Alice minimum contract, watch out! - Germany

If you are considering Alice DSL/Phone this post is important for you as an English speaker. Unless your German is very good and you read every page of every contract you sign, take note...

I did research and thought Alice was a month to month service, that is why I chose it. Because I was not sure how long I would need this for. Well I just tried canceling my service tonight and they told me i have a 2 year contract. I told them, uh...no i dont, thats the whole reason I went with Alice - because they are month to month. I would never have signed a 2 year contract because Im not sure how long I will be in Germany. Their response: its on page 6, its your fault for not reading it, tough luck.

Naturally now I am very pissed off. The contract was in German, and even so, my German GF and I reviewed it. But one small line stating a 24 month minimum was far too easy to overlook. I suggest you speak with a representative when signing up for Alice and make sure you are getting month to month service, they will try and sneak you into a contract without you knowing otherwise. And even after you talk to a rep, check page 6 under Vertragslaufzeit at the bottom of the page.

My option now is to write them a letter kindly asking to be removed from the contract, which I am sure they will promptly laugh at and decline. I am considering talking to some lawyer friends to see what the German law says about deceptive contracts, or signing contracts in another language. On top of that, I never SIGNED anything, they just started my service. So this "contract" doesnt even sound like a real contract to me. But I am no lawyer. I realize some contracts can be "signed" just by accepting it and moving forward with payment. All of this is very shady to me, I feel like I'm back home dealing with Verizon again. The only difference is: if you get loud enough with Verizon they will give you what you want. Here they still dont give a fuck.

Ok, I'm confused, because I'm an Alice user, and registering their service is extremely clear. It gives you the choice in very clear language upon signup. Obviously one needs some level of german, but.. I mean...

See here:

Who signs contracts without reading every page? Oh I see, you.

come on, who reads german contracts in their entirety? that's ridiculous. i mean i can just imagine.

if this service is not to your satisfaction on a tuesday and only a tuesday, then you have the right to do blah blah blah, but only if a) and b ) and c), except when d) has happened 3 days before. if d ) has happened 3 days before you are to call the hotline (€0.14/min) immediately. failure to do so could result in a penalty fee.

BUT failing to miss the contract length, which basically is the second thing you check after THE PRICE, especially when you have a german girl present to read for you, tells me you like her for the sex.

They probably just said, 'fuck the contract lets go to bed'. Then the morning after comes.

Imagine if people came into the room the next morning to remove a kidney or the likes... no way out of that one I tell you!

Alice would perhaps smile and take her cut like she always does.

I've heard that if you leave you flat they are not able to carry on charging you. Might be worth investigating.

when you have a mobile contract, you can get out of it if you leave the country. but i think that's it.

i think what you heard was related to if you move, and they don't have the infrastructure for their service in the building, then they can annul the contract. but i doubt that's even the case with DSL providers because that's done over the phone line. If it were a cable internet provider, like Kabel Deutschland, then that is definitely the case.

Another lesson learnt about contracts. Never sign what you haven't read in full. If the thing you're signing is too long, it's because its full of bull with hidden terms such as these. Did you read the motor vehicle act before you got your driving license? No, because then you'd know you didn't need a drivers license (in UK/USA/canada/australia anyway).

Although I cannot offer legal advice and do not suggest you do this....what I would do would be to stop/block payments after sending them a letter with recorded post which contains:

Dear blah,

I do not wish to contract with you and am unaware of any existing contractual obligations with you. However, in the event that such a contract did already exist, I would be happy and fully willing to continue any obligations I had excepted, including those of monetary exchange, until contract termination or completion,

upon proof of claim that such a contract between myself and [internet company] exists, and,

upon proof of claim that I have accepted and stood under such a contract with my signature, and,

upon proof of claim that a contract was not entered into by means of deception, and.

upon receiving such proof by way of recorded mail no longer than 10 days after the recorded receipt of this letter.

Failure to respond with such proof, or failing to provide complete proof herein noted, by return letter within the stated period, will result in an automatic default judgement and permanent and irrevocable estoppel by acquiescence to any contracts I have with you, barring the bringing of charges under any statute, act or regulation against myself.

Your Faithfully,

[you]

I just wrote that on the spot and modified the end bit from another notice, so don't take it as is, this is just a general "vibe".

Again this is not legal advice, it's just what I'd do.

:-)

Peace and love,
Laney

Only if they CAN"T provide the service in your new place. Otherwise, the contract is still valid.

Update - someone from TT was kind enough to offer their assistance in putting me in touch with a lawyer who is willing to help. I will keep you all posted on how this plays out.

For those troll types who are commenting that one should always read every line and every page of every contract they sign, I would like to draw your attention to exhibit A.

Exhibit A. - Original Post

This "contract" they claim I am bound to was actually a welcome letter that had the details of my service in it including my username, password, etc and 7 pages of terms and conditions, of which page 6 had a small paragraph stating the service was for a minimum of 24 months.

If I asked them to produce my signature on any document, they could not do so. So please spare me the lectures.

It's hardly trolling to suggest it's a good idea to read a contract or confirm terms that are not in your own language - or that the "but it's not my language" line is hardly a get-out. Some of the replies here seem helpful to someone in your situ. I'd say asking for help and whinging when people take time to give you it is more "trolling".

Anyway, one thing to bear in mind with alice that I heard from another TTer (who is happy with them) is that they will give you English language help if you want it. Someone will call you back in English if you want them to.

Not sure what kind of lawyer you got there, but I think contract law is not his forte.
Electronic signatures are valid in Germany, provided the signee is the person living at the given adress and the name matches his bank account. The fact that you didn't sign (per se) is no loophole. If you have clicked on "Submit" or "Accept" or whatever the button is after inputting the data and verifying the terms of contract, it constitutes a legal and binding contract. Because of the Fernabsatzgesetz you do have 14 days where you can cancel it, but I'm asuming you are well beyond that. So you do have a contract.

The loophole here would be to do an Abmeldung at the Rathaus, and say you are leaving for GB or US. Then, since they cannot provide their services there, they have to terminate the contract. (§ 314 BGB - P1)
Another loophole is to send a complaint letter saying the internet is very slow and stating that it doesn't reach the promised speed (the "bis zu" xxmbit/sek. is not valid anymore) and you are having big problems while surfing (and you do not have any viruses and use standard software and pc setup) and giving them 14 days to fix it. Then you can make the "ausserordentliche" Kündigung and hope for the best. (§ 314 BGB - P2)

In general, german law goes after the latin "pacta sunt servanda". Meaning contracts are binding. And you must have done something wrong since I also have the Alice contract, but the one that I can cancel anytime I want.

You should mention that these are long shots though. §313 and §314 P1 don't really apply because moves are a risk to be born by the customer. The ISP has no influence on where you decide to live.

$314 P2 is not that simple either, because you can't just make up a problem and then cancel the contract on that basis. Modern DSL connections are rate-adaptive, which means the speed is adjusted depending on the quality of the line when you first connect the modem, and the provider can see the current speed of your line. They may even send out a technician and bill you for the visit if the complaint turns out to be fictional.

They're not stupid either. If a customer tries to cancel, that's an important thing to know for customer service reps, which means there'll be a big red note in your customer file, and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out why mysterious performance problems are cropping up 2 weeks after a customer tried to cancel his account.

The contract might be valid from the moment you logged in into their network and accepted the terms. We are in the 21st century already, not all contracts need your inked signature.

And why do you get angry? People here are trying to help you and are giving you advises based on longer exposure to Germany and more experience. Just because it is not what you want to hear it does not mean it is not valid.