A Tesco supermarket in Munich

Hi y'all

I propose that we try and start up a petition to get a Tescos, Morrisons, or Sainsbury's to Munich, all you British ex-pats will know what i mean. We definitely need one here!

I wrote to Tescos last year about this topic, i will try and dig out my letter and their response. But Suffice to say they said it was not something they were looking into.

I found out perhaps why. The German supermarket market is so 'cut' throat' apparrently that yields (i.e. profits) are not so high, do you mean there is competition in Germany? The other point being is that i heard (admittedly from one source) that there is a Law in Germany (suprise) that limits supermarkets to 800sq. metres so as not to oust the little guy shop around the corner...free market i say.



Before anybody mentions it, i know that there is a Walmart, V-Markt, and Kaufhof etc, i can only assume that they call themselves department stores or something...no clue

I for one believe that there is a market out there for excellent quality products, but more importantly excellent quality of choice! Anybody with me? Let's open it up for debate.

I'd have to disagree with you there Davek. And not just because I'm confrontational and disagree with people as a matter of course.

I don't see the need for the likes of Tesco's et al in Munich. If I wanna go big-shopping I have the choice of Walmart, Intermarche, HIT and a number of other big stores which cater for absolutely anything you could possibly need to buy and at reasonable prices. On the smaller scale you've got your Tenglemann's, Aldis, and a plethora of others. All the likes of Tescos would provide would be a couple of items which are normally difficult to find here (or overpriced) and that to me does not seem like sufficient justification for opening a whole store.

@ Keydeck

Perhaps you are correct and you have a strong argument for above claims.

But what you may or may not be aware of, is that it is not just purely about 'getting those items from home' It is about the whole choice thing and above all else the service and the availability of 20 cash desks, so one doesn't have to queue for more than 10 mins with my 4 items as i seemingly have to do at the moment at my local "super"market, i can't really call it a supermarket because there is nothing super either in size or service about it! It's also about service with a smile and the willingness to help.

Tend to agree with Keydeck here. It probably would be overpriced, and there are already plenty of places to get the day-to-day stuff.

Having said that, it'd be worth it just to see the Tesco "Value" Weißbier that they'd no doubt sell. Anyone tried the "Value" vodka that they sell in the Tesco in Prague?

Hi,
I've not tried the vodka out of a Hungarian Tesco but I have eaten their jam and ersatz Nutella and entirely pleasant it was too. There are quite a few Tesco stores in Hungary, some very close to the border so if you were spending the weekend in Vienna, it might be worth the extra trip.
The staff in my local Spar in Neuhausen are actually very friendly, helpful, nice and open extra tills if they see a queue. It also has a Vinzenzmurr in it and their staff are also very nice. In fact I've even seen the people who work there in the street and they have said hello there as well. I know that this is not the case everywhere but I also had a nice supermarket near me when I lived in Frankfurt. Perhaps it is just me though? I do go there quite a bit and am always nice to them too, the till girls even ask how the big plants are that I bought a few months ago are!
Anyway I don't really need a Tesco because I spend money like it is about to be banned as it is and it would just be a new black hole for my bank account...if one opened I'd be in it of course but look forward to going in one when I get back (mind you they aren't as good as they used to be - oh I am *such* an old bid..)
Katrina

I think your average Karstadt food hall (oder ist es Feinschmeckerparadies?) is about on the same level as the Tescos back home. I do miss Tescos though, the fresh pizzas were super.

i've debated this at length with my mates here...

that 800m2 limit is a good thing i reckon... (although i don't know that is actually a law here)...we are trying to retro-introduce it at home in ireland now because of the way all of these 'malls' have ruined the little suburban villagey type shops we have/had...

that is the reason there is no Ikea in ireland, they say it is uneconomical for them to open up anything less than a certain m2 store (useless trivia for you all)

i use Walmart once a month for juice/beer/cleaning chemicals and what-not and then pop in to the local hl or tanglemans for a nice bit of fresh stuff on the way home of an evening... suits me, as i only have one of those tiny icebox excuses for a freezer...

the one thing i do notice though is the massive range of pre-cooked meals etc that is available in the uk/ireland and not here... which might explain the relatively poor diet/nutritioin/fitness of a lot of people out there on the islands in comparison to here...

OK, everyone is also forgetting here, with Tesco's Sainsbury's etc, you can shop till what ever time you want, here it is such a stress to remember you have to go shopping almost as soon as you get home from work, on a normal day, or get up specially on Saturday to go shopping.

Those of you who have not had the Luxury of being able to go shopping when ever it suits you, Monday to Sunday, 24 hours during the week or 8am till 11pm at weekends, its wonderful, you don't have to fit your day in around ensuring that you have food in the apartment. Come to that, if you go to Aldi, etc too late, there is nothing left anyway !

good point pepper...

i had REAL problems getting up on saturdays and stumbling (still drunk) to the supermarket b4 12 or when ever last year...

but then, strangely, when they relaxed it back to 4 or whatever, i no longer felt the need to shop on a saturday and i haven't been in a food shop on a saturday in about 6 months...

i think i'm going 'local'...

i would love to seem some sort of UK store in munich. if some unemployed TTers have time of their hands, they could maybe think of starting an expat store http://www.expatshopping.com !!!

Okay, I'm going to do one of those "back in my day" old-people speeches now, so lookout.

When I first moved to Germany, stores were open until 6pm during the week with the exception of Thursday, when they were open until 8pm. Saturdays, stores closed at 2pm and those were only the big ones downtown. Your local stores closed at noon or 1pm if you were lucky. Once you get used to frantically shopping during these measly opening hours, the new ones of 8pm, Monday through Saturday seem more than generous.

Anyways, who does serious grocery shopping at 3am on a Tuesday?

I did before I came to munich...but now I dont need that.

They only reason I would want a tesco or a m&s here is cos the food quality (as previously mentioned in earlier thread) in places like tengleman is crap.

Dodgy veg, our of date milk - great

P

Erm, pepper, when I first lived here in 1995 stores had one late night a week and that was until 7pm and stayed open until 1pm on a Saturday. No-one starved.

Store opening times are different in Germany for a cruicial reason: fewer mothers work (see: photo).

And when mothers work, it is part-time (see xantippa).

Parents are a key market for food stores (they buy high value products regularly and are primarily a loyal market), they are the majority of consumers therefore determine the market trends. As the majority of schools close at 1pm at the latest and because less than half of all mothers have paid employment outside of the home (please feel free to check the above links or use EUROSTAT), stores which are open during the daytime make money (and you would be surprised at the queues).
Germany also does not have the overtime culture prelevant in the UK (and those that do work longer hours tend to use the facilities of main stations, airports and petrol stations which bridge the store opening time gap).
In fact there has been a move away from 24 hour opening in the UK as it proved to be a loss-leader, good for image but little return on investment.
Katrina
(who loves stats but I think that you might have guessed that already)

ooh! brilliant! a topic to my liking where I can once again (unsurprisingly) have a moan about over-regulation and trumpet the free market...

let's start with the obvious

who cares? in a proper free market, the shop will shut when its gross profit on sales is smaller than its cost of staying open (marginal cost = marginal revenue). not the government's or anyone else's business to interfere in that decision. if mr patel is satisfied with earning 3 quid an hour between 1am and 5am then by all means let him stay awake and open

I lived in earls court for quite a while and had a 24 hour tesco there. fantastic. and yes, I did shop at 2am on occasion.

now then, as to whether or not a tesco is viable in germany... there are issues both on the demand side and the supply side (cost mainly)

buying behaviour here is very different from the UK. people value different things. choice is not something the average german appears to care a lot for. price is. this is probably because the average aftertax earnings are lower here than in the UK (note: I said AFTER tax) and people are on tighter budgets. in germany the discount chains have a market share of 30%. QED. supermarkets in the UK earn most of their profit from non-food items (esp tesco) - and you need bigger stores for that than are usual here- and from premium foods (esp marks & spencer's food stores) - you need a consumer who is willing to shell out for that. this is partly why sainsbury's tried to adopt a more "premium" image and why shops like waitrose are omnipresent in higher-income places. the UK shopper values a nice environment and short queues. the german shopper wants cheap (only here can a slogan like "geiz ist geil" work in an ad for a retailer - it means "being a cheapo is cool" in case you are unfamiliar with the slang)

the cost structure for supermarkets is very different here as well. partly because the law restricts opening hours (so you basically have to pay for your fixed investment in shelves, IT, fridges, whatever in less hours), and partly because supermarket staff cost more (including employers NI and the likes) - perversely, after tax and employee NI they earn roughly what supermarket staff in the UK earn after tax and employee NI so the added cost goes straight to berlin, not to your friendly (?) checkout girl's pocket. incidentally, germany and mexico are the only countries in the world where Wal-Mart is consistently loss-making

You left this behind:

[img]http://www.toytowngermany.com/uploads/post-14-1070465728.jpg[/img]

Very true. And again, I ask, who shops at 3am? Probably not enough to make it worthwhile, certainly not in Germany. Shopping on occasion at that time doesn't justify being always open at that time. Okay, sure, if someone wants to open their shop at these hours, by all means, but I can hardly see it being a money-maker in Germany. I agree with Katrina that it's probably done in the UK simply for image rather than profit (of those specific stores during that time).

okay, i kinda agree on the free market thing...

but i think you'll find that it generally isn't Mr. Patel who serves you at 3am, it's his son or daughter who will be dis-inherited if they don't comply and work the shifts... (i was that soldier... and no my name isn't patel)

...or in the bigger scheme of things it isn't lord sainsbury that serves you but some lowest rung of the ladder worker who will loose their minimum wage job if they don't do it...

i think it is kinda cool that here every worker (okay, excepting essential services, tankstelle fellahs and Hauptbahnhof shops) gets to have sunday off and not have to worry about the boss intimidating them into doing 'graveyard' shifts...

in fact the people who are more likely to have to work weekends are mouse jockeys like us who can put a few hours in on the laptop over the weekend... nicht wahr?

That's lovely Jordigo but I you had actually read my post you would realise that it wouldn't actually matter if the market was deregulated or not seeing as the people from whom a German shopkeeper makes his money can and do shop during the day.
Thus many shops that could use the recent easing of store opening regulations do not choose to do so as they could not generate sufficient profit (i.e. a choice was available, customers did not choose to make use of it, the choice was wirthdrawn) to offset the additional costs. Yes the cost factor in Germany is different to in other countries but the desire to change from German standard shopping habits does not appear to exist (I will be interested to see how many stores retain the longer hours following the festive season).
Choice (and a free market) is one thing, meeting the needs of your market is another.
Katrina

A few months ago, they extended shopping hours to 6 pm on Saturdays in Hamburg. I can assure you the shoppers were there.

its 24 hrs on the reeperbahn.

they were there just because it was sensational!

They won´t buy more because the shop stays now open until 6pm

I could not possibly agree more. that means there is absolutely no need for a ladenschlussgesetz and it should be scrapped. then all stores will open only at those times when they feel it is appropriate / economical to do so (i.e. whenever shoppers turn up) and all will be well

my guess is that the equilibrium outcome in germany would be that in inner cities there will be some small corner shops run by yugoslavs or turks that are open around the clock, and that most large supermarkets are open most of the time but not necessarily always, and that most high street shops open until 7 or 8 ish 7 days a week or potentially shut a bit earlier on sundays

oops... that sounds almost like england...

PS: re
true. the difference is that in england, those poor fellahs work evenings and sundays and that in germany they are on the dole Q... I for one am not convinced that is a better outcome... (does sunday even matter to, say, a bangladeshi or a turk who are not christian anyway? I thought they cared more about fridays... perhaps that's just me being culturally insensitive) if they wanted to work on sundays, they should have become cab drivers or something... otherwise they need to be "protected" against actually having a job and being productive tax-paying members of the community...

culturally insensitive? no i don't think so... but i don't think we need to get all caught up about race/nationality/culture here...

to the point i was making, i think it is a very good thing that everybody can chill out, go to the park, play ball, drink beer on at least one day a week... when the kids are of school and the fairs/bars/nightclubs are all open... and it just happens to be sunday because of europe's 'christian heritage'... having a tuesday as your one day off a week is bugger all good if you can't play with your kids because they are in school...

I can't say whether or not people buy more. I can say that the stores were regularly crowded at 5:50 pm. Same at 7:50 for the few stores that opted to stay open until 8 on Saturdays.

If you stay open they will come.

tell michael jackson that.

Not everyone has Sundays off. Think of all the cafe and restaurant staff ...

If stores were to open on Sundays - the same would happen as happened in Britain - you'd have one or two senior members of staff on duty in rotation (i.e. they work one Sunday a month) and the rest of the staff is made up of young mothers who can leave the kids with Dad for the day and get out into the 'adult world' for a bit and of course students cos Sunday doesn't interfere with their lectures.

There's no absolute necessity for all stores to be open on Sundays. But I still think its about time they did away with the Ladenschlussgesetz and allow the stores to make their own decisions.

The small 'Geschenkeladen' in the center of town would make a fortune from the tourists in summer if they were to stay open a couple of hours later or open on Sundays.

operated by whom?

I rest my case

<queueing at the "garderobe" for my coat>

PS: the shops at Hauptbahnhof and edeka at the airport are always busy on sundays. I guess that's just the munich belgian contingent shopping. the germans wouldn't be interested since it is sunday

As an aside, the shops that are open late and all week at the Hauptbahnhof have a special dispensation to do so by the German government! go figure!

Or maybe they are interested in Shopping on a Sunday, that's why it's full, they are trying to secretly rebel!

Good debate though hey...keep it up!

Hmm.. How many of you can honestly say, they get up on Sunday and have all they need. I often have a problem that I end up with no milk by Sunday evening.

As already said, if the shops are open the people will come, maybe 24 hours is excessive, but it is nice to suddenly think, I need to shop and have no problems with this. Oh and by the way the UK are still keeping 24 hour schedule, they have only changed this in the small towns.

With the unemployment rate so high in Germany, surely it would not hurt to try a few Sunday openings ? it might actually help students etc. May others have to work on Sundays, Cafe's, Police, Nurses, etc !!

Oh. Will just stand on my soap box, can I say that large supermarkets will not the employment rate compared to the local stores, how many people get employed in a supermarket compared to the local store. The system in Germany is sexist, the woman should start thinking about getting out there and earning some money, not staying at home, did Germany not go through the 90's !!

well they don't seem to have much choice from a practical perspective since schools shut at 1 in the afternoon (perhaps that is why they don't finish their education until the age of 28??) and there is no such thing as child care. besides, most german women have been brainwashed to believe they are bad mothers if they do not spend every second with their offspring until they are at least 10 years old and their children will turn into menaces to society because of maternal neglect or something

I can honestly say I can't think of a Sunday on which I wasn't totally pissed off there were no stores open. There's alway something I didn't remember to get and I hate that feeling that comes around 3 pm on Saturdays in which I'm worried there's something I've forgotten. I'd rather Saturday were a day to decompress from the week and do things I want to do rather than things I have to do. Many times, we've just gone out to eat on Sunday because some important ingredient for the planned dinner wasn't purchased. Doesn't help to have these tiny ^$+(*%$ refridgerators and shoebox freezers. One can only buy so much at a time.

Even if they're not brainwashed, there's not a whole lot of choice for women from what I can see. I get the feeling that those who choose career over family are rather stigmatized in the workplace. And even if you're someone like me who would like to have children but just haven't yet found the right conditions to do so, there's this feeling that there must be something wrong with you for wanting to, I don't know, work and be successful in the meantime.

errr...i thought this debat was about quality/choice/UK food and not about opening hours?? i think some sort of uk store would be great, even if they did close early!

Well I feel the issue's not so much about quality/choice as it is about convenience. After all one could find just about anything they want in Munich, but they'd likely have to go to 6 or 10 different places to get all they need. I count more than 10 stores for lebensmittel within three blocks of my apartment but not one of them has all that I want/need nor convenient opening hours.

I'll admit I've been spoiled by the true meaning of supermarket where I can find all kinds of food, liquor, household products, hygiene and beauty products, delicacies, over-the-counter medication, prescription medication, AND a carpet steam-cleaner all in one place. Open till 10 pm seven days a week, and sometimes 24 hours.

Mighty hard to come down off of that kind of convenience. As it is here, one has to make 3 or 4 stops at different places, taking the time to find it and then wait in line to pay for it at each one. Too bad if you remembered to go out of your way to get the cumin for your Sunday recipe and further to pick up the tea that suits you on a bad weather afternoon, but forgot to make that extra stop to pick up toilet paper and cat food. (as I did today).

So I think the issue of opening hours is definitely a part of the argument. Would it really hurt the culture if a few people were working on Sunday?

The whole free market thing is a red herring. Regulation is not actually harmful to the free market, as long as the regulation is not one sided. Therefore things like the steel tariff are harmful to the free market and things like enforced closing hours are not. You can argue if you like that it screws the consumer and then maybe I would listen to you: but I don't see the problem in weighing up the rights of the consumer, the rights of the people who would end up working these extra hours and the businesses and finding some kind of compromise.

I am sure there are a few freaks out there who would campaign to remove all of the rules from the game of football, and that this measure would improve the game for everybody, but no right thinking individual would agree. The liberatarians out there would argue that the football teams actually have the interests of everbody in mind when they play the game, whereas all they would actually have in mind is scoring goals and winning games: just like companies. THe rules are there to protect the players.

I've been here a while now and my views on shopping have changed(that's allowed, I'm a woman!).
Frankfurt had a M&S, and the food hall was always busy but the rest of the shop did not do quite so well. It closed due to M&S deciding to concentrate on UK stores. Although Germans shopped there, the mutterings I heard were always in English.
"Metro", in north (i think) Munich was always open until 1800hrs on a Saturday when all others were closed, now they are open until 2000hrs on Saturdays until 20.12.03. Also in this industrial estate, is "Real", a very good and popular supermarket. They provide other services, dry cleaning, flowers, cobler and such. They have a good range of electrical goods and if you keep your eyes open, there are bargains to be had.
I previously moaned about all the things I couldn't buy here but to tell the truth, I can now find most things or substitutes. A few items remain on my shopping list such as sweets (and I can buy some of them around town) and biscuits(Tunnock"s will post them to you for if you miss your caramel wafers). Of course I load up my car ( from supermarket sweep) when I go home or get friends and relatives to risk the excess baggage charges but that's more of a home sickness than anything else(I took german sweets and stuff to Australia for Opa).
Therefore, I believe (was that the Batchelors?) that Sunday should remain a day of rest for those who can because it's nice to see families relaxing together, their children playing and knowing that they have parents(for one day at least). Someone mentioned that children would grow up to be a menace to society if mothers were not around, when I look at Britain today, I think there may be some truth in that.

Most bakers are open on Sunday mornings(they are allowed) and many have fridges with milk/butter/eggs, so at least there's no need for anyone to starve!

However, if Tesco's do open, give me a shout!

possibly. but not allowing people to work (i.e. open shops or work in them) is definitely one-sided. it is a nosy government deciding when I should be "resting" and when not.

whom are you trying to protect from what? all I see is the government protecting the unemployed from getting jobs.

note that the driving forces behing sunday closure are the unions (defending the "interests" of those who *have* jobs, not of the more than 4m unemployed) and the church(es) partly in a desperate attempt to safeguard (dropping) church attendance and partly out of dogmatic reasons ("and on the seventh day he rested" so so should you...) as someone else has pointed out (and as you can see for yourself at airport edeka and Hauptbahnhof and at the christkindlmarkt and at the furniture stores by odeonsplatz that have "open day" with "kein beratung, kein verkauf") if you open, they will come. even here

Jordingo, have you ever worked regularly on the weekends 8-12 hour shifts? Well I have, and my contract stated one weekend in 8. However, it never quite works out like that and I and many like me ended up being lucky to get one every 4 months off and that was often only a Saturday or a Sunday not both. Before anyone comments and states that it's my own fault as I had a contract to refer to, let me tell you, it doesn't work like that. pressure is applied by employers, therefore, it's a case of self preservation for most, especially those who wish to advance the career ladder.
Shop workers will be no different, they'll start off well and will enjoy the extra cash but it will eventually become part of the normal working week and like the UK where many workers no longer receive extra payment for weekend or shift work. Some contracts state 5 days/wk and the employer decides which 5, tough shit if he/she doesn't like you!
Family life is too precious, leave the poor Germans to enjoy the day off as this is one rule they have that I agree with.

granny, I have a long history of working 80 to 100 hour weeks (even in munich when the office here was still busy -i.e. before they decided to close it down- I used to normally go in at 8.30 and not leave until after 9 and go in for at least part of the saturday and/or sunday - and that is not counting the one or two days a week of getting up before 6am to get the first flight out to wherever and getting back until well after dinner time...) my last job in the UK involved leaving home at 6.30am and not getting back until after 9pm. there have been times where I worked *all* of the time, including holidays and weekends. so I kindof have relatively little patience for people who feel they would be "ueberfordert" when they do 10 (paid) ueberstunden a week or have to work on a sunday as opposed to being on unemployment benefit

i'm with you jordi.imho generally the sq heads are shirkers and aint used to hard graft...they get the gastarbeiters to do the shit jobs while sitting around on their fat arsches moaning about no work being available? the wirtschaftswunder my arse. long gone. economy is failing. dont you agree simpson?

is this too harsh?? no not really.

I really cannot see why a shop should not be able to choose to open when it likes. Protecting employees from evil companies who want them to work sunday? Absolute crap. This country has zillions of unemployed (yes that is a number) and I would prefer them to have to "sacrifice" their day of rest and work in a supermarket than have 7 days of fucking rest whilst I work all bloody week and get taxed 50%.

People would get fed up working sundays? Well, I get fed up having to go away on business, but thats tough. And no, I do not get overtime. Anyway, to stick with supermarkets, who do you think will have to work sundays? Yes, students and stuff, same as England. Don't like working sundays? Fired. Get someone new. Can't find someone new? Raise your wages. Damn simple. Gets too pricey? Don't open! Freedom and choice.
I reckon that religion may come into it (the draconian laws blocking opening times that is) in Germany, but there are enough non-christians here to run a shop or two on a sunday, after all, there are enough places where you can go for the weekly sunday torture of "coffee & cakes".

<round of applause>

PS I read this article in the sueddeutsche about this woman who wanted to change careers because she was sick of her job. her only problem: she works from 8am to 5pm so she has no time for a second occupation (the heart bleeds. I deduct this poor lady apparently needs 13 hours of sleep a day!) or as she says "bei meinem Bürojob von 8 bis 17 Uhr ist eine nebenberufliche Tätigkeit nicht leicht" I shit you not, the link can be found here http://www.sueddeutsche.de/jobkarriere/erf...ikel/523/22501/

Jordigo wrote:


Well that really sucks. In the UK I used to work the occasional weekend, or very long days (sometimes until 2-3am) when the occasion demanded it, but I've always been one of those people who works to live rather than one who lives to work. I don't want to spend my whole life doing nothing but working and then retire to "enjoy" life when I'm too old to do anything! That's one of the main reasons why I would never work in Canada or the US - the extreme working hours and the tiny holidays. I would rather have the lower salary over here and spend the shorter working weeks and nice long holiday breaks enjoying myself! Life is too short to spend in a cubicle.

I don't see anything in that article that could cause you to roll your well lubricated sense of righteous indignation out, Jordigo. The lady was looking for advice: her job bores her tits off, she can't afford to simply dump her job and start studying again and doesn't fancy trying to fit it in after work. I turned down an MBA for similar reasons (albeit my working week is a little longer than hers).

And you forgot to mention the reply:
"Das mag sogar sein, aber dafür endet der Arbeitstag auch nicht Schlag 17 Uhr."

I believe the english word for that condition is "laziness".

I mean "fit it in"??? you (and she) are seriously claiming she can't "fit in" a journalism course if she gets home at 6pm (being generous on the commute here)

jordigo,
live and let live
if she honestly belives in the bottom of her heart she can´t manage a journalism course next to her 8 hours job, ok.
if she wants to complain at the news paper, fine.
But maybe you could give her some advise for self -help books like
"time management - since I read it, I have always time!"
or something like this

I am not saying she can't fit it in: I am saying she can't imagine fitting it in. I am not one to judge her, as you are so quick to do. I don't know what she does for a living for example: if she is fucked out after a day on the job, then I don't think it would count as laziness. I decided not to do an MBA because I think with my workload and how much I must think every day I would have gone potty if I had attempted it.

my point (and honestly held view) is: if you don't want it badly enough to make some sacrifices (and as an aside: a couple of hours of study after an 8 hour working day harldy qualifies as sacrifice) then you don't really want it. which is fine. lazy people have a right to live as well (hey, as someone else has said: live and let live). but in that case they oughtn't complain that they are so miserably unhappy with their present life and their condition has no remedy because they are sooooooooooo overworked.

PS: a person with 15 hours of spare time a day does not need a time management course. they need a hobby. or two

I think you hold too many views Jordigo. I wouldn't advise you to get into counselling or anything: my first reaction to the article was that the girl was just looking for a bit of encouragement, you immediately took it as proof that the whole German nation are a pack of wasters. If you want proof of that come visit my office.

Jordingo, you are obviously a very clever, hard working person but not everyone has your talents. Relationships as well as work are very important and take time to develop and sustain, therefore, my argument remains in favour of Sunday closure (non essential services).Why? because when we have time to re-charge our batteries we produce better results. I don't need to tell you about the financial rewards due to a happy workforce. now do I?
Maybe you should take a little time to smell the roses!