New transport minister ignites debate over car toll for autobahn - Germany

Transportation Minister Peter Ramsauer sparked a row over the introduction of road tolls in Germany on Thursday, flagging higher charges for car drivers then quickly backing off as the debate heated up.

Ramsauer, from Bavaria's conservative Christian Social Union (CSU), told daily Passauer Neue Presse that the federal budget could no longer pay the cost of building motorways and mooted road tolls for passenger cars, or PKW-Maut, as a solution.

"We want the road system to be more strongly financed by users," Ramsauer said. "The vehicle charge (on trucks) was a start. To reduce the dependence of the necessary capital spending on the federal budget, we want all options on the table and to be examined."

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The bit about users to bear a greater burden of the cost really grates.

Every single vehicle pays an astounding amount in tax, road tax, tax on fuel, tax on the tax on fuel etc etc etc and this money is just siphoned off by the government to spend on oneleggedlesbiandwarfoutreachcenters or whatever and this bellend says we have to pay more?

If all the tax paid on vehicles was used solely for road building/repair then they could tarmac over about 50% of the whole damn country.

Drivers are actually still pretty heavily subsidised, if you measure the true costs of motoring. That's not just filling in potholes; it stretches as far as the healthcare costs of treating asthma patients. And you can't even put a price on the environmental damage.

A motorway toll would work in Germany because drivers would be prepared to pay for the thrill of driving at high speeds. In the UK, the speed-limit difference between a motorway and an A-road is only 10mph, so a toll there would result in a lot of traffic displacement onto smaller roads.

If you are going to count negative side effects then you have to also count the positives.

Yes there is environmental damage but how much more wealth is created because we have cars and don't have to ride the horse to work.

You really think that Mr Average commuter gets a thrill out of driving down the autobahn every morning and evening? Not a chance.

Not sure. Checkout the rush of German registered vehicles driving through Bregenz to avoid the 2 EUR corridor vignette.

they could charge parking fees on A8 between Munich & Salzburg

I wouldn't mind if they had a Maut like Austria, as long as they had a petrol price to match or reduced other road taxes by the same amount. Then at least all the Dutch driving to Italy/Austria each Summer/Winter can pay their share of the upkeep, like we have to do when we drive in basically every other country in Europe.

If they're looking for ways to increase tax revenue, why don't they just legalise and tax weed? They'd make a crapload in tax revenue, and could also save money due to the police not having to waste time on stopping and searching people with long hair in the vague hope of finding half a spliff.
The best thing about legal weed would be that some uptight stuffy little jerks on TT could start a thread about how disgusting it is that some bars allow people to smoke dope, and how the presence of dope smoke in bars essentially makes them prisoners in their own homes because they can never go out to any bars. I'm sure it would be a very interesting thread. Then, they could also start a thread on how the reputation system is broken, because somebody gave them a negative vote, when it is clear that their viewpoint is the correct one. Hours of TT fun.

If you think that the above pointless rant has any bearing on the topic in question then you may have been overdoing the weed today and should put down the keyboard and go and do something else instead.

Trouble is, the amount of foreign cars on German autobahns is negligible, especially considering how much it costs to set up and maintain such a system. Unless foreign cars (on their own) generate enough revenue to support the infrastructure, you might as well just raise fuel taxes.

Let's say you want to raise 10 billion euros. If you raise the fuel taxes by that amount, your overhead is zero, because the system to collect these taxes is already in place. If you want to raise 10 billion euros using a toll system and it costs 1 billion euros to implement/run, you need to collect at least 1 billion from foreign drivers, or else the 'fair' system where foreigners have to pay as well will cost German taxpayers more than the 'unfair' system where only the locals pay.

This may be a good system for small countries with a great number of foreign cars passing through (like Austria), but for a country like Germany the 'make foreigners pay their fair share' aspect seems more like populist window-dressing. I suspect they're coming forward with this because focus groups found tolls to be more acceptable than additional fuel taxes, regardless of whether it makes financial sense or not.

Agreed..(sorry..) This place is already taxed to hell..

If they do this, and I think it's only a matter of time, it won't be like the Austrian tax. It'll be like the truck tax, ie you'll pay per km, all the hardware is already there.

So all the smaller Bundesstrassen will be for the poor, and the autobahns for the bmw's audi's and mercs. Just like they want it.

There are countries within the EU with higher car taxes than here (for example Denmark).
That has not slowed their economy.

Also, for who drives to work, the Pendlerpauschale can offset a good portion of the tax on fuel.

There is already a system in place that does exactly this ... called "tax on fuel" (Mineralölsteuer = 0.65 €/Liter)

Works quite well actually and no need for any fancy device you have to buy.

For your information Gorgo the cost of living in the Scandinavian countries are considerably higher than here in Germany hence the pay is also better not to mention the fact that in Scandinavia they didn't screw there citizens by switching to the Euro like Germany did. Remember Pay is half what it was in D Marks while the cost of practically everything here has doubled. also @ Small Town Boy. You obviously are not living in Germany or are just plain naive. Although the German highways are the best in the world I for one would't pay extra so I could drive as fast as I want. Most of the time it's a crap shoot if your on the highway if you're going to wind up in some 20KM traffic jam. What amazes me the most is that these overpaid politicians that are elected to office never seem to do much for the average citizen but are always looking for a way to steal more money from the working people here. Maybe they should consider a pay cut to help thins along.