Holiday allowance for Praktikum students

Currently I have a job here in Germany for 6 months. I booked flights to go home for my birthday. It is a praktikum I am doing. I must complete 9 months to get the qualification. The company dont know how long I need to do and in fact its gonna work that i do more like 9.5 months so a few holidays should be ok i think.

Ultimately the issue is about holidays. The company gave me my contract in german and guidelines to my contract with it in english. The guidlines said i was entitled to holidays but it turns out they gave me the wrong guidelines. The contract guidelines they gave me was for full time employees, but I am calssed as a contractor.
So I am trying to find a loophole in the contract where i can get some holidays.

This is the section of the actual contract thich refers to holidays,

"Wenn Sie ein durch Gesetz oder Verordnung vorgeschriebenes Praktikum absolvieren, haben Sie keinen Urlaupsanspruch, da Ihr Praktikum als Bestandteil des Gesamtstudiums anzusehen ist. In allen anderen Fällen gilt das Bundesurlaubsgesetz"

I had a quick translation to english...

if you make a praktikum ordered from the law you dont have hollydays,
because your praktikum is part of your study you cant take hollydays..
in the other cases is regulated from the regional german laws..

I don't know what all this nonsense about laws an stuff is and if it actually applies to me but they are saying that it is this paragraph that tells me I can't have holidays.
Pleas tell me that 6 months without a holiday is a lot of shit!

Whats the deal?? Commissioned by law...WHAT???

They also made out it was my fault for not speaking german and coming to them with the bit I didnt understand. I obviously thought I understood everything as I had an explination i english. But as I said they made an arse of it...not me.

No doubt you can take time off, but won't be paid for it, like any contractor..

Paul, i had the same problem but for me it was for my benefit they gave me an additional bonus (which i think u dont want to hear at the moment) but once signed it cant be changed. if you check, the contract may say something about sick leave.this is not included in vacation time for most short term contracts for us.so just fall in sick during the time u need to party
If not im sure we can give u a fairly decent bday kick here u dont have to go back home
Oh and by the way for both the companies i did my internship i had 12 days for a 6 months contract.
D

in Germany there are two types of Praktika: "freiwillig" and ""Pflicht" Praktika.

The first means that you are doing off your own accord and it is NOT required by your university or college to complete your degree. If you are doing this type of praktikum you ARE entitled to holiday.

The second means that you are required by your university or college to complete the praktiku in order to gain your qualification. If you are going this type of praktikum you CAN NOT have holiday (unless the company turn a blind eye).

However, if the "PFlicht" part is only for 6 months and your completing 9,5 months, then you may be entitled to holiday during the extra time.

But careful because if you're sick for more than 3 days you'll need a doctor's note. Someplaces if your sick on friday also.

sick notes are handed out like candy bars here in Germany

Yeah i'v been given the time off but as you said i'm not getting paid for it. The problem is that I have already booked the flights home.

I'm really looking for what the relevance to the law is and how it applies to me. And it might just so happen that my brother and sister are having weddings in the same year and that i get sick one time from monday to friday.
Basically they are saying that I am entitled to no time off whatsoever.
As it is not defined exactly in the contract (only 2 A4 pages) and i have no contract guidlines (approx 30 pages) now at all.

I think if they want to F$%* me the i just need to F%&* them right back again!

@owain...I have already done the first 4.5 months so when i finish here thats me.

I mean if for example i had to complet 200 days for my qualification and by taking a holiday and only completing 199 would invalidate my qualification than fine but I have days to play with so why am i not just allowed to take some time off??

If you're doin it thru uni/college your uni/college can say if you are entitled to holiday sometimes.

I'm doin a praktikum and had to get uni to contact the company and tell them I'm entitled to holiday.

That could be an idea pieman. Only problem being that the uni are absolutely useless as far as my experiences go.

You dont still have a copy of a letter or something that was sent on your behalf do you?

it has to do with getting paid holiday or not. you can get time off, of course! but they won't pay you for it cause your internship is a required part of your education and required interns are not entitled to paid vacation. easy peasy.
the company saves money that way cause they don't pay you for your time off. too bad you didn't know what you were signing, but it ain't so bad, no?

Yeah i can get time off this time but only cos i alredy booked the flights. then told them and consequently found I wasn't allowed to take holidays!
The want me to extend the contract by 5 days so they dont care about the money side of things.

Yeah, I've got it somewhere.

My company jus needed something sayin "this student is doin a COMPULSORY praktikum and is entitled to holiday" with the uni stamp on it

@ Elfenstar: Not true for all companies. Here, if ur a volunteer praktikant u don't get paid holiday and if it's compulsory u get paid

I'm at an english uni doing my year out, so although my contract says is headed as 'practikant' im classed as a temporary employee. What country is your university in?

I get 2.5 days holidays a month, 6 weeks a year, which is standard where i work.
To get my qualifiation for doing my degree they understand that you have holiday, (i certainly dont know anyone going without holiday on my course). Thats for the ImechE, try contacting your university, go as high as you need to (do it on the companies phone bill). Or the accreditation board if there is one.

I have heard of people a couple of years ago having the problem that you're having, but their reputation for being stingy preceeded them and they ended up with no students wanting to work there.

I would question the legality of signing something they knew you didnt fully understand.
Are you on flexi-time, could you swing something that way?

chewy are you going into final year then after you do this praktikum?

and do the imeche have a say in what you do in an industrial year out, i hoped it was more to do with the advisor of studies as i intend to fob mine off with something fun with little work, though if the institution have something to do with it it may scupper my plans...

Im doing mech Eng at loughborough, and have one year left after this.

For the imeche you have to do 42 weeks, complete a log book, write and present your dissertation. This is so the imeche want you to do one less year at the other end. According to the guidelines, 'exceptions may be made of a shorter term than 42 weeks in special circumstances'.

The lecturer you have visiting you on placement should be ImechE or IEEE (whichever is the relevent body) accredited, and act as your 'sponsor'. That actually means very little, it's basically just to make this year tick the same boxes as your first year in industry would.

Ultimately when you apply for chartership the ImechE blokey you talk to will see your log book from this year, so put something in it!

The DIS 'Diploma in industrial studdies' is a certificate that the
university give u, and can be seperated from the ImechE.

I'm at uni in Scotland, working in Munich.
I thought it would also be standard procedure for me to get holidays. The thing is my boss doesn't mind but its a large multinational I work for and its the HR dept that fucked everything up and are in charge of my hols.
The question of legality does come into it but I dont want to lose the job.
I am on flexitime need to do 40 hrs per week but not allowed to do more than 10 per day. anything over 10 per day doesnt count towards the working week.
I will bring it up with my boss again when I see him on monday and I will be contacting the Uni. Unfortunately as I mentioned before the uni are pretty useless when it comes to helping you out in a foreign country as I found out earlier this year.

40 hours??an intern is supposed to officially do 35!!or atleast in my company..

thats nearly a whole day off of work!! lol

*waits for scotsman to announce the tech, aka strathclyde...and prepares to unleash some bad chat if he does*

where are ye at then?!

the tec?? Paisley Uni.
What you on about Schotte??

ok you are forgiven

Im on 40 hrs a week as standard as well. But i can 'bank' hours. And yeah, ive played the system that way.
do the company have students working for them in the uk? get the picture from their side i bet they get holiday.

I'v just realised that as they have taken away the guidelines i had...technically I have none now and therfore I dont know what I'm allowed to work. there could be a couple of 15 hour days on the cards!! lol
Theres no reason to say I can't bank my hours now. I just need to keep an accurate record of what I work!!
They've scewed themselves with that...thats magic!!

Do you mean banking hours like for 1 week off or just throughout the day?? I'm takin my contract home with me tonight an ill go through it with my flatmate (german) so will no for defo what i can and cant do.

Its been a while since I was talkin about this but its still not sorted. I've sent this email to the HR department and am still waiting on a response. I wanted to have the hard line but not to angry yet still polite approach sort of letter. It should explain my situation much more clearly than I did before and if theres anyone who has any legal advice cos this situation really is pissing me off...a lot!

Dear XYZ,

Can you please ensure that I am paid for the days that I was in off on holiday this month. We can add the days on at the end of my contract in August if we need to. The reason I say this is because when I was in Scotland I spoke with my University and the head of my course. It is also the opinion of the university that I should be entitled to holidays as I am working like any other member of staff and that I signed the contract under false pretenses.
The fact that I have signed the German contract stating that I agree with the contract is not accurate, because I do not. As everyone I have ever spoken to in German knows, my knowledge of the German language is basic and by no means anywhere near the level required to understand a written contract. I agreed with the terms laid out in the English description of the contract. When I signed the contract I was given a completely false impression by the fact that the description I was given to the contract was completely incorrect.

I would not have signed the contract had I been given the correct description in English of the contract at the time.

To say that it is my fault for not understanding the contract is completely unfair. When I am sent a contract and details about the contract by a new employer I should have the right to assume that all of the documents contained are correct and do not completely contradict one another. Had I been given no English description of the contract I would have been forced to seek a professional translation. However, as mentioned already, I was under the impression that the description was accurate and therefore felt no need to get it translated. To say that I should have come to HR with the problem of not understanding the contract would normally be an adequate response. However, as I was not made aware that I had no paid holidays until after I had booked them there was no reason that I would have found out that there was a problem between the contract and the English description supplied with it. This begs the question, how can I come and speak to HR about a problem before I know the problem exists? Which is ultimately what was being suggested upon discovery of the problem, if you remember correctly.

I have had the section of the contract dealing with the holidays translated into English;

if you make a praktikum ordered from the law you don't have holydays,
because your praktikum is part of your study you cant take holydays..
And in the other cases is regulated from the regional German laws..

My praktikum, as far as I know, has nothing to do with being ordered from the law so I would think that this part does not apply.
I also presume HR are unaware that for me to attain accreditation from my University for my time in Germany I must complete a minimum of 9 months. When my contract ends with (company name here) on the 13th August 2005, I will have completed just under 10.5 months. The first 4.5 months were completed in Leipzig between 1st October 2004 and 13th February 2005, with the other 6 being completed here between the 14th February 2005 and 13th August 2005. The praktikum is part of my studies, however, I am completing more time than necessary and it is perfectly legitimate for me to have holidays and still attain my accreditation.

Currently I am awaiting the arrival of a letter from my University in Scotland detailing this.

As I also mentioned previously I have spoken with my university, both in Leipzig and Scotland who deal with a great many students completing internships every year. Both have expressed that it is highly unusual to be expected to work the entire duration of the contract and not given any holidays. They also expressed that the normal allowance is 2.5 days holiday per month worked.

Hopefully we will resolve this issue soon as I have functions that were arranged before my praktikum that I need to attend in Scotland, hence the reason for stating that I would not have signed the contract had everything been clear at the time, or at least made sure that the time off would have been made available for me.

I hope that you can be understanding an flexible about this issue,

Best regards,

can you let me know the name of the company so i can warn my uni job advisor not to recommend a placement at your company? if you put it earlier in the thread, im blonde, tierd and wanting to go to the pub thus i missed it.
Just want to avoid anyone else getting stuck