Personal liability insurance

I was recently asked by a colleague whether I have liability insurance (Privathaftpflichtversicherung), and they were rather shocked that I didn't. To be honest, I've never heard of such a thing: insurance in case you (for example) hit someone on your bike or knock someone down the stairs.

In Canada, it is required to have liability insurance for you car, but I don't know of anyone who has insurance for normal day-to-day activities.

Is this just an example of how the different risks that people accept different cultures (for example, almost nobody wears a bike helmet in the city, but in Canada, most people do), or are there really more reasons you might need insurance here? Or have I been living under a rock and everyone in Canada has it too?

Germans are well into private liability insurance. I wouldn't buy it but my ex put me on his "husband and husband" policy.

If your kid accidently puts a football through a neighbours window, right thing to do imvho would be for you to put your hand in your pocket pay for the glass and some neighbour to put it in for a few quid.

Or the neighbour claim off their household policy.

But here you claim the money off the insurance comapyn for your personal liability --> increased costs for everybody.

Check out this thread on different types of German insurance. Plenty of references to the liability insurance. If your German's not up to snuff, plenty of peeps on here have bought policies...lots of examples on the threads. I had a mate help me navigate and bought HUK Coburg. Otherwise I would've rung up Holger Kretschmar, TT's insurance man.

You should also consider personal LEGAL insurance...some very good advice from our YL6:

HTH,
jml

Go and get it immediately. A mate of mine didnt have any and had an accident on his mountain bike last year when he collided with another cyclist. He is still paying the other persons hospital fees, his solicitor and a few other significant bills. I think so far it has cost him around €5,000.

I know someone got run over by a tram, and had to pay the hospital fees for the whiplash injuries of the tram passengers out of her own pocket because she didn't have Haftpflichtversicherung... So it's worth getting, it's not going to cost you very much.

Actually yeah, my companie's policy is that if I am in an accident and off sick they will sue the preson resposbile like in a car accident for to recoup my, well their loss of earnings.

It's not very expensive and very useful especially if you have kids. Our child (then very young) threw a wooden brick at a brand new G4 powerbook and wrecked it. It was all paid for. Also, my husband smashed a glass cabinet while playing billiards (stupid place to have one). That was paid for too.

I'm not exactly sure but I think we pay a couple of hundred euros/year.

i pay around €50 a year if not less for a single policy. stepped on bf's glasses, insurance paid for the replacement. bf put a foot through a friends tractor, his insurance paid for it. it is cheap and is one insurance you should have.

i also have rechtschutz/mietschutzversicherung and pay €110 a year w/bf included.

i have a german friend who is into this stuff who speaks perfect english so he helped me out. if anyone is interested, i could pass info along.

Yes, @elfenstar, please give us the details! I need to get this soon! Thanks!

can recommend this insurance agent:

Holger Kretzschmar
Tel.: 08141 404242
Fax.: 08141 404243
Mobil.: 0171 3320720
mailto:Holger.Kretzschmar@ruv.de

He used to (still does?) advertise on TT - and you can contact him in english (his wife is native speaker).

Also, some apartment / flat rental contracts REQUIRE that you have personal liabilty insurance . mine did.

Good cheap insurance indeed. Not just for kids or lousy pool playing husbands , but for pets too. If your dog or cat runs out into the street and causes an accident or they jump up on an old lady and cause her to fall and break a hip...etc.
In Germany, don't leave home without it.

Based on what everyone said, it sounds like something I should look into.

I'm curious, though. Would you also take out insurance back home? Is this just a "when in Rome" response, or is there something different in Germany that actually makes it more worthwhile?

I have never heard of this in Canada...not sure how we are covered in normal circumstances...but generally we only have health, household, auto and life insurance that I am aware of.

Maybe there is something I too am missing? No one I know has anything like Haftpflichtversicherung or the other (Rechtschutz).

i think private liability insurance in the u.s. is too damn expensive. think of all the lawsuits that go on. besides if you want to sue, usually the lawyers take on the case for "free", but take 50% of the winnings. that kind of legal system doesn't exist (yet) in d-land.


bad, blimeygirl, very bad. who do ya know then? read any article anywhere about insurance in germany and that is the #2 most important insurance after health insurance. most advisors won't recommend you get legal liability insurance, but haftpflicht is just too cheap to not go without. as an intern i HAD to have it. but it is not mandatory.

i have legal insurance too cause i had some serious probs with my old company and had that "i'm a foreinger, they'll fire me unjustly and i won't know what to do" paranoia so i signed up for a single policy at €62 a year.

In the states, it is usually included in you home ownership policy. You know, when someone uninvited comes to your door and falls over one of your kids toys, etc. and then they sue you. Here it is just a separate deal.

Sorry...to clarify...no one I know in Canada has it...that is what I was trying to get across to MartinH because he asked about outside of Germany.

Here in Munich we most definitely have Haftplicht...we were told that I am now covered as we are married...but they still have not sent any paperwork to confirm...ho hum.

Not sure about whether those type of 'accidents' are covered by all insurance policies back home. For example, my mother lives in an apartment and has household contents insurance but if anyone trips over her carpet or something...doubt there is coverage for that. I am not aware of what that insurance would be in Canada...but curious to know...

oh sorry, heh heh. i know in the states you hope someone does not break their foot on your lawn. they could sue and you would have to sue back to avoid paying cause if you did, your insurance went out the roof!

i remember reading this in focus awhile back:
SINGLES -->
Haftpflicht absolut notwendig
Hausrat sinnvoll
Unfall sinnvoll
Berufsunfähigkeit* absolut notwendig
Risiko-Leben überflüssig
Kapital-Leben evtl. als Geldanlage
Rechtsschutz weniger wichtig

MARRIED COUPLES
Haftpflicht absolut notwendig
Hausrat sinnvoll
Unfall sinnvoll
Berufsunfähigkeit* absolut notwendig
Risiko-Leben sinnvoll
Kapital-Leben evtl. als Geldanlage
Rechtsschutz weniger wichtig

FAMILIES WITH KIDS
Haftpflicht absolut notwendig
Hausrat sinnvoll
Unfall sinnvoll
Berufsunfähigkeit* absolut notwendig
Risiko-Leben absolut notwendig
Kapital-Leben evtl. als Geldanlage
Rechtsschutz weniger wichtig

I´m with the Versicherungs Kammer Bayern. I pay 83.29€ per year. I signed up directly through my bank. I think most banks have an agreement with an insurer and take care of the paperwork for you. Some landlords will not allow you to rent w/o this coverage.

Claiming on Haftpflichtversicherung policies is a popular German sport, especially among, ahem, younger people. I drop my mobile phone, you "admit" you accidentally pushed me, I claim on your insurance, and hey-presto I get a new mobile phone. 6 months later I need a new stereo, so you "accidentally" fall over it with a beer in your hand and wreck it, and I get a new stereo on your insurance.

Not that I'd encourage any criminal act of subterfuge, of course, but just so long as you don't make too many claims...

I've also known departing tenants use it for claiming "damage" in an apartment that was holding back their Kaution from repayment

I really did drop a fairly expensive computer monitor in an office a few years ago, and was almost trampled in the rush of Germans offering me their insurance to claim on as if they had done it...

YL6

BTW - the Versicherungskammer Bayern is one of the best...

VKB is part of the Sparkasse group and therefore operates o a not-for-much-profit basis. Cheaper than the blood sucker banks usually.

Hope the tram wasn't full?

She also had to pay to replace the sign she knocked down when her body went flying into it. No joke.

@ Jayjay, then all the tram passengers who maybe lightly brushed the pole when the tram braked all suddenly have multiple bruising and whiplash...

I've never really found them cheap (although their auto-insurance just got much cheaper), but I have found them very good, at least when it comes to claims...

YL6

Just be careful if you make too much claims (too much: might be as low as 2) the compan can cancel the contract. Don't know exactly, but there even might be something like a "blacklist" so you can get into trouble finding another insurance...

i just signed up with the versicherungskammer bayern over the internet: www.vkb.de. it was about € 71-

i never had this but got it last year. was about 50 euros for two people i think - but 100 euro for the dog!

That sounds out of order. In that case it's generally speaking free money for insurance companies.

Has anyone else went through Deutsche bank for this insurance. They quoted me 66 euro for 1 year for the standard insurance - Seems like a decent price - any comments??

between 55-70 euro is the going rate. i just got me insurance, but mine is from siemens private insurance and that costs about 50 euros, i think that this is not limited to siemens employees so u can get in touch
Tel: 089-636-83434 (werktags von 8.00 Uhr bis 19.00 Uhr)
Fax: 089-636-81966
E-mail: privatversicherungen@siemens.com

This is indeed true, and there is a blacklist which is shared by all the insurance companies.

Note there is a clause in most (all?) German insurance policies irrespective of the type of insurance, not obliging them to renew the insurance following a claim. I think there would have to be strong evidence of jiggery-pokery before the refused a renewal, however...

YL6

Does it matter who you go through? Is everyone going to pay up whenever there is a claim? The cheap ones seem attractive, but not if there's a lot of hassle when a claim comes in. Also, I noticed that the phone numbers for these insurance people are from out of town, is there anyone located in Munich that can be recommended? Or maybe it doesn't matter?

While all insurance cover has an element of legal obligation, the small print often sets up many exclusions. In my opinion you get what you pay for, including level and efficiency of service. I recently smashed a ceramic cooker hob, that was going to cost around €500 to replace. Reaching for my house content insurance policy I realised it was not covered. But I then remembered that at the time I had been recommended to take a cheaper "glass" insurance with another company. At the time I took out the policy (I still have the application form) ceramic hobs barely existed and were not mentioned on the application. On submitting my claim I was told that my hob was not covered, because I had not included this in my cover. NEW policies particularly show hobs as an add-on mine did not, and I was never told I could add it subsequently. Even after not making any claim on the policy they would not consider it a special case, so I immediately cancelled my policy and added glass (including hobs and fish tanks!) to my house contents. When I expalined why I was suddenly adding it the insurance companymade an ax-gratia payment to contribute to my loss of €300. That was well received, and is, for me, a good reason to go to a good company...

Click on the "advertisers" link at the top of this page for some suggestions for agents (not a recommendation from me however!)

YL6

I once worked for a well known insurers in Munich.
There were several sttaff who investigated seemingly dodgy claims and it was very common for someone who had claimed a large sum tice to get barred from future business.

Can anyone recommend an English speaking agent IN MUNICH? I have looked at the advertisers, but would prefer to get a referral from personal experience. Thanks!

I can recommend Helmut Schleif. he speaks perfect English and I've used him for all my insurance for the last 15 years.

Helmut Schleif
Leopoldstr. 108a
80802 München Telefon: (089) 340044

Not sure if the people who answer the phone speak English, but I'd be suprised if they don't

Just got quotes for insurance and they all sound bloody expensive to me, from Allianz.

Haftpflicht - 141,18
Hausrats - 61,07
wohnungsschutz - 49,50

Think i need to look around further.

agreed. i pay:

- Haftpflicht (Badische Allgemeine Versicherung): €45 a year
- Hausrat (...): €40 a year
- Wohnung + Rechtschutz (Deurag...): €110 a year. i think the Wohnung is €30 & the Rechschutz is €80. I'm considering giving up the Mieter/Wohnungschutz since it's only a studio apt. & i don't own it. but before i lived with my bf & he was covered too.
- Disability (Leipziger...): €50 a month

i have a friend who is with an independent group who did this for me & he seemed to get good deals.

Type Haftpflichtversicherung and Vergleich into google.

Without knowing the levels of cover (single, couple or family Haftpflicht, size of apartment, value of belongings in Hausrat, and cover for Wohnschutz) it's difficult to compare. JFYI, as a foreigner here, I'd strongly recommend a more comprehensive Rechtschutz (legal insurance) to cover family (inc. apartment rental), contract, automotive and employment legal matters. It's going to cost €200-300 but it's a valuable investment for peace of mind next time you need a legal beagle.

So, roughly speaking, what would typical levels of coverage be (for "more comprehensive Rechtsschutz"), or for the other types of insurance?

D

There are all manner of levels and possibilities. As far as Rechtschutz is concerned there are all different types, e.g.:
Householder (general stuff for home concerns, purchase contracts, neighbour disputes, etc
Employee (to fight your employer)
Vehicle (traffic violations, accidents, etc)
Home Rental (arguments with the landlord)
International (any or all of the above abroad)

and then cover can be limited to you, or extended to members of your family, and may include a deductible. Some insurance companies reduce costs by limiting you to use only their lawyers, or their chosen lawyer (not recommended), and set lower limits...

Thanks, YorkshireLad6. I'll look into those (particularly the bit about companies restricting your choice of lawyers...)

when i lived with bf in our 100 sqm apartment, my legal insurance covered us all, had a deductible of €150 per case & included renters rights & work right coverage, but w/out car b/c that was covered by the KfZ insurance my bf had through his family. it also included international claims for up to €250,000 worldwide. we paid €135 a year. i am now single, still have this & pay €110 a year (€80 legal, €30 renters rights)

yes, renters insurance is based on size of apartment. i only have 36sqm