Estate agent fees when not actually moving

We are currently sub-letting our place and our landlord is moving into a new place here in Munich.

We are hoping to stay in our place and take over our landlords contract. Our landlord has agreed, and the makler our Hausverwaltung told us to call has also agreed that we can have it.

However, the Makler originally said that he wants 1.5 times kalt rent as his makler fee which seems rather steep given that we are already in the apartment! He has n't had to find anybody or do any viewings. We know that there is some work involved for him but it seems ridiculous to have to pay so much.

We managed to get him down to 1 months kalt rent but some German colleagues of my wife are saying that he is just taking us for a ride because maklers are only allowed to charge if you ask them to find something for you?

So, does anyone know if it is normal to pay a makler in a situation like this? If we say we are not paying then he will prob just say fine and that he will get someone else that will have to pay full fees I guess.

Any ideas or comments are very welcome as we are dealing with it all right now!

It is UTTER UTTER Crap.

It happened to me before. I saw an advert for a flat that the people moving out had put up, I saw the flat, arranged everything and then when I moved in got a bill for makler fees. The makler turned out to be the sister of the owner of the building!

BUT, if you've got them down to 1 month then I'd probably bite the bullet and pay.

All maklers want shooting tbh!

Unless you have a contract with him specifically stating that you have to pay makler fees then tell him to fuck off.

I have a real problem with having to pay out that kind of money for some monkey to show you round a flat and oversee the signing of some standardised contract. Unfortunately I was forced to move during the summer of 2002 when housing was as rare as hen's bollocks and didn't have any choice.

i'm playing poker with two lawyers tonight will ask about that.

I am beginning to think that is what would be best. He can just give the place to someone else if we say no... I like the shooting idea!


Me too. I guess thats the way of it in popular places like this though.


That would be ace! Thanks very much.

Well said. Maklers are nothing more than parasitic scum who deserve to be wiped out!
Paid one when I moved here in 2001 as it seemed about the only way to find somewhere at the time, but there is no way I'd ever do it again.

Don't pay it. Especially if you have Rechtschutzversicherung. Let him try to sue you for it. If the judge decides for him, you're no worse off. Fighting him will cost you nothing, and most likely, he knows he'll lose and will shove off quietly. If you have a signed Mietvertrag, they can't get you out with a jackhammer anyway, so that's no worry.

When me and my ex were flat hunting a few years ago we were waiting and waiting for the makler to turn up. Then up screeches this bright red Ferarri with STA plates and a bloke with dodgy blond hair and cowboy boots gets out.

Before he even got near to us and introduced himself I'd decided not to take the flat out of intense dislike of the slimeball.

Cool - we have to meet the makler on Tuesday and the deposit needs done around then also.

I take it that the Makler invoices us after we have signed the Mietvertrag? I assume that as long as we sign nothing with the Makler himself that contracts him to search for us then we don't have to pay and can tell him to shove it?

Why do you have to meet the makler at all? I'm assuming you have the Mietvertrag already. If you have to go through him to get the Mietvertrag, then you're screwed and will probably have to sign his contract first promising to pay him before he'll hand it over. Too bad. I'd love to see a makler get screwed instead.

We are actually meeting the Hausverwaltung and no the Makler himself so perhaps we won't have signed anything at all. If he thinks he is getting a free holiday from me he can think again.

OK

One of my colleagues called Hausverwaltung Schmidt for me as they all believed that we shouldn’t have to pay. They told her that when the lanmdlord cancelled the contract they didn’t know there was someone ready to take over so they employed the makler and if they had known they would have contacted us directly and not used the idiot makler. Now they even employed him at all they say we have to pay. However, since he didn’t have to do anything for it he can only charge us a maximum of 1 months rent. This is annoying as he was making out that he Could charge us 2 months and was doing us a huge favour by reducing it. I should have wondered why he reduced it after so little discussion..
Gideon, if you wouldnt mind it owuld be v helpful if you could check with the poker playing lawyers.
Thanks!

I'd still stiff him then, if you can get your hands on that Mietvertrag without signing anything with him. It's not your contract. Why should you have to pay for a contract the Hausverwaltung made without you?
/grinding teeth and muttering about sharks../
PS: the law may be on his side, of course, (more teeth grinding) but stiff him anyway. We'll all cheer you on. Let him sweat for it at least.

Go easy on your teeth Kat...
I think we may be able to stiff him. Initially, our landlord called Hausverwaltung and said that he wanted to terminate and that he had someone for the place. If Hauseverwaltung then called a Makler then I think that is their problem.

However, Hausverwaltung are now saying that our landlord did not say that he had someone for the place and that is why they called the Makler. I think they are lying because our landlord is a good guy and has been great with every aspect of our rental. My wife and I have become friends with him and his wife and I highly doubt he is lying about what he said.

So I guess it is his word against the Hausverwaltung on that.

As you say, if we manage to get a signed Mietvertrag then we are bomb proof. A question though, do Mietvertrags ever have anything in them about paying Maklers? Or do we become bound in some way after the Makler has faxed us? I hope Gideon's lawyer friends have some good legal insights!

I've never seen one with that, aklthough there might be a clause about picking up any costs if ou leave early and/or without notice.


Did the Makler fax you the offer of a place or a confirmation? Did you have the confirmation for the palce before you got the fax?

No contract is valid unless both parties agree to it.
No contract can be changed unless both parties agree to all changes (including work contracts).

If you had the lease/offer before the Makler sent you anything, you received no services and can't be expected to pay. Any problems the Makler has have to be sorted out with whomever contracted the Makler. If the thief^H^H^H^H^HMakler sent you the fax first, you may be hosed.

woof.