Divorce lawyers in Munich - recommendations

Anybody have any experience with divorce here in Germany?

If so, can you recommend any lawyers who speak English?

Advertisement links: Dr. Prymusala & Colleagues and Dr. Jung & O'Hara-Jung

Best way to go is the Embassy or Consulate. But if not I can highly recommend you RAe Dr. Rupprecht und Kollegen, Nördliche Auffahrtsallee 19, 80638 München, Phone: 089/159145-0. Very good lawyers and not too expensive. They all speak english (I guess).

Try the list of English-speaking lawyers in Munich.

Thanks, however she was hoping for a personal recommendation, if possible, instead of starting from scratch.

My lawyer was Antonio Campanella (Sendlinger Str. 13, 80331;
089 547191-0; kanzlei@ra-campanella.de). Hers was Jutta Bartling (Sonnenstrasse 32, 80331; 089-260 56 39). Mine was good and quite fair with me but hers did, I think, a better job. I was screwed royally by a pre-nup and certain other circumstances. Bartling is well-known for feminist stuff and specialises/d in domestic violence.

she should file in the US, not in germany!

see link

http://www.economist.com/displaystory.cfm?story_id=2709223

Click to view attachment

Hello TTers, after a long time out in the prairie. Some of you may remember me, I haven't posted that often...
Right now I am taking the plunge and getting divorced. I am in dire need of a good, internationallly experienced, divorce lawyer (preferrably American/German) here in Munich, who can advise my husband and me on anything and everything (we have three kids, property, you name it, we need advice on it!) I have checked the forum for past links etc, but if anybody has any current input I would greatly appreciate it. Just PM me anytime. Thanks for your help...

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Oh, man, I'm sorry. You're in for a hard time ahead. You have my sympathy. Divorce is hell.
I think most lawyers will refuse to represent you both - though it does sound like a reasonable way to avoid conflict. I'm not even sure it's allowed. On the other hand, your separate lawyers will usually try to instigate a War of the Roses type brawl over bullshit which you must try to hinder by dealing with your ex directly as much as possible.
Go to the US embassy for a list of lawyers. My divorce is too long ago now, and I wouldn't really recommend the lawyyer I used anyway.

Is this an amicable divorce? It seems so from the way you write it. If not, I can give you the name of my ex-wife's lawyer who made it possible for my ex- to completely ruin me and take all the money.

woof.

Thanks, Woof...it's been very amicable up until now, I just don't want to make any mistakes I might regret later and get everything down in black and white so that both worlds are happy...

Mad,

First things first. Where was the marriage entered into?

that graphic says divorce quick and cheap in Germany... what is the definition of quick and cheap?

Up until now, if you are in agreement with your spouse, everything is easy, quick, undirty and maybe cheap (I don' t know yet, for sure!!!)

That table cannot be correct. Divorce is very expensive in Germany. Ask a few divorcees who are still paying off their debts. Surely it's cheaper and easier to get divorced in the States.

This month's issue of Munich Found has an article on divorce in Germany. No suggestions of lawyer names, just the procedure one needs to go through.

Hi Toytown,

Does anyone know of any licensed California marriage/divorce lawyers rolling around Munich? I realize it's a rather unusual and specific request.

My husband and I are putting a pre-nup together. We have a good DE lawyer, but want to talk to a US (preferably CA) lawyer who can tell us how a US court would interpret the document. (Yes, it's already translated.)

Any name/numbers would be appreciated. We've already worked through many of the names on the US consulate website without much luck. Most of them, seem to us, to be Germans who speak English and maybe did an internship in the States but have yet to find one who has passed the bar and feels up to date. Oder...?

One of my friends who is a non-EU citizen but a German PR has some marital problems. Husband has decided to run off to Thailand to "marry" his mistress. He does not want a divorce as he does not want to pay child support. They have been married for 18 years and they have 3 children who are in school. My friend wants a divorce and has only about 3 months to file for one. However, hubby has been busy transferring money over to the mistress and nearly all is gone. The account is in his sole name. My friend was told that if hubby leaves Germany, she is unable to do anything anymore.

They are currently living with the German's mother. They have no property here.

She was told that she would need an Ausland divorce solicitor(?). Would anyone know of a good and efficient one?

Please do not make any unwanted or sarcastic comments here, this is a thread where real advice is really needed.

Thanks.

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If she has the guy's valid address in Thailand that the German court can deliver summons etc. to she won't have too much trouble. If he does not agree to a divorce they have to live at least 1 year apart to prove that the eheliche Gemeinschaft (connubial community) no longer exists and that there are insuperable differences. Where does the 3 months' thing come from?

Thanks sarabyrd. I have no idea where the 3 months thingy came from and neither does she.

1 year?? Oh dear, that's gonna be tough on her and the kids as they would have absolutely no money. Knowing Thai women (not all of them but the ones that steal other people's husband), the money will be all gone by then. She just wants him for the money, keeps asking him to buy her land, build a house and set up a bar in Phuket. They will never be successful there. He would not have any means to pay child support. He is 55, so I doubt he can find a job in TH.

If she can prove that the community already no longer exists she may be eligible for support pre-payments from the Jugendamt. The Jugendamt then turns around and tries for reimbursement from the guy. Sound like a real sweetheart, he does. Give me a couple hours to have dinner, do the ironing and have a bath and I'll research their site. What nationality is she?

Yeah, I met him and he seems like one of the typical sex old tourist loser that frequents TH to look for younger brides as their own kind don#t want them.

Apparently they met when he went to do charity work for the tsunami. That was 3 years ago but my friend just found out 6 months ago. My friend showed me a picture of the Thai girl and she is the most hideous creature (dark skinned, looks older than she actually is and has bad teeth) I have ever seen. I am not saying that just because she stole my friend's husband!

She is a Malaysian and her 3 children are all Germans born and raised here. I doubt she can prove that " If she can prove that the community already no longer exists she may be eligible for support pre-payments from the Jugendamt" as they still reside under the same roof, just not the same bed.

Thanks sarabyrd.

You may want to check out this guy: Juergen Rieck

I am NOT a lawyer, but this is what I have googled combined with some legal training. Consult a lawyer before you follow any advice here! There is a good site on German divorce on Wiki. If both partners agree that the marriage is not to be saved one year of separation is enough. After three years the marriage can be divorced against the dissenting partner's will. There is one item there that might apply to the current case:


Basically, you do not have to be separated for even one year if one partner provides reasons for "unacceptable hardship" such as abuse or wanting to include a third in the marriage (ménage à trois). That is not explicitly the case but surely close enough.
To dissolve the community while under one roof, the partners must sleep, eat and live as separately as possible. You said the guy has flown to Thailand while the wife lives with his parents - that's proof enough that he is not upholding the community.
Everything she needs to know about getting support from the Jugendamt is here.
I hope this has given her some help but she definitely will need a lawyer. Yorkshire Lad6 posted a good link to Prozeßkostenhilfe, legal aid for court procedures.

Thanks, I will pass the information along as she does not know how to use the internet.

He is still here though but is planning to "move" to TH within the next few months.

I will print everything out here and give it to her. Cheers!

Plastic, thanks for the recommendation. Any personal experience with them or know of anyone who has had experience with them?

Everyone keeps using the term "cheap" or "inexpensive" lawyers.
Those terms are relative.

Can you quote a good ball park figure? Especially in instances where both parties agree to a split.

Plus, this seems like a catch 22!

"In Germany Lawyers fees are ruled by the RVG, the Federal Rules on Lawyers Fees. The fees depend on the value in dispute, without significance to the amount of time.
In certain activities there is the possibility of an agreement about fees on a time basis or in a lump sum.

We are happy to cite the probable incurred costs in a non-binding discussion.

Because of professional and competitive law the offertory are not allowed to give legal advice without warrant of attorney and without charges.
Contingent fee is illegal in Germany, so this can not be agreed on."

http://www.rae-jung.de/com_honorar.html

Hi all, just adding on to this topic.

I haven't been on TT for a long time, because I moved back to the US - some people might remember me from Munich.

I just found out that my no-fault divorce is actually not really no fault.

In a Jerry-Springer-like episode, I called my husband (we are separated) at home in Jena. He didn't answer, and also didn't answer his cell. Then a few minutes later I got a call back from the home number - but a girl was on the phone with a baby crying in the background. She told me that my husband was in Munich on business. I then asked her who the baby was - and surprise! it's their baby. After a very difficult conversation I found out that they had been together about 6 months preceding our split early this year. She was very hostile (even though I've only called there once before) and have never made any "moves" to get my husband back, nor do I want to. As I'm sure you can imagine, there were a whole plethora of lies on all sides - he told her that we were already separated, etc.

At any rate, when I spoke to him some time later, he claimed that she was lying, of course.

I asked for a summary judgement divorce a few months ago in California (where I live). He signed all the papers and the divorce is going through right now. Of course I didn't have a lawyer (my mistake that I'll probably live to regret). He now has 2 kids from 2 different women (again, the Jerry Springer aspect), none of which are me (we had no kids and no shared property, but he owed me a lot of money - in writing).

Should I try to stop no-fault divorce proceedings? Any experience, recommendations? Your help is greatly appreciated - I'm obviously still in shock.

@km
I'm sure there are lots of people around who still remember you, myself included.

I'm sorry to hear that events have taken such a nasty turn. I have no practical advice to offer, I'm afraid. I'd just like to wish you good luck and hope that the coming year will bring you happier times and peace of mind.

K.

Thanks Kay.

I just called a lawyer in Munich and they told me that there are only "no- fault"divorces in Germany. Can anyone confirm this? Seems pretty ridiculous if someone ruins your life by cheating on you that you aren't entititled to a larger division of property or whatever.

Anyway, on one side I want to let it all go, but on the other side I definitely want to get the money back that I loaned him, and get some closure there. We'll see.

KM, I remember you, too! Sorry to hear about latest events...

It's true, under German divorce law the "fault"-concept does not exist. If you do not have any prenuptial agreement, then the "Zugewinn" (increase in wealth during the marriage) is split evenly. I.e. you get to keep whatever you had at the outset, and the joint increase in wealth is split. Doesn't matter who did what to cause the divorce, that's the law.

Having said that, I am not completely sure that German divorce law automatically applies in your case, since you no longer live in Germany.

Personally, I don't see why you are trying to stop the no-fault divorce. At the time you signed the papers, you didn't know about this other woman, it's only now in that the idea of him being with her hurts. Sort of heartbreak in hindsight. Other than the money issue, I think you'd be best off getting him out of your life ASAP and starting new. I'm not trying to be harsh here, I wish you good luck with it all.

Can't a lawyer handle the money issue separately?

If you cannot get the money back now, then atleast try to make sure that you get your share of the pension.
He should name you as the beneficiary and it should be irrevocable.

@ km
Personally I think ur ex husband should die.Slowly.

...but not until after she gets half his pension!!

Actually, this is what my sister did. He was military and she was the housewife, at home, with the two kids, didn't work. He cheated on her, she kicked him out, they got divorced. He declared bankruptcy and she went after his military pension and got half of it. Now he is married again (the the women he cheated on my sister with) and has a new baby and is cheating yet again. But, she will still get half his pension and the other wife (or wives) will have to be happy with a portion of the rest.

Go after the pension!!

one of my girlfriends was married to a Swiss man (doesn't really apply here but anyways) they divorced after they moved back to Canada, then he hopped back to Switzerland, not paying childsupport, and then tried to get joint custody... she went after his pension, and got it ( for the time they were married).

Go for it girl.

Well, my girlfriend didn't want to do that, but she had no choice, as he wouldn't pay is court agreeed child support. And then tried to restrict her move to Jamaica, I will see her next week, so I will fill you in more on it.

Getting your hands on the pension is really important. My parents were together for 20 years and during that time my dad worked for an oil company. He left my mum for a bimbo 3 years younger than me and he left the oil company at the same time. When he died last year, I got in touch with the oil company and now the pension is shared 50/50. My mum was a houswife / homebuilder with no other income and this has been her lifeline. Needless to say the bimbo is spitting nails, which makes the whole deal that much sweeter. To quote her "I never thought I'd have to work again when I met your father." I bet you didn't, sweetheart. I bet you didn't!!!

Just jump-starting this old topic. My wife has asked for a divorce after 15 years and I need to get a lawyer but not sure who I should use (not many recommendations in this thread). Also not sure if we should both go through a shared lawyer (someone mentioned that earlier). I heard about the 1 year thing but was hoping there was some way to get this divorce through as quickly as possible, is there a way this can be done...especially if both agree? I have a feeling money will be a fight because I don't feel I should pay more than child support since she has a house (given to her by her parents) and everything while I have nothing after having a large home and cars in America. So all my accumulated wealth I had was sold to come here, and now i have nothing.

Any help/advice is appreciated.

You really need a lawyer, not our well meant but non-expert help. If you did not have a pre-nup agreement your wife can claim half of whatever property/assets/gains accrued during the marriage under German law. My advice: Get a list of US law firms in Germany (from the Consulate), meaning US-based firms that have branch offices here, get in touch with their head of office and give him/her the details. US law firms in Germany cooperate closely with German law firms so you will get both aspects of the law. It won't necessarily be cheap but probably worth the investment in the long run. Most of all, ask the law firm which law should govern - US or German.

Sorry to hear that AA. I'm in a similar position and both my councillers have advised mediation. I am extreemly lucky that my company provides me with a councilling service though.

I'm in the position of having a wife who knows that the welfare of the kids is the most imprortant thing as we go through the separation and probable eventual divorce so we can communicate about things when it comes to organising the lives of out kids.

If you feel mediation could be helpful I can post the name of the company in Munich that I have been recommended. I am on holiday this week so it would not be until I get back and have a bit more time.

I am about to enter this forum of life (finally, after approx. 9 years of limbo/living separately) and as much as I don't want to mess up my ex, I feel she could maybe play hardball.

We discussed the details at great length (finally, this was long in coming, can you say "conflict avoidance"?) on a recent trip, and we are going for it. I am going to try the same lawyer route, as I think we are generally now of one accord.

(note: she inherited a big house when my then father-in-law passed away, this during our marriage (in fact now is still "during our marriage"). The deal is that I am happy supporting myself and I want all of the money to go to my two kids, 12 and 9.)

Does anyone think I am nuts and should have the big guns at the ready?

Here is the reason I have been told to try the mediation route. Lawyers are interested in their client. Only one side of the deal. They will advise you in your best interests. That may not be the best interests of the whole environment and could therefore create a worse environment that further damages the children at a time when they need protecting.

Given the number of us in this sort of postion perhaps we should organise a TT divored or getting divored night out and invite a whole load of lawyers and mediators along? I'm only half joking with this...

TT divorce night support group - why not?

@ Tomasino: Get together and write down what you both expect from the divorce procedure. If there are too many differences you should get your own lawyer. My ex and I shared a lawyer. We discussed all of the issues beforehand, the lawyer filed the claim, three months later I was no longer fettered to a Dementor.

I'd be up for meeting, if anything getting out would be nice. I still haven't done much for myself other than open a new bank account. I moved 1/2 my belongings here and will need to rent a van or something to move the rest (have a bike and 45" tv I need to move). I would like to do a shared lawyer but she is REALLY starting to stress about the kids. My son made a comment about coming here to stay with me and thats got her crazy now; "now you already have him taking your side..." I haven't done ANYTHING to cause any side-taking or even made a hint about them coming here. I told her already I think they should be with her since she is great with them, admittedly a better parent than i could be in this situation. I don't see how we could have a whole lot to argue over since I don't have anything but my car and childhood things, and my big tv

Again, any lawyer suggestions are appreciated. I found some support website online that has a german lawyer that volunteers answers to questions, I will go that route for the time being and see if I get some helpful advice there as well (will share anything enlightening).

Thanks again everyone.

Try to explain to her that there are no sides. If there are, she has created them. And she should stop using the kids for her means because she is.

Just read this! Actually a damn good idea there DD, may be worth thinking about. A quiet bar or someones living room and talk about the various pitfalls awaiting one.!

T'was my idea but someone always gets the credit for my good ones.

How many in this position do we have in/near Munich? Count me as one.

me as 2.

I´m number 3. (Sorry PAS my bad)

Any concrete personal recommendations for international divorce cases? Has anyone tried the advertised lawyers (Dr. Prymusala and Colleagues)?