A question about my next steps going forward. A little about me:
I am Canadian married to a German and working a 400/month job. I am health insured under my husband's name. I just started a pearl business: http://www.etsy.com/shop/heathersperlendesign and am curious what my next steps are.
At the moment, I don't have a Gewerbescheine, though we are getting one, and I haven't had any steady income. We are looking at getting a Gewerbescheine but unsure how to register for one and what the insurance implications are. We thought to perhaps get it under my husband's name so that I don't have to pay health insurance. Is there a way that I can apply for a Gewerbescheine and not pay the insurance? I read something briefly on here about KSV (Kuenstlersozialversicherung). Would this make me exempt from paying a monthly health insurance premium?
Also because I work p/t for 400 euros a month, would this make it all complicated from a taxstand point of view? Should I give up my 400 euros a month job for my business that hasn't yet taken off? I would rather not pay the 240- euros or so a month premium for health insurance for my business that hasn't taken aground yet, and also hesistant to give up my 400 euros/month job.
Thanks so much for any advice in advance!!
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Insurance and own biz but also working 400/month. - Germany
Can I do both?
with 400 Eur job per month you should already have your own health insurance - you can only be co-insured for free under your husband's insurance if your average income per month does not exceed 360 EUr/month. If they find out (thru tax note, for isntance) they'll back-charge you accordingly.
If you go/stay with public health insurance, all your income will be counted together for setting the premium of your own public health insurance. You should be aware of this - but you'll also have the option to go with private health insurance which may be cheaper (but you'll need to consider long-term effect of that, too, like if you guys plan to have children in the future).
KSK (Künstlersozialkasse): not sure if you and your work qualify for them. They do also charge you for health insurance, public pension, unemployment insurance etc but at very, very low rates when your income is low, too. But the process of being admitted is long and complicated. Some other Toytowner one put together what is required, I copied it into my files for my clients and put it here again for you to read, too. It is not from me and I have not varified if there were any changes recently, so take it cum granum salis...
If you go/stay with public health insurance, all your income will be counted together for setting the premium of your own public health insurance. You should be aware of this - but you'll also have the option to go with private health insurance which may be cheaper (but you'll need to consider long-term effect of that, too, like if you guys plan to have children in the future).
KSK (Künstlersozialkasse): not sure if you and your work qualify for them. They do also charge you for health insurance, public pension, unemployment insurance etc but at very, very low rates when your income is low, too. But the process of being admitted is long and complicated. Some other Toytowner one put together what is required, I copied it into my files for my clients and put it here again for you to read, too. It is not from me and I have not varified if there were any changes recently, so take it cum granum salis...
Kuenstlersozialkasse really is restricted to ppl earning their money
- creatively, i.e. as visual artists, journalists, writers, photographers, directors, designers etc.
- permanently, i.e. with a view to do this for most of their working lives
- independently. To give an example, in film production, directors and D.o.P.s, video artists and film musicians qualify, while editors do not as KSK thinks they only work under the supervision of directors, not independently.
The KSK form asks non-EU residents to include a residence permit so I suppose they will consider applications from anyone who permanently resides in Germany and is an artist or journalist.
Your operating profit / net earnings need to be in excess of 4800Euros p.a.
As proof of the artistic / journalistic nature of your work, you need to supply them with
- an art or journalism school diploma
- recent contracts with clients (signed less than 12 months ago)
- invoices to clients and bank statements confirming the income (payment slips from a newspaper will also do if you are a journalist)
- current PR material advertising your work
- awards, honors received for your work
- reproductions of your work (i.e. paintings), copies of published material, printouts of websites you designed etc.
- confirmation of membership of an artists' / writers' union
- other proof - i.e. confirmation of several clients that they commission your work as an artist, journalist, writer, director etc
Cheerio
- creatively, i.e. as visual artists, journalists, writers, photographers, directors, designers etc.
- permanently, i.e. with a view to do this for most of their working lives
- independently. To give an example, in film production, directors and D.o.P.s, video artists and film musicians qualify, while editors do not as KSK thinks they only work under the supervision of directors, not independently.
The KSK form asks non-EU residents to include a residence permit so I suppose they will consider applications from anyone who permanently resides in Germany and is an artist or journalist.
Your operating profit / net earnings need to be in excess of 4800Euros p.a.
As proof of the artistic / journalistic nature of your work, you need to supply them with
- an art or journalism school diploma
- recent contracts with clients (signed less than 12 months ago)
- invoices to clients and bank statements confirming the income (payment slips from a newspaper will also do if you are a journalist)
- current PR material advertising your work
- awards, honors received for your work
- reproductions of your work (i.e. paintings), copies of published material, printouts of websites you designed etc.
- confirmation of membership of an artists' / writers' union
- other proof - i.e. confirmation of several clients that they commission your work as an artist, journalist, writer, director etc
If you go/stay with public health insurance, all your income will be counted together for setting the premium of your own public health insurance.
Cheerio
Do you mean she will have to pay 15% (or whatever it is now) of the combined income?Cheerio
Or is it the higher the combined income the greater the percentage on her 400Euros?
In the first case it could end up being more than she earns!
It would be on all of it.
So 15% of whatever the partner earns plus her 400?
That would mean if the partner earns about 3000 then the whole 400 would disappear?
Seems a bit odd that.
That would mean if the partner earns about 3000 then the whole 400 would disappear?
Seems a bit odd that.
probably bad phrasing from my side...let me try to clarify:
if she earns more than 360 EUr per month she'll have to have her own public health insurance. Mindestbemessungsgrundlage (i.e. lowest possible income this can be computed on) is 840,00 EUR, so she would have to pay at least 125,16 EUR per month plus contributions for the long term nursing care insurance. Her husband's insurance premium remains unchanged, i.e. he pays just as much with her as without her, only now she has to pay additionally and seperately for her own income.
Since the lowest level is 840 EUR, she can earn of course more than 360 EUR and stay with the same amount of monthly premiums as state below, until she exceeds this limit. Actually, it could even happen that she is moved as a self-employed right from the beginning to the next higher bracket which assumes a min. income for "Existenzgründer" of EUR 1260 per month and charges EUR 187,74 per month...
With "income together" I did not mean husband and wife's income together but in her case all her combined income from whatever sources she derives it, be that 400 EUr job, selling pearls or capital gains from interest or whatever - all income combined is the yard stick for setting the insurance premium in public health insurnace. Hope that is clearer now.
Cheerio
if she earns more than 360 EUr per month she'll have to have her own public health insurance. Mindestbemessungsgrundlage (i.e. lowest possible income this can be computed on) is 840,00 EUR, so she would have to pay at least 125,16 EUR per month plus contributions for the long term nursing care insurance. Her husband's insurance premium remains unchanged, i.e. he pays just as much with her as without her, only now she has to pay additionally and seperately for her own income.
Since the lowest level is 840 EUR, she can earn of course more than 360 EUR and stay with the same amount of monthly premiums as state below, until she exceeds this limit. Actually, it could even happen that she is moved as a self-employed right from the beginning to the next higher bracket which assumes a min. income for "Existenzgründer" of EUR 1260 per month and charges EUR 187,74 per month...
With "income together" I did not mean husband and wife's income together but in her case all her combined income from whatever sources she derives it, be that 400 EUr job, selling pearls or capital gains from interest or whatever - all income combined is the yard stick for setting the insurance premium in public health insurnace. Hope that is clearer now.
Cheerio
That makes a lot more sense - knew I was missing somat. Thanks
Thanks Starshallow. Very useful information. At the very minimum it sounds like I would have to pay the 125€/month if I register for my own Gewerbescheine.
Probably the safest route to go then is to have the Gewerbescheine under my husband's name... My business is just starting and it sounds like I don't qualify for KSK. I never went to an art school and my profits aren't up to par yet. lol
Thanks again!
Probably the safest route to go then is to have the Gewerbescheine under my husband's name... My business is just starting and it sounds like I don't qualify for KSK. I never went to an art school and my profits aren't up to par yet. lol
Thanks again!
yep, that would have been my next recommendation anyway: that the business is registered under your husbands name and thus you can avoid the hassle. For liability reasons you guys could simply found or buy a so-called "Mini-GmbH", i.e. a Unternehemergesellschaft mit beschränkter Haftung, currently the cheapest way to incorporate under German law instead of taking out a Gewerbeschein on a natural person. Or a British Ltd would do just as well... up to you, but many interesting options thru this. For instance could you late be employed with a >401 EUR job thru the company and thus have a quite cheap solution, too, for having your own income AND affordable health insurance. Food for thought...
Cheerio
Cheerio
A mini-GmbH, this is a great idea. But please tell me, what does it mean that later I can be employed with a >401 Euro job through the company, resulting in my own income and affordable health insurance?
Thanks again.
Thanks again.
ok, this requires two answers:
1. Mini-Gmbh or, legally speaking an UG (mit eingeschränkter Haftung):
The first good thing about it is that you do neither need much money as founding capital (100 EUr or so are just fine) nor for the legal founding process. You can get a standard "charter" for a couple of EUR to download from "Formblitz" or similar institutions, just fill in the individual information and take it to a notary who again for really little money has to register it. Or you can go directly to FORATIS and buy one that has all been founded for 500-600 EUR so that you can start right away - in which case all you have to do is a transfer of the company into your name and keep with a notary for another 100-150 EUR. That way you have within a very short period of time a fully legsal German corporation and thus also a (small) protection of your personal capital in case the business flounders.
The law requires to put some part of the profits away to build up capital stock over the years so that you can eventually turn this into a "Real" GmbH, but otherwise you have the same rights and all like a true GmbH. When running any business, one should always try to put a corporation between yourself and your business for liablity and also for tax reasons...
2. >401 EUR job: it is a bit tricky for your husband, if the bussiness should be runs in his own name, to employ you with a MIDI-job. Possible, but with all kind of loopholes and problems with the authorities. If you run an UG, this is rather easy and you could, for instance, become the "director" (Geschäftsführer) with a monthly salary of, say, 420 EUR. That would be a so called MIDI job (all jobs between 401 and 800 EUR fall in this line) and the employer pays around 30% on top (in our example ) and this than covers Health insurance (with the BUndesknappschaft) AND public pension AND unemployment insurance etc. That way you would be in a far better situation than as a single selfemployed person.
Of course there are some downsides here, if you will: book keeping and accounting with an incorporation require a bit more work - but moderns software does that easily or, better, find right from the beginning a good tax advisor who will just do this for you for little money.
Cheerio
1. Mini-Gmbh or, legally speaking an UG (mit eingeschränkter Haftung):
The first good thing about it is that you do neither need much money as founding capital (100 EUr or so are just fine) nor for the legal founding process. You can get a standard "charter" for a couple of EUR to download from "Formblitz" or similar institutions, just fill in the individual information and take it to a notary who again for really little money has to register it. Or you can go directly to FORATIS and buy one that has all been founded for 500-600 EUR so that you can start right away - in which case all you have to do is a transfer of the company into your name and keep with a notary for another 100-150 EUR. That way you have within a very short period of time a fully legsal German corporation and thus also a (small) protection of your personal capital in case the business flounders.
The law requires to put some part of the profits away to build up capital stock over the years so that you can eventually turn this into a "Real" GmbH, but otherwise you have the same rights and all like a true GmbH. When running any business, one should always try to put a corporation between yourself and your business for liablity and also for tax reasons...
2. >401 EUR job: it is a bit tricky for your husband, if the bussiness should be runs in his own name, to employ you with a MIDI-job. Possible, but with all kind of loopholes and problems with the authorities. If you run an UG, this is rather easy and you could, for instance, become the "director" (Geschäftsführer) with a monthly salary of, say, 420 EUR. That would be a so called MIDI job (all jobs between 401 and 800 EUR fall in this line) and the employer pays around 30% on top (in our example ) and this than covers Health insurance (with the BUndesknappschaft) AND public pension AND unemployment insurance etc. That way you would be in a far better situation than as a single selfemployed person.
Of course there are some downsides here, if you will: book keeping and accounting with an incorporation require a bit more work - but moderns software does that easily or, better, find right from the beginning a good tax advisor who will just do this for you for little money.
Cheerio
Thank you so much Starshallow!!! We will sit down and see what and how this works for me. My husband was considering a GmbH for his being a self-employed electr.design engineer, but as of yet he hasn't done so. Interesting to find out about mini-GmbH and the advantages of saving on health insurance and contributions. Interesting. So many options, but we'll sit down. Thanks for your fine advice!
Starshollow, one other question please. If my husband registers the biz under his name (under the name of my business), does any income earned get added onto his current income? Or can he file taxes separately under the business name, separate from his own income?
Thank you very much in advance.
Thank you very much in advance.
that depends: if he just starts this "Gewerbe" as an individual with a"Gewerbeschein", he'll have to file taxes for this business but all profits will then automatically be added into his income tax declaration.
if the business is incorporated, that it is just the company which files taxes and thats that. taxable income for you or him would then only come into play when you take money out of the company as payments, compensation, salary or whatever...
Cheerio
if the business is incorporated, that it is just the company which files taxes and thats that. taxable income for you or him would then only come into play when you take money out of the company as payments, compensation, salary or whatever...
Cheerio
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