Trying to save a relationship

A massage therapist. But she is also learning massage therapy as well so he is one of her teachers.

I can't say I've seen this behaviour from her before, so there isn't really a pattern. And if I go by what she has told me of her previous relationships it is also new for her.

@ DMW
Fair enough ... no chance you can join these massage classes late ... maybe if she sees you givin some other chic some handiwork it'll bring her to her senses a little quicker than normal ?

@parnell...sounds like good idea...

EDIT: Messed up the post, see the next one...

That's something I hadn't thought of, but if she was so keen to have a second child and "jumped" on him because "her eggs had jumped", maybe she was already pregnant by the other guy and wanted to trick you into thinking you were the father..

there is no disrespect meant on this, I don't know her or you and don't want to judge, but it is a thought.

Agree with Irish Lassie ... have known a woman who did the same not too long ago (not to me tho). Make sure u get a test no matter what. If she doesnt agree then scarper - you've been had.

@ irish_lassie, no I really don't think so. She only see this guy infrequently at courses and her due date matches up with our conception time. This much I know.

@ parnell


Excellent! But it might give her "not relationship" with her stupid massage therapist a desperate quality making her desperate to see him at other times as well if DMW would suddenly join in. So there's a slight risk involved.

He must just get her to wake up from Ringo's spell though. These massage therapists guys are truly unethical IMHO. She has a temporary loss of sanity and enjoys getting attention from this guy. The attention will be of some, work-related physical nature as well (you cannot learn to massage without touch) which could set her fantasy alight. Ringo might not even be aware of all of this (although I very much doubt it!). So all in all it's not surprising and I STILL think that she will loose interest in Ringo the moment she sees that he flirts with other women as well, i.e., that she is not the chosen one.

I do hope you're right, I think you're going through evough at the moment without something like that to arise.

I sincerely wish you the best of luck, I just wish your girlfriend would see how lucky she is, you obviously love her and are willing to fight for your relationship.

She can really count herself lucky to have a guy like you.

@ MB
Uhhh thanks ... I'm a minefield of mostly useless ideas ... here's two ways our man DMW can play it out

1. (I'm sure his pref) ... he can work with his missus , maybe learn a few new tricks and put Ringo to shame from all the , uh practicin they can do in their private time

2. She doesnt want him there - he says grand but Im goin nuts and I need somethin to relax so Im goin to a different massage class ... the realisation that her man is clickin with other chics will force her to make her mind up - she'll pressure Ringo ... chances are he'll be sick for a week or so (DMW you should still go to the class ... dont falter at the FIRST sign of sense entering her head... second sure but FIRST no) ... and then hopefully jackpot

At the very least you should have a pleasant experience where you get to meet members of the opposite sex ... which is exactly what you need right now to allay your feelings of neglect , loneliness and low self esteem... go get em tiger.

@parnell

You devil you! Ok, then it's agreed! DRW is gonna take up massage therapy as well. He can only gain from it. I think it's a grand idea!

I know its a little late, but I agree with Parnell. Her knowing the edge she has with the law, and knowing that you would go to any extreme to stay with your kids (not to mention that she could confuse it for undying love for her no matter what she does. Considering you don't...) She knows she's on top of this situation, she knows she has now the freedom to do whatever she wants and you'll stick around.
Let her know that you CAN walk away, let her get a taste of what its like to be on her own with the kids (Im pretty sure "Ringo" won't be hanging around too long) THEN and ONLY THEN will she see your kindness that she had mistaken for weakness and come running back to you. And thats when you tell her she's no longer needed, and you just want to see your kids.
IMHO

Oh yeah, and massage classes would never go to waste...

meh

ChemicalBurn got what I wanted to say ... you can try all the logic , talking , kindness and sympathy in the world but nothing works better than seeing a good thing walk out the door to bring an ass to her/his senses. You owe it to yourself and your son.

Basically, walk away from your son with pride, and save your chances for seeing him after this is settled, rather than have him taken away and she'll leave you with nothing.
I don't mean to be rude or put you down DMW, but the fact remains that regardless of what happens, so far you've already tolerated her "flirting" with another man for a year, The agony of living with the possibility of losing your children, and desperately trying to mending the relationship. Thats a little too much. Though I doubt things will work out for you two, but even if they do, I think you should be the one not to take her back. You deserve better.
Im sorry, but with all deu respect to you (though many have refrained from saying it, and Im sure many have wanted to, Im sorry that I have to) She's a bitch. She's forbidding you a family for fling.

@ CB
I don't think he should neccessarily cut her out for good ... although she has betrayed him and their child and needs to do a lot of work if she wants this to work out. But he should and must make that decision from a position of strength and not weakness. Your comment that she has mistaken his kindness for weakness rings true - he must make her see that it is not weakness.
He can accomplish all this in the massage class ... if what he truly wants is a reconciliation.

Way I see it is that if reconciliation does happen, he has already proven to her that he is willing to tolerate this sort of thing. Now I know there is someway he can work around it and prove himself to be in the position of power, but its not gonna be easy. Its gonna take a lot of self restraint and risk.
But best of luck to you man.
And if all else fails, you have a punching bag for you to let it all out waiting in that massage parlor

I have yet to meet a pregnant woman who is 'on top of the situation' and DMW is not being weak about this. He wants to be around to see the kids grow up and be there as a full time father. Nothing weak about that. If he is able to forgive her apparent infatuation with someone else, at a time when she was pregnant and vulnerable he can make it very clear he won't put up with it again.

@ NIM
Sorry but there are only two vulnerable persons right now in this equation ... those without power or choice - sorry if I upset your sisterhood but that is plain as day. The idea that hormones are an excuse is ridiculous - men would be still clubbing women over the head and raping them if that were tolerable. Perhaps that is to you.

Mrs. DMW has behaved extremely poorly for quite a while and as CB has pointed out DMW is not taking firm action ... he is taking a kicking and it's killing the poor guy. Being a martyr is not strength and it will not help anyone , least of all his children.

Imagine using the excuse, "Well, babe...I have this thing called testosterone..and..ummm because of this I can not help it if I sleep with another woman. This is a simple facet of being a male." I don't think any woman should have to put up with something like that, nor should a male accept that excuse from a woman, because she has hormone changes. The fact is many, many (most) women that are pregnant, simply do not cheat or flirt with someone.

No, but some do give their attention to others when things aren't dandy at home. Give her the benefit of the doubt that she hasn't done anything with the guy. She may just be confused and have an interest she doesn't know what to make of.

I'd laugh my tits off if every woman on TT was given 150mgs of test (approx equal to a guy's natch production) a week for an 8 week trial period ... use the hand like us poor fuckers have to ! Would make for a lot of happier guys tho !

She's been "confused" for a year now.
Shit, most (or many) women wouldn't even tolerate 10 mins of "confusion".

I think I might start using that one... "I was confused" sounds better than the usual "I was drunk", or "But baby! I thought it was you!!"

Except that's a stupid comparison to make, because she hasn't yet done any cheating.

@ IPJ
Correction ... she has not been caught yet ... quite a difference - but I genuinely hope you're right but as many (even women - shock) suggest there have to be doubts - giving someone the benefit of the doubt here when the stakes are so high - that's just ridiculous.

EDIT: Why ya'all have to do is see it as if DMW was your close personal friend - they're getting burned down by the behaviour of their partner , they love their children and their partner doesnt seem to give a shit. Add to that it's a guy - the law is stacked against him (equality legislation huh?) ... I've absolutely no doubt she'd cop herself on mighty quick if he could take her kids from her... and until he can demonstrate to her (and mean it) the consequences of her actions he is going down deeper into the hole. He's gotta move quickly ... even if that means getting out.

@ipj
Hopefully you are correct, but I would not be certain. She has already expressed doubts of being in a realtionship with her current boyfriend (father of one child and one to be soon), and he has doubts of her relationship with another man. Usually (I use this broadly, as there are many people who are irrationally jealous), the point where the spouse suspects something is after the affair has been well underway.

I would not give her any latitude because she is pregnant and acting flirtacious with others. I would give her latitude because that may be (and not definitely) the best thing for the children. So it is better to err by waiting than doing anything rash.

Mr p

There's your Million.

My 2¢
Hold fire until your counselling session on Monday.
Your gut feeling will tell you if there is any point.
Good luck DMW
And parnell some women just have a lot of testosterone anyway. You should start hanging around the right endocrinologist's office!

@parnell
Ok, so then he should just assume that she IS cheating and act on that. Brilliant.

@brokenm
I'm an optimist. I say give the benefit of the doubt at the start until there are obvious signs of something going on.

I was in a relationship for 10 years before I met my husband. Toward the end of it, we drifted apart. I had a different group of friends that included a professor. Sure, I found the guy interesting, but I'm fiercely loyal and would never cheat, no matter how poor things are at home. My bf, on the other hand, was convinced that I wanted to sleep with my professor, and I had absolutely no intention of it.

I know that women aren't all the crazy nutjobs that parnell wants to assume them to be. I say give her the benefit of the doubt and follow Johnny English's advice. He's the only one here who seems to be speaking from experience.

Here here.

Good luck DMW.

Absolutely, but like you said the law is against me and I don't want to jeopardize my chances of having as much contact with my kids as possible should things turn out badly.

Are you serious ... you can access the results to find out which chic has got the higher test scores ?
I've boned one or two in my time ... great fun indeed ... well at least I think they had high test ... very lean , athletic and etc etc. !

Just "another" angle for your already overwrought mind DMW:

It seems a bit terminal that she has fallen for her therapist (or whatever "massage therapy + massage therapy teaching" is).

Some of us on the board have been to therapy. People open and communicate with their therapists in quite profound ways.

WHY IS SHE NOT GETTING THIS CONNECTION WITH YOU?

Putting any pre-judgments I may have of your wife aside, you have to consider why she craves what she craves from this person. Why have you not given this to her? Can you ever?

You'll spot them by their 'tasches, bit o' laser and you'll be laughing

NOTE: sorry DMW for the off-thread banter

@ IPJ ...
Please ... there is a guy who's in fucking agony over this so let's not act like the proverbial bull in a china shop - I said that he needs to know the truth - he should not assume anything.

As to women being crazy , I believe most here think you qualify before most (maybe not me) ... but only on the board - so far on this thread there have been quite a few women who left behind the male/female bias and just saw someone who's taking a terrible kicking - Irish Lassie and Major Bummer came to mind. Other than "giving her the benefit of the doubt" I dont see you suggesting a solution at all for the poor hoor.

a good point mr mtv (damm i have to cogratulate you ). a real soul searcher.
and its a problem that affects alot of modern relationships. from my side i know sometimes you've got your head so full of problems that you sometimes forget that providing the food, paying the rent, making sure there are shoes on the feet isnt the end of the list of "husband/man" responsibilities. i guess we guys can be pretty dumb when it comes to noticing those subtle female signals demanding meaningful listening.

I don't have any advice, but it sounds like a terrible situation and I really feel for you.

I hope the counselling can help you both to find a way forwards.

my best wishes,
I.

@parnell - I did give a solution - for him to take JE's advice.

By the way, perhaps you don't remember, but a looong time back I told you that I thought you were one of the more reasonable people on the forum. Well, I realized shortly after I said that that I had actually mistaken you for Profundo. Just thought you should know that.

@ mtv, I don't know why she isn't getting this connection with me, but I don't think any relationship can provide for 100% of your needs. That's why we have a life outside of it as well. I think gideon pretty much summed it up with his post about peoples responsiblities in a relationship.

What I have seen occur with relationships is the vicious circle. You have major problems that you both want to discuss, but you end up arguing...you then feel dread everytime you are around them, and are only releaved when they are not around as you know you may be in another argument. This is the point for counseling. If you do it for a while, your disagreements can wait until this session and not occur continuously. If you feel dread when she is around, she feels it as well. Break the cycle and meet the counselor as you planned on Monday.

@DeadManWalking

Send you a PM earlier, just want to know whether you got it?

Yes I did. Thank you.

Some light relief on a heavy thread . . . but fapx5's link IS BRILLIANT.

Read the testimonials DMW.

Maybe later at home...

Maybe it is a heavy thread but it has really brought out the best from TT. There has been great advice and support from people that don't even know me and what you can't see on the thread is the amount of support, offers of help and stories from people who have had similar experiences. It means a lot to me at this time when everything else is so bleak.

Whether she cheated or not really makes no difference here. She has profound infatuation with this man, and has made it obvious to DMW. Which, to me is even more intolerable. The man obviously loves her, and she obviously did not even try to hide her infatuation, and is now discussing leaving him for this man.
A question which is probably not in place but can explain what I mean:

Would you rather have your S.O. sleep with someone else and think of you? or sleep with you and think of someone else?

Its a pleasure. Any time.

Dear all ... bad day ... chic who wrote me some kissy emails/ PMs has now written that she meant to send em to someone else. Am gutted. Would like to stab her kidneys out with a pick axe but Woodies DIY too far away ... wot a pisser. Am also pissed at meself cos of her leadin me on an' dat... must be her hormones...

You wish I sent you kissy emails/PMs!