Hi! Our family is moving to Muenchen in January, 2010 and have not chosen an area in which to live. We have a son who is in 4th grade (no German language skills) but want to send him to Grundschule due to the high fees at International systems. We heard various things about Grundschulen and want some advice. Because he doesn't speak German, we need a school that offers transition classes.
Which area/district provides us with the best Grundschule (costs aside; we can factor that in later)?
Which Grundschulen are full-day?
Do afterschool care programs cost money?
When does afterschool care end? 5PM? 6PM?
How difficult is it to get into Gymnasium?
Can a child go to Hauptschule for a year and then transfer into Gymnasium in grade 6?
Thank you all so much for any help!
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Recommendation on area to live/Grundschulen - Munich
Our family is moving to Munich in 2010
Hi, all I can tell you is how it is here in Feldkirchen were we live.
It is very child friendly, meaning they do a lot to make sure the children are well taken care of even if the parents work.
There is care system from 6m I believe until 4th grade. As of 5th grade, I think here children are basically on their own. It costs but it is no very expensive, they get lunch, snack, and activities for about 200 EUR per month if they stay until 5 (they are open until 6 except on friday only until 5)
The school is very good, (grade school) I just took part on an evaluation and I have the same impression as other mothers. School times vary from day to day but I believe it ranges from 11:30 to 1:00.
I do not know if there us gymnasium here, I think they have to ride the bus for that, but to be honest since mine is on 1st grade I have not given that a lot of thought.
There are some foreigners (like us) but not too many.
They get extra German if needed (also free).
Good luck on your decision making.
It is very child friendly, meaning they do a lot to make sure the children are well taken care of even if the parents work.
There is care system from 6m I believe until 4th grade. As of 5th grade, I think here children are basically on their own. It costs but it is no very expensive, they get lunch, snack, and activities for about 200 EUR per month if they stay until 5 (they are open until 6 except on friday only until 5)
The school is very good, (grade school) I just took part on an evaluation and I have the same impression as other mothers. School times vary from day to day but I believe it ranges from 11:30 to 1:00.
I do not know if there us gymnasium here, I think they have to ride the bus for that, but to be honest since mine is on 1st grade I have not given that a lot of thought.
There are some foreigners (like us) but not too many.
They get extra German if needed (also free).
Good luck on your decision making.
Hi,
it's hard to answer your questions, but I can at least share my experiences.....
We moved to Munich from Sweden beginning of September last year. My kids started grade 1, 2, 7 and 8.
They had no previous German knowledge (ok, the second oldest had one year of German in his Swedish school, but that wasn't much....).
We chose to put them into the public school systems (of economical reasons but also since we don't plan to stay here forever and we wanted them to learn German (both language and culture))
It has been tough for the kids, especially the younger two. They went to a Grundschule with some kind of support for non-German children. They were in a normal class, but together with some of the other children they went to some special German lessons.
This wasn't very good. To start with, the "special German" teacher had no education in teaching German as a second language and being away from the normal class made it hard for the children to find friends there (they were somehow regarded to be outsiders by the other children).
However, after a year they were good enough in German to transfer to a normal class in another Grundschule (the one closest to were we live). I think they are ok now and have picked up some friends.
It's not likely that your son will learn German quick enough to be allowed to enter Gymnasium already in fifth grade (but it's not impossible).
He will probably have to go to a Haubtschule.
There is no (at least almost no) help for non-Germans in the Gymnasiums. In the Haubtschulen there are special "Übergangsklasse" that teach extra German and prepares for transfer to a normal klass.
The environment in the Haubtschule is not so good. There are not many German children going to the Haubtschule (it's probably easier to practice Turkish than German there) and the level of the teaching is really very low.
In the Haubtschule I know of, they don't even use books (due to economical reasons...)
Anyhow, my two older kids went to a Haubtschule the first year, and it was not all bad.
Our relocation agent said that we can not put the children in a Haubtschule: "They don't belong there, it's terrible..." and also the teachers there later on said that "this is not a good place for your children, they have to leave as soon as possible".
But, they found many friends (no German friends though...) and I think they were rather happy there. Also, meeting all those children from various backgrounds was a very good experience for them.
It is indeed possible to transfer from Haubtschule to a Gymnasium. You could also transfer to a Realschule and later transfer to the Gymnasium.
If you get good enough grades I think you are entitled to change to a Gymnasium. There are some very complicated and strict rules for this (I once read the German document describing this). But it's also a lot up to the headmaster of the Gymnasium you want to change to.
My son (the 7th grader) could transfer already after a little more than half a year to a Gymnasium. My Daughter (the 8th grader) stayed at the Haubtschule for one year and graduated.
She got the highest possible grades (1 in average) and has now transferred to a Gymnasium. (funny thing, she is not an exceptional student but was one of only ~30 students in the entire Munich to achieve this and was invited to a big celebration where she got a diploma from the Bavarian school minister :-)
Since the competition is not so tough in the Haubtschule it's not so difficult to get good grades even if your German isn't that good.
In the Gymnasium, my kids are still having problems with the German classes (of course, this is German for Germans), but except for this they are fine.
The rumour is that it is very hard to transfer from Haubtschule to Gymnasium. For many children this is true. Children that are directed to the Haubtschule because they are weak students and then get lessons on a very low level will constantly increase the gap to the kids at the Gymnasium and a transfer will be very hard. But for talented students that only spend a year in the Haubtschule to learn the language, it is not so difficult.
It's also possible to start at the Gymnasium as a "guest student". You go to all classes and make all tests, but you don't have to pass all formal tests to be entitled to continue at the Gymnasium. After a while you can change status to normal student.
There are some things you should be aware of:
- Everything depends a lot on the Headmaster of the schools you get in contact with. They are kings/queens and can be of very good help if they are nice or be terrible if they are not (unfortunately more common).
They headmaster of the Gymnasium we were in contact with was really very nice. We contacted him already when we arrived and agreed that our children could go to his gymnasium when their German was good enough.
And, unbelievable, when we contacted him again later he remembered everything (even where I work) and said that of course they are welcome to come to the gymnasium.
I advise you to contact the Gymnasium close to were you live early and make an appointment with the headmaster. If he knows of your situation he will likely make the transfer later on easier.
A problem is that many teachers/headmasters can/will not speak English. So if neither you nor your husband speeks German, I think everything will be very difficult.
Examples:
- the headmaster of the Haubtschule my kids went to (which has a lot of übergangsklassen) refuses to speak English.
- the teachers (and headmaster) in the Grundschule refuse to speak English. One of the teachers is the English teacher of that school, but says that she can only teach children and not speak to adults!
Disclaimer: we live within the city borders. The situation may be different in suburbs or villages outside Munich city (e.g. in Feldkirchen that was mentioned in a previous response).
I think you could get more precise answers if you could supply some more information, such:
- Does anyone in the family speak German
- Do you want to live within the city borders or in a suburb
- Do you want to live in a house or in an apartment
Finally, there is counseling available for voreign students:
http://www.muenchen.de/Rathaus/scu/bildber/internat/202053/index.html
Click on "Sprechzeiten der Mitarbeiterinnen und Mitarbeiter (mit Sprachkompetenzen)" and you will get a pdf file with names and telephone numbers.
I recommend you to contact Dr Florian Roth. He speaks English and can answer some of your questions.
He may be a bit hard to reach. You can also write an email to him and explain your situation and ask when you can call him.
Btw, when I was searching for schools I found an interesting alternative. It's in Holzkirchen which is rather far south of Munich, but with S-bahn going to the city. It's a very nice village close to the alps.
The school is a private "Ganztagsschule" (whole day school) with some subjects being taught in English. It's rather inexpensive to be a private school. Link: http://www.ganztagsschule.de/index.html
But, I never checked it up in detail since it was too far away from the city (actually too far away from Olympiazentrum which is the only place where my children could continue with figure skating (this really crapped up everything with our location finding....)).
Also, see to it that your son attends some team activities, like football (well soccer in american English). This will give him more opportunities to practice his German.
Summary;
after one year, everything (well almost) is fine, but I wouldn't recommend anyone else to try to put their children into the public German school system!
it's hard to answer your questions, but I can at least share my experiences.....
We moved to Munich from Sweden beginning of September last year. My kids started grade 1, 2, 7 and 8.
They had no previous German knowledge (ok, the second oldest had one year of German in his Swedish school, but that wasn't much....).
We chose to put them into the public school systems (of economical reasons but also since we don't plan to stay here forever and we wanted them to learn German (both language and culture))
It has been tough for the kids, especially the younger two. They went to a Grundschule with some kind of support for non-German children. They were in a normal class, but together with some of the other children they went to some special German lessons.
This wasn't very good. To start with, the "special German" teacher had no education in teaching German as a second language and being away from the normal class made it hard for the children to find friends there (they were somehow regarded to be outsiders by the other children).
However, after a year they were good enough in German to transfer to a normal class in another Grundschule (the one closest to were we live). I think they are ok now and have picked up some friends.
It's not likely that your son will learn German quick enough to be allowed to enter Gymnasium already in fifth grade (but it's not impossible).
He will probably have to go to a Haubtschule.
There is no (at least almost no) help for non-Germans in the Gymnasiums. In the Haubtschulen there are special "Übergangsklasse" that teach extra German and prepares for transfer to a normal klass.
The environment in the Haubtschule is not so good. There are not many German children going to the Haubtschule (it's probably easier to practice Turkish than German there) and the level of the teaching is really very low.
In the Haubtschule I know of, they don't even use books (due to economical reasons...)
Anyhow, my two older kids went to a Haubtschule the first year, and it was not all bad.
Our relocation agent said that we can not put the children in a Haubtschule: "They don't belong there, it's terrible..." and also the teachers there later on said that "this is not a good place for your children, they have to leave as soon as possible".
But, they found many friends (no German friends though...) and I think they were rather happy there. Also, meeting all those children from various backgrounds was a very good experience for them.
It is indeed possible to transfer from Haubtschule to a Gymnasium. You could also transfer to a Realschule and later transfer to the Gymnasium.
If you get good enough grades I think you are entitled to change to a Gymnasium. There are some very complicated and strict rules for this (I once read the German document describing this). But it's also a lot up to the headmaster of the Gymnasium you want to change to.
My son (the 7th grader) could transfer already after a little more than half a year to a Gymnasium. My Daughter (the 8th grader) stayed at the Haubtschule for one year and graduated.
She got the highest possible grades (1 in average) and has now transferred to a Gymnasium. (funny thing, she is not an exceptional student but was one of only ~30 students in the entire Munich to achieve this and was invited to a big celebration where she got a diploma from the Bavarian school minister :-)
Since the competition is not so tough in the Haubtschule it's not so difficult to get good grades even if your German isn't that good.
In the Gymnasium, my kids are still having problems with the German classes (of course, this is German for Germans), but except for this they are fine.
The rumour is that it is very hard to transfer from Haubtschule to Gymnasium. For many children this is true. Children that are directed to the Haubtschule because they are weak students and then get lessons on a very low level will constantly increase the gap to the kids at the Gymnasium and a transfer will be very hard. But for talented students that only spend a year in the Haubtschule to learn the language, it is not so difficult.
It's also possible to start at the Gymnasium as a "guest student". You go to all classes and make all tests, but you don't have to pass all formal tests to be entitled to continue at the Gymnasium. After a while you can change status to normal student.
There are some things you should be aware of:
- Everything depends a lot on the Headmaster of the schools you get in contact with. They are kings/queens and can be of very good help if they are nice or be terrible if they are not (unfortunately more common).
They headmaster of the Gymnasium we were in contact with was really very nice. We contacted him already when we arrived and agreed that our children could go to his gymnasium when their German was good enough.
And, unbelievable, when we contacted him again later he remembered everything (even where I work) and said that of course they are welcome to come to the gymnasium.
I advise you to contact the Gymnasium close to were you live early and make an appointment with the headmaster. If he knows of your situation he will likely make the transfer later on easier.
A problem is that many teachers/headmasters can/will not speak English. So if neither you nor your husband speeks German, I think everything will be very difficult.
Examples:
- the headmaster of the Haubtschule my kids went to (which has a lot of übergangsklassen) refuses to speak English.
- the teachers (and headmaster) in the Grundschule refuse to speak English. One of the teachers is the English teacher of that school, but says that she can only teach children and not speak to adults!
Disclaimer: we live within the city borders. The situation may be different in suburbs or villages outside Munich city (e.g. in Feldkirchen that was mentioned in a previous response).
I think you could get more precise answers if you could supply some more information, such:
- Does anyone in the family speak German
- Do you want to live within the city borders or in a suburb
- Do you want to live in a house or in an apartment
Finally, there is counseling available for voreign students:
http://www.muenchen.de/Rathaus/scu/bildber/internat/202053/index.html
Click on "Sprechzeiten der Mitarbeiterinnen und Mitarbeiter (mit Sprachkompetenzen)" and you will get a pdf file with names and telephone numbers.
I recommend you to contact Dr Florian Roth. He speaks English and can answer some of your questions.
He may be a bit hard to reach. You can also write an email to him and explain your situation and ask when you can call him.
Btw, when I was searching for schools I found an interesting alternative. It's in Holzkirchen which is rather far south of Munich, but with S-bahn going to the city. It's a very nice village close to the alps.
The school is a private "Ganztagsschule" (whole day school) with some subjects being taught in English. It's rather inexpensive to be a private school. Link: http://www.ganztagsschule.de/index.html
But, I never checked it up in detail since it was too far away from the city (actually too far away from Olympiazentrum which is the only place where my children could continue with figure skating (this really crapped up everything with our location finding....)).
Also, see to it that your son attends some team activities, like football (well soccer in american English). This will give him more opportunities to practice his German.
Summary;
after one year, everything (well almost) is fine, but I wouldn't recommend anyone else to try to put their children into the public German school system!
Oh, my. I didn't receive an alert that the post was responded to. Thank you both for your input. I'm such a novice.
Ana, I will look on the map for Feldkirchen. I will look into that schule. And sure, I understand that Gymnasium is a long ways way for you!
Johan, thank you for your "book"! that was also very very helpful. We actually spoke to Dr. Roth a few weeks ago. He helped as much as he could but couldn't give us particulars or recommendations until we chose our area for living. I will call him again tomorrow (incidentally, we reached him after only 1 call after his lunch break!!)
Also, I will look into that private school. How can it be so inexpensive when International schools at 10x?? I'm intrigued. Did you or someone you know how direct experience with it?
I probably should have stated "Realschule" instead of Hauptschule. I too had heard bad things. OK, I will keep referring to these replies as I make calls tomorrow. Wish us luck!
Ana, I will look on the map for Feldkirchen. I will look into that schule. And sure, I understand that Gymnasium is a long ways way for you!
Johan, thank you for your "book"! that was also very very helpful. We actually spoke to Dr. Roth a few weeks ago. He helped as much as he could but couldn't give us particulars or recommendations until we chose our area for living. I will call him again tomorrow (incidentally, we reached him after only 1 call after his lunch break!!)
Also, I will look into that private school. How can it be so inexpensive when International schools at 10x?? I'm intrigued. Did you or someone you know how direct experience with it?
I probably should have stated "Realschule" instead of Hauptschule. I too had heard bad things. OK, I will keep referring to these replies as I make calls tomorrow. Wish us luck!
And yes, I should also state: we are looking at living within downtown area (Haidhausen, Bogenhausen and around the perimeter) in a flat/apartment/ or if there are houses in those areas.
I don't know why the private school in Holzkirchen is so cheap. As I wrote, it was too far away from Munich to suit us so I didn't investigate more.
But the school is "staatlich anerkannt", which may mean that they get some contribution from the state which would explain the rather low cost.
Btw, embarrasing, I wrote Haubtschule instead of Hauptschule throughout my response. I should be able to spell this correctly after a year in Munich... :-)
Yes, I wrote a "book" because this has been a big part of my life the last year so I can't stop writing when I've started....
When I moved to Munich I did a lot of searches on TT, but couldn't find many post regarding putting children into the public school system, so I wanted to share my experiences.
Regarding Realschule. I'm not sure this will work for you. The Hauptschules are the only schools with support for non-german-speaking students. And for the Realschule you also need rather good grades (probably not as good as for Gymnasium, but it may still be hard for your son to succeed with this after only half a year).
There is one Realschule in Munich with some support for non-german children. It's the "Carl Von Linde Realschule", http://www.cvl.musin.de/cvl_page/index.html. But it's very popular and you need good grades to be admitted (my daughter got admitted but choose the Gymnasium instead).
Btw, for the Grundschule you don't have a free choice. You must go to the one closest to were you live. They may then send you to another Grundschule if they can not support non-german children. (this doesn't apply if you choose a private school though)
Good that got in contact with Dr Roth. However don't hope for too much help later on. He said the same thing to me (that he couldn't help until we knew where we would live). But when we knew this he only directed us to the closest schools and that was it.... However, we moved here when all schools start after summer vacation and he was of course very busy. Maybe he will have more time in January.
But the school is "staatlich anerkannt", which may mean that they get some contribution from the state which would explain the rather low cost.
Btw, embarrasing, I wrote Haubtschule instead of Hauptschule throughout my response. I should be able to spell this correctly after a year in Munich... :-)
Yes, I wrote a "book" because this has been a big part of my life the last year so I can't stop writing when I've started....
When I moved to Munich I did a lot of searches on TT, but couldn't find many post regarding putting children into the public school system, so I wanted to share my experiences.
Regarding Realschule. I'm not sure this will work for you. The Hauptschules are the only schools with support for non-german-speaking students. And for the Realschule you also need rather good grades (probably not as good as for Gymnasium, but it may still be hard for your son to succeed with this after only half a year).
There is one Realschule in Munich with some support for non-german children. It's the "Carl Von Linde Realschule", http://www.cvl.musin.de/cvl_page/index.html. But it's very popular and you need good grades to be admitted (my daughter got admitted but choose the Gymnasium instead).
Btw, for the Grundschule you don't have a free choice. You must go to the one closest to were you live. They may then send you to another Grundschule if they can not support non-german children. (this doesn't apply if you choose a private school though)
Good that got in contact with Dr Roth. However don't hope for too much help later on. He said the same thing to me (that he couldn't help until we knew where we would live). But when we knew this he only directed us to the closest schools and that was it.... However, we moved here when all schools start after summer vacation and he was of course very busy. Maybe he will have more time in January.
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