes in front of her child or just gone off with someone else. You don't always have to take the easy way out. If there was some communication and respect in the relationship she would not have just gone her own way and excluded you.
The best thing you can do right now is try to be as diplomatic as possible so you won't have problems with the kids and that situation.

These are exactly my thoughts and worries about confronting him. I don't know whether the risk is worth the possible outcome.

I guess you could just have him whacked goodfellas stylie and be done with it?

p.s. Maintain a sense of humour at all times. This is what seperates us from the natives.

I think that it a generalisation that many find to be true, I ceratinly do and I know that has been a problem before. She would often complain to me about something and me being the kind of guy I am would try to give her a solution to the problem. Something that she then didn't seem to want. She just wanted some to listen and empathise with.

Quick 2 part question DMW, that may have been raised, but this thread is too long that it'd take until Tuesday to find it:

Was there perhaps one incident that triggered this whole issue, and/or how long has this been going on?

Well then, anyone know where I can hire a cheap hitman?

I can't think of any one particular incident or event that triggered this and as for how long its been going on is open to debate. If you asked me you would get a completely different answer than if you asked her...
I guess I tend to notice more major issues in our relationship whereas the little things all add up for her.

Was just looking to offer a bit of encouragement, in that if this has been going on for a while, she's still hanging round (ok, maybe she has the little one in mind too), but maybe she is wanting it to change too, and is keen to stick around for a bit to see if it does.

In fact better than that...just get a mate (male or female) to go for a massage and then scream blue murder that he touched them up and file a complaint with the police. (to be withdrawn later).

That should take the wind out of his sails for a few days.

See - guys can be just as cunning and evil as women!

I don't think you should. Why blame it all on him? She is part of it.
Just stay diplomatic.

"and he told me he was scared because mummy keeps getting mad at daddy.
This has happened a few times lately that he has started wetting himself or the bed at night and this was never a problem before.
Things like this make me so mad then. I hate to see him suffering like this and unfortunately I can only blame her for making this situation, whether or not it is true. She won't even attempt the little things, the habits that our son knew and enjoyed just to please him."

Dear DMW,

I think you recieved a lot of advice here...not much to add BUT

The things you said about your son though rang a bell with me...
If she is different to him as well, not as loving, as patient etc...she might be suffering serious depression and may be acting irrationally because of it...
I know when people suffer from depression they tend to blame something/somebody for everything and act like they are not themselves.
So is she acting different ?
Ok she might be pissed at you but do you get the feeling that she is unhappy with *everything/-body* except maybe that other guy who seems to "understand" her right now?

If this is the case than she needs proffessional help a.s.a.p...
..just my .02

Wishing you strenght and wisdom to get thru this...
And give that boy of yours an extra hug from me...

@latecomer, to answer your question, yes, I've seen the jealousy thing work several times. Not that in the cases it was used specifically to make the other person jealous, but more that when the person being 'left' decided it was time to see other people, the 'leaver' had a change of mind when confronted with the possibility of really losing the 'leavee' (and no longer having the upper hand).

Johnny English, like that idea of sending a friend for a massage...
Also a good point about going for dinner afterwards.

I bet things will seem much better after the counseling on Monday. Good luck.

Last night didn't go too well for me. I went to training thinking a bit of exercise would do me good and take my mind off of things, but instead I ended up having quit half way through and broke down in tears.
After that I went to a friends house and proceeded to get drunk and smoke a pack of cigarettes.
When I got home I tried to talk with my (ex)girlfriend but it didn't go very well.
She kept telling me "its over and there was nothing to talk about".
I tried again to reaffirm that things can change and improve but she won't even listen.
Its difficult trying to still show her love and support in the hope of winning her back when inside of me there is so much anger and hatred now.
And I hate myself because of it. I am normally such a happy easy going person and now I'm becoming bitter and depressed.

Oh well at least you know its over and you can close that chapter of life for good, and look forward to a happier future, in a years time you will look back and wonder what the drama was and why you didnt get out sooner. Of course it will probably hurt for a while though. I recommend hooking up with some TTers for some rebound action. Try not to dwell on things too much and look forward to the future and always look on the bright side of life eh?

There is still Monday to go through...I have to see what comes from the counseling.

Perhaps trying to talk to her while drunk wasn't the smartest idea.

Aside from trying to talk to her last night, have you mentioned the counseling option yet?

Yeah, I know trying to talk to her while drunk wasn't a good idea. Seemed like a better idea at the time. She knows and is coming to the counseling on Monday and basically the conversation/arguement started with me asking her what she expects or wants to get out of the session.

DMW I know you are in a tough situation right now. But as I already mentioned I don't think there is anything you can do right now. Don't upset her and don't heat up the situation by getting into heavy discussions. She is pregnant and needs her peace. At least wait till the baby is born. Just learn to be patient. Also you should try to follow your instinct a little bit. Learn when to do what at the right time. Don't just listen to our advice.

Good morning to all of you!

It is obvious that this touches us all a lot. Not one of us hasn't had a bad experience in a relationship, I am sure of it. But still I do think that there isn't any wrong or right advise to give DMW. None of us know all the facts, we each have our own ideas about what he should do. At the end of the day, whichever outcome this takes for him, he will be the one facing the consequences, without us. We won't be able to do anything for him. Therefore
@DMW
I think you shouldn't follow any specific person's advise here on the forum but rather use everything said here to consult your own thoughts. I am getting worried that we might have a bad influence on you.

Good morning to all of you too.

I think it's a really tough time for you at the moment DMW and I really sympathise. things do look quite bleak you can't change that for the moment; so just try to relax a little and focus on your son this weekend, he'll appreciate the attention for sure...perhaps you can take him out on your own; it does seem that he is feeling the tension in the house right now. (can you even take him away overnight on Saturday somewhere?) then on Monday you have the counselling session, see what happens after this...am sure the way forward will be a lot clearer. the counselling will certainly help one way or another.

really wish you loads of luck.

DMW, even though this is a trying time for you, I'm sure things will work out - one way or the other.

I just wanted to give you some positive things to think about:

You've been together for more than 5 years, had happy times together. Even if she does not see it today, you're a man that can make her happy. You've proven this in years.

Even if the feelings she's got now about your relationship are over the top and due to hormones, there might be some underlying problems that would have influenced your relationship in the long run anyway. See it as a chance to realize what they are. Even if they might sound silly to you: if it's a problem for her, it's a problem for you. (when I was pregnant I got quite emotional about "the fact" that he didn't help a single bit solving the childcare problem and how was I going to finish my thesis, sobsobsob... in the end the drama I made made him realize that there was a problem, and hey, did it help).

Already the whole thing made you realize how much you care, which is good.
It appears to me that she just didn't see how much you cared, for whatever reasons. Getting an appointment with a counsellor is a good step to make her realize that you love her and that you will do a lot to save the relationship.

From what I've read, you're a wonderful husband. You love her and you fight for your relationship.

I wish you all the best.
kati

From what I have read - he ain't a husband which is part of the issue!

Maybe we should organise a special TT "surprise party" after the councilling session on Monday evening? Video interviews to get both sides of the story etc.

@ Johnny English. Thanks that actually got a smile out of me. One problem, she hates being on camera...

@JE: right. Read: "partner".

@Kati - I know exactly what you meant but I specialise in being a pedantic arse.

Well if things don't work out between us I will have a spare U2 ticket to sell...

*cue lots of people shouting "BIN HER NOW!"*

Aye, I thought the advice might change if people knew this.

I've got 2, ta. Was meant to be going with my ex (we do actually get on really well - amazingly) but now he's got 2 as well so I can now go with a *certain gentleman* instead WHEEEEEEE