Bush senior to meet Kohl and Gorby in Berlin - Germany

Former US President George H.W. Bush will join ex Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev and former German Chancellor Helmut Kohl ahead of celebrations in Berlin for the 20th anniversary of the fall of the Berlin Wall.

The event featuring three of the most influential leaders at the time will take place on October 31 under the motto: "The Fall of the Wall and Reunification - the Victory of Freedom."

The Konrad Adenauer Foundation, which is affiliated with Chancellor Angela Merkel's conservative Christian Democrats, announced the Cold War era reunion on Wednesday.

Merkel and German President Horst Köhler will also attend.

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This is great! I think the Reunification and the fall of the Berlin Wall is one of the most important historical event of the modern century. Stalinism as of Maoism, as of Islamism are brutal ideologies, that need to be defeated, for the sake of justice and real peace. I was shocked to discover that some of my West German and migrant friends, selfishly criticized such Reunification. They were moaning about how they had to pay higher taxes to subsidize East Germany's development and speak so condescendingly of East Germans as if they are not really Germans! I put forward this question to these selfish people, which they could not reply to: "What if was you who had suffered such long years, as the East Germans, so savagely under Stalinism?!"

First of all I agree with your first observation.

However, Stalinism is not generally considered an ideology as Stalin himself was a follower of Lenin. Also the Stalinist method of government was repudiated by Krushchev in 1953 and effectively was condemned to history at this time.

Another thing, Islam is a religion, not an ideology. It teaches peace and, incidentally, the word directly translates as "peace". Unfortunately, as with every religion (Christian included as witnessed during the Crusades) have radical elements which should be, as you put it, "be defeated".

Also, I would like to counter the view you put forward about (West) Germans and relay the view of a professional German friend of mine. Her view is that the handling of the situation since the collapse of Communism has been unfair on the (former) West Germans.

The argument goes that, for their entire life, West Germans paid for pensions and health insurance (the East Germans paid signifcantly less) and that now, following reunification, the state payouts are the same irrespective of where you live. This means that a German pensioner in, for example, Leipzig has a significantly better standard of living than those living in the former West as the cost of living there is lower.

They also question the continued support through the levying of a special tax after such a long time. They question why, after so long, the government have not been able to better equalise the situation and whether this is now just "another" tax that fills the German Government pockets.

Many Germans, across the entire country, question whether the country has been damaged by the reunification.

I'm sure others on this forum will add to, support, or vehemently disagree with my comments, but I felt I had to contribute to this one.

Ronald Reagan would certainly laugh and smile a lot at this renuion if he were still with us. I just wish the Iron Lady, Margaret Thatcher, was well enough to attend. What a memorable night that was!!

Oh goodie! A reunion of a bunch of losers who aren't in charge of anything anymore! How exiting.

I appreciate lamonita's balanced views.

Lamontia, thanks for the views; I love democratic debates!
You said "However, Stalinism is not generally considered an ideology as Stalin himself was a follower of Lenin. Also the Stalinist method of government was repudiated by Krushchev in 1953 and effectively was condemned to history at this time."
Stalinism did become an ideology, a fascsit one at that, since Stalin diverted from Leninist principles and constructed an elitist and extremely violent twisted form of Marxism. Kruschev might have repudiated some Stalinist method, but not all, especially in fascist type and rule, of Govt.
You said "Another thing, Islam is a religion, not an ideology. It teaches peace and, incidentally, the word directly translates as "peace". Unfortunately, as with every religion (Christian included as witnessed during the Crusades) have radical elements which should be, as you put it, "be defeated"."
Islamism (i.e Islam as a political tool to gain or sustain power) as espoused by fanatical and terrorists Muslims, was originally constructed by what I suspect, the Muslim Brotherhood, as based in Al-Azhar Univ, in Egypt, within Muslim intelligentsia, and then furthered on, by Al-Qaeda, and now with strategic alliance with the Iranian Mullah regime (thus I am not against Islam but Islamism). To construct a homogenously Dark Age racist, sexist and fascist Arabic-style/led Islamic Empire, from East to West. This include the enforced veiling on women/girls and the dominance of such Arabic-style Sharia laws, over modern and secular identities and laws.
Thus such Islamism ideology, have enforced an Islam as a religion of war and violence rather than religion of justice and love. And that is among the main difference with Christianity and the mostly progressive Western civilization, or with any other religion, which has seen also reformation. Due to the Reformation in the 1500s, Christianity has progressed in to modernity, that saw the birth of Protestantism, the personalizing of religion back into private lives and the freedom towards diverse interpretation, and the reclamation of religion from the similar racist, fascist and sexist male-elitist Vatican (thus I am not against Catholicism in general but Vatican-style Catholicism as an ideology), for the poor and oppressed especially women/girls/gays, as intended by our Christ originally.
As to your comments on the unfairness of West Germans having to contribute to their tax to subsidize their fellow citizens' lives in East Germany, I still disagree. It's not about money, but about assisting each other as fellow citizens and within humanity's principles, the East Germans, who had suffered so much during the Stalinist occupation. It's not about money, but about justice and love. Besides, that's what true Christianity is about!

"Besides, that's what true Christianity is about!"
I dont recall anywhere does Christ demand justice although we all like to seek it as it applies to us. You are correct though that Christ is about love.
I think true Christianity is about believing in Christ as a savior though ... anything else, is human interjection.

Another class reunion..... Oh boy.....

Class == (former country leaders)

While both Gorbachev as well as Bush Sr. were positive about German reunification this can hardly be said about Thatcher and Mitterand. Thatcher and Kohl never were great friends.
I believe that we can all count ourselves lucky that these tumultous events that culminated in the collapse of the Soviet Union were resolved peacefully.

I well remember being sat in the lounge of my German outlaws with my wife and the whole family groaning and bitterly predicting that it would cost us all a lot of money personally and drive down the general standard of living across Germany.

Seems they were right.

I'm surprised that Kohl still has such a positive reputation, considering what a crook he is. Nixon would be a better crony than Bush sen. Then again, he's a friend of Cheney.

(full article in German)

@delvek: "... dont recall anywhere does Christ demand justice although we all like to seek it as it applies to us. You are correct though that Christ is about love.
I think true Christianity is about believing in Christ as a savior though ... anything else, is human interjection."
Excuse me, I suggest you read up both the Old Testament and the New Testament, and rationally at that! As Christ said something like "love your enemies" (Matthew 5.6:44) but he also said , "Do not think that I have come to bring peace, but a sword" (Matthew 10:34). Thus my interpretation, is that what the mighty cross symbolizes, both Truth/Justice and Love! And that is how our Christ saves the poor and oppressed humanity!

I'm born in 1970, so I remember the Iron Curtain and Cold War. My parents came from East Germany in the 50's and they remember when the wall went up and how the parents of my mother were still on the wrong side. We all thought that this division of Europe wouldn't end soon, probably not even in out life-time. We just hoped that things might relax a little. And I grew up with two military alliances watching each other suspiciously on the German-German border and we hoped that there wouldn't be another world war which would start with the use of tactical nukes in Germany.

Today I live in an unified Germany which is surrounded by allies and partners. Even with Russia we have a reasonable relationship instead of hostility.

Kohl certainly didn't achieve this alone, but his government had enough opportunities to mess things up. But he got the important decisions right when the opportunity presented itself and I'm not convinced that others would have done that well.

So from my point of view, he could've done pretty much anything at other times and I'd still consider him a great chancellor since he did his job well when it really mattered.

By the way, I have a similar opinion about Bush sr.

Kohl considered his word of honor to criminals (namely the guys shoveling money into the CDU treasury right, left and center well above the legal limit) more important than his oath of office to avert harm from the nation. He paid a heavy fine to avoid a public trial and is still convinced that he was above the law in the case.
Nothing can redeem him. The unification would have taken place under any other chancellor, Kohl just happened to be in office at the time.