How Germans are viewed in Europe

Its from 2000 but written by a German and worth reading:

BBC News: The Trouble with Germans

Good read. Britain is still the best. Don't let them fool you JE.

A good complement to the above is the current special issue of the Spiegel (mentioned in another thread) 'The Germans'. A good chunk of it is about how the Germans are seen abroad.

@MysteryMan: looking for that article you mentioned, where's the thread? Can't find it...

This is more interesting, as this is a German (Matt Frei) making the report. And he does not only go on about the old view that some people may have about Germans, but also the old views Germans have about Britain. Good read.

The whole of the Spiegel Special Issue is written by Germans also.

Excuse me..! Didnt anybody note the glaring gaps in this article..

For instance..

Statement..


Conclusion

Because (reasoning..)


This is not proof (or even an argument) that Germans no longer have the attributes accorded them in the initial statement above. If anything it is the opposite. Why.. Well the fact that Germans are now good Democrats because they have been told that they should be is simply evidence that they tend to still "do as they are told" [without question].

Germans are NOT democrats and do not truly believe in democracy.. If you want proof simply ask they Germans that you know (the "average" German) what democracy is and why it is good. While you are there ask them if the policies of the government in Germany vis-a-vis immiigrants is democratic. In particular why many people born here in Germany are denied the vote. Also ask why the government is not doing what it can to create a fair employment market in line with commonly held democratic ideals. I can guarantee you that they will flounder as 1. they probably have never thought about it and 2. Germany is not in practice democratiic and this contradicts the accepted (programmed) mantra that Germany is democratic.

Now while it is true that many people in other (nominally democratic) countries have never thought about it the governments in many of these countries are doing much to impose democratic ideals so that they affect the way people actually live.

@[email=hmmmm]hmmmm[/email]

My goodness.

Sooo, you are saying it's a no-win situation for the Germans? They can't do anything right in your eyes, ey? You are implying that they are a bunch of machines or something that are completely unable to think for themselves.

Question: How many Germans do you know? How many have you actually gotten to know a bit better?

Have you done this, Mr. Hmmmm? Have you done this in any other country for that matter? What do "average" people answer when faced with any political controversy? If you believe that the German "race" behaves differently to others, differently in a negative sense, does that not inherently imply that you yourself are a racist?


What would they answer in any other so-called democracy?

For sure, this is badly wrong, this is the reason for many foreigners refusing to take up the so-called "leitkultur". Why should they if they would never, ever be accepted as "Germans" even when being able to flaunt a German passport. Yes, they do speak in the media of "der Syrier mit deutschem Pass wurde festgenommen" (as an example). But once you have a German passport you are able to vote. At least. The laws have changed for the positive during the last few years. Kids born in Germany are given the choice upon their 18th birthday, either become German or xxxxx. So you see, things are changing here for the better in that respect.


Please give an example here.

Cow dung. Germany is as much a democracy as any other European country. And they didn't want to send any troops to Iraq either.. The German government actually listened to its people in this case, look at Britain, Italy and Spain in this respect.. but they are democracies in your eyes, right? The life of a person in Iraq is worth just as much as the life of a European.


Jeez. Great for them. Germany is not a perfect democracy, but it still is a democracy. Please get yourself informed a bit better and lay your facts on the table. It seems to me that you have only one purpose and that is to prove that Germany and the Germans are a bunch of machine-like undemocratic racist idiots.
How do you expect people with a sense of fairness and a scientific interest in politics to take your so-called arguments seriously? Sorry, but something needs to be said here. Please give proof of what you are sprouting here.
MB

Good debate. Can you please be nice to each other though? Both arguments are well-put and thought out.

@MTV

Okay, just for you Mr.Vicar. I'll be good. Don't think I was not being nice, either. But I would defend any other being in the same way when "facts" of this kind are being uttered.

good article I thought.

Q. Difference between a German and a shopping trolley?

A. A shopping trolley has a mind of its own.

Bring on those cliches...