The TV-L scale as it applies to post docs - Germany

How to figure out your salary after a PhD

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chembot
Hi all though I might start of a new thread in the general section,
I got a preliminary job offer for a post doc position in Jena which is pretty exciting! I ve been told it's on the TV-L scale. From my looking around this forum and the internet this seems to suggest a salary around 33k (before taxes) . (I have no kids and this is really my first proper job after my phd) Would that be a good estimate does anyone know? Is anyone else here doing a post doc as well? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Money is nt hugely important to me , feel like I'd be happy to have the opportunity but of course you need a certain amount to live on after all!!
fizzy
Hi,
First off, welcome!
I'm in the same category as you. Interpolating between someone I know who has zero experience and makes 3k (a phd student on the same scale) to someone who has 7 years and makes 3950. The experience is total research experience counted from the start of your PhD. The appropriate scale is TV-L 13 but there are several levels corresponding to 0 - 10 + years of experience.
I'd say around 3400-3500 /mo gross because you lucky ducks in the British Isles don't tend to spend eons in graduate school as we do. On the other hand, we get more money. I was totally shocked that spending a long time in grad school can lead to benefits!
Here, they don't spend time doing courses so the whole length of the PhD counts, as they don't take into account what people in other countries do as part of their graduate programmes. Being single, I'd say you'll keep about 55% of the gross...yeah, it hurts. If you're in E Germany you get to keep about 50 eur/mo more than us because of equalization payments. Also, when you come and go to register at the municipality, remember to declare no religion if you'd like to avoid the church tax. Best of luck!!!
chembot
Thanks that helps a lot. Did nt want to say yes to the offer without having a ball park estimate of what it might be! I started my pHD in 2003 and only graduated in 2009. I deferred my graduation by about 6 months. I wonder if I could maybe get away with claiming I had 6 years of experience? And I am in the east of germany all right but 45% tax. Wooah! I dont know what people at home are upset about!
llees
Make sure you find out exactly what the finance office needs to see from your previous institution before turning up here - I'm lower on the scale than I should be because the finance office refused to allow me the actual amount without some paperwork that simply does not exist outside Germany.
chembot
As far as I can glean, they need diplomas (degree certificate and PhD certificate). Do you mind me asking what they demanded of you? Thanks for your help
etudeohp
Just a quick calculation to know how much you will have per month on your bank account:
(35000/12)*0.55 = 1600 euros

It seems a little bit low for a postdoc... I do remember at Max Planck you could get a stipend tax free of 2100 euros (at the start). But of course from that you have to paid for your medical insurance (and pension...).

Any other post doctor on the forum?
llees
As far as I can glean, they need diplomas (degree certificate and PhD certificate). Do you mind me asking what they demanded of you? Thanks for your help
Diplomas all the way back - high school era certificates as well. I needed confirmation from the university where I studied that I was engaged in active research while enrolled as a PhD student, as though I got the thing from sitting on my ass eating chocolate. I had to do a series of medical tests (although since I'm hospital-based that might not apply to you) and there was a specific piece of paperwork that I don't remember the name of that is an exclusively German phenomenon that listed exactly what I was doing for my PhD project year by year and month by month. Hopefully for your sake that's a Bavarian-specific thing because it was an absolute nightmare to obtain. I had to covertly acquire someone else's (you're not supposed to see other people's) and tailor it to fit my project. Good luck!
chembot
Just a quick calculation to know how much you will have per month on your bank account:
(35000/12)*0.55 = 1600 euros
It's less than I was getting doing my pHD. but i think that the figure that llees mentioned was 3500 per month which is a bit better
fizzy
Hi Chembot, when I was offerred this job, I wasn't told what the salary would be, only that "You won't starve" and a day later a ballpark figure of 1800 after tax. I thought that was really rude, as in N America, salaries are part of the negotiation process. I agree the taxes are insane. It's a sickeningly family-oriented and social-service-oriented society so single, able-bodied people are taxed to the hilt. Note that the 45% tax I referred to includes actual tax as well as all other deductions. Health ins alone runs me about 300/mo, which is crazy!

Anyway, they were totally disorganized since they didn't tell me about all the documents I'd need beforehand. But here's what they wanted: Either original or certified copies (by a notary, do you have those in Ireland) of all degrees: bachelors - PhD, original birth certificate, as well as, to qualify you for experience, and the salary, letters from your previous institution(s) attesting that so-and-so was employed here with Dr. X as a research assistant from 200X-200Y (these letters can come later, by email even). If you actually have six years, then you'd be getting about 3950 here, not sure about over in the East. No documents from before university but I had to invent and then write down dates on some form of all the schools I attended from age 4 up (creepy isn't it). Hope that helps. You should ask before leaving for a list of what documents they specifically want. Thankfully, no medical tests were undertaken ... shiver...I"d have quit on the spot if that were the case. All in all, nothing too invasive, just annoying bits of bureaucracy.
llees
It's less than I was getting doing my pHD. but i think that the figure that llees mentioned was 3500 per month which is a bit better
That wasn't me, although I'm in that region. It still doesn't work out remotely like that with the obscene taxes, insurance and the rest and is variable month to month, sometimes by a couple of hundred euros. Also, some places run wages on a 13-month system so at the end of the year you end up with an extra salary payment.
LMB222
The 13th payment is a very nice addition to X-mas.

The entire table is here: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tarifvertrag_...#Verg.C3.BCtung

Tax calculator: https://service.allianz.de/fire_app/Intrane...n=steuerrechner -- take tax class I, "Anzahl der Gehälter pro Jahr" = 13, Bundesland = clear; Kirchensteuerpflichtig - if you belong to a church then Ja, rest leave default.

I have no idea why they asked you for all the diplomas, I just presented them my M.Sc. Must be a local thing.

BTW When getting annoyed at the level of taxes here remember what you get back - not sure you had dentist included in your health insurance. And in case you're American, it's good to know your health insurance will not be terminated, regardless of your blood pressure, diabetes or any other illness you may or will have.
tenngirl
I am also on the TVL, E-13 scale. I don't have a Ph.D. (yet...), so am really the lowest of the low on this scale. But, I got my payslip today and thought the percentages for the various subtractions (insurances, etc.) might be helpful. I have no idea if these are the same for others, but I assume that they would be... Basically, you get your gross salaray, they subtract all these insurances plus taxes, then you have the net amount that actually shows up in your bank account.

Krankenversicherung (Health insurance - public) - 7.9%

Rentenversicherung (Pension) - 9.95%

Arbeitslosenversicherung (Unemployment insurance) - 1.4%

Plegeversicherung (Long term care insurance) - 1.225%

As to income tax, since I am married and am in the worst tax class, I pay 32.67% in taxes, but if you aren't married, your taxes will be different.

Good luck with the job!
Kommentarlos
I needed confirmation from the university where I studied that I was engaged in active research while enrolled as a PhD student, as though I got the thing from sitting on my ass eating chocolate.
Did you do your qualification by post or what?

Hopefully for your sake that's a Bavarian-specific thing because it was an absolute nightmare to obtain.
It would seem so. In the real world an MSc by research or equivelent in a relevant field is enough to reach such dizzy salary heights.

At least if you can keep breathing for long enough you will crawl up the pay scale though to where you should have been years ago. At least you have enough amusing shaped farm instruments paraded around the streets at regular intervals as compensation.
LMB222
I am also on the TVL, E-13 scale.
Now it's called TVöD, as in the Wikipedia link.

FYI, may be important: if you're doing your PhD, then the 50% of the scale is just the lowest salary. There's no law that prohibits your professor to give you more, and indeed I know of a few that give 50% raise (up to 75% of E13) after the first paper.
pumpernikel
I get roughly 2200 after taxes etc (T14/1).
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