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Monster
Meetic

Race and dating

Your thoughts on the elephant in the room

NycLabrets

Nowhere in history has a person ever been able to successfully change their race.
You're playing with another deck of cards there. Capice?
Nowhere has a black person been able to change into a white person to better suit the situation.

Race is the unchangeable factor.
I capice.

Two words, and one book:

Michael Jackson.

The book, while describing a negative situation, did bring awareness to a deplorable situation and did play a vital role at the time it was written in enacting positive change.
flint24
Insensitive...fuck off, seriously. Now you're accusing me of racism...I purposely used that example because I knew that you would immediately draw that conclusion, rather than the point I was actually making. You've proven my suspicion that you're one of those people who WANTS to see the racism in everything.

So give me an example of a more politically correct analogy that would have made you happy...

No - but to look for an issue where there is none is "crying wolf" in my opinion. And pretending that there is some kind of underlying racism involved in choosing partners to date and that people won't talk about it because of some underlying fear, is exactly that.

@flint24
I asked you earlier why you would think that dating outside of your race should be an educational experience? What does it teach you?

I put it to you, that if you and your partner didn't worry about your respective races, then you wouldn't even see it after a short period - and hence there's nothing to learn. For me, dating outside my race isn't "awesome", it's exactly the same as dating within my race. If it's not for you, then you obviously have some issues concerning race...
I called you insensitive, not a racist. Do you ever pay attention??

Agree to disagree. You think people who have had negative racial experiences when dating outside their race, no matter how many there are, are whiners and crying wolf. I don't think so. Agree to disagree.

I think dating outside my race is an "educational experience?" Man, we were in law school together I'd eat you alive Anyway, I never said it was an educational experience. What I said was, I learned something from just about every race. It was a win/win situation. I'd have to say the most important thing it taught me is that people have sense, and no race more than others. They just don't use this sense most of the time. The smartest person can be so lazy when it comes to race relations, and even the "victim" can be guilty of being racist.

And that's your own experience, not mine. My experience was "awesome" cause I choose awesome women
flint24
But it's your fundamental failing in the whole conversation.

It's not a dead horse. It's your closed mind.
You're trying to attack the whole issue of race when the whole world has already moved ahead of you. Race exists. I personally hate it, you obviously hate it, but it's necessary. Your gov't thinks so. My gov't thinks so. Myspace thinks so. Facebook thinks so. Why do you want to keep "fighting the power" on that one?
flint24
I capice.

Two words, and one book:

Michael Jackson.

The book, while describing a negative situation, did bring awareness to a deplorable situation and did play a vital role at the time it was written in enacting positive change.
Good book and better movie And very smart, but the guy never actually changed his "race" per se, just superficially. But I suppose if "everyone" thinks your black, then are you black? The guy eventually stopped being black and moved back to his house in California.
Owain Glyndwr
This comment kinda proved to me that we really are on two different sides of this argument. Why you're injecting religion into this debate, even as an analogy, proves you don't know what the hell I'm talking about.

Ugh... tired of saying this. People in recorded history have changed religion, sexual preference, eye color, hair color, etc. Not trying to say changing sexual preference is the same as eye color is the same as religion. I'm saying it is possible. Nowhere in history has a person ever been able to successfully change their race. You're playing with another deck of cards there. Capice?

Please try to follow along. A Catholic and a Jew courts. The father of whomever doesn't like whomever because of their religion. The person changes their religion to better suit the situation. It has happened. Nowhere has a black person been able to change into a white person to better suit the situation. Race is the unchangeable factor.
skin colour is not what will make you incompatible to a potential mate. It is things like culture, customs, religion and other belief systems, education, etc.
Pas
You're trying to attack the whole issue of race when the whole world has already moved ahead of you. Race exists. I personally hate it, you obviously hate it, but it's necessary. Your gov't thinks so. My gov't thinks so. Myspace thinks so. Facebook thinks so. Why do you want to keep "fighting the power" on that one?
Because science has moved passed it.

The world was once flat.
nomadin
You know what? Why is it not possible for some people on this thread to just accept that their own experience (or lack thereof) with interracial/interethnic dating is not necessarily reflective of anyone else's experience. I think the original poster's point in starting this discussion was to give people a place to talk about whatever that experience was - but the discussion has devolved into a bunch of people saying that Person A must be lying/overreacting/racist/making sh*t up just because they had a different experience than Person B.

If you think racial/ethnic issues in dating don't exist, and that opinion is borne out by your own experience, fine. But don't jump down another poster's throat just because they've had a different experience and/or come to a different conclusion. What's really disheartening is that almost EVERY thread where race is mentioned in this forum ends up this way.

Is it too much to ask that this thread just be a place to discuss ideas without so much judgment? And of course, to ask questions, but to do so in a civil and respectful way? Maybe then this could be a useful forum instead of a Fox News-style punditry slugfest.
dessa_dangerous
@ moctoj2 - woah, woah, mama, hold on now... just because a person wasn't dating during the 60s doesn't mean they don't know anything about racism, or about mixed-race relationships being frowned upon. My black mom (five years old in 1960) got shit from her pops for being with my white dad in 1980, and ironically enough, I get shit from her and her brothers for having never had a black boyfriend. I am from "liberal" Seattle, where the people are just as conscious of race as people anywhere else, but where they keep their mouths shut about it. A friend of mine is 22 years old and has heard no end of fucked-up assumptions and comments about her relationship with her man, who is from Honduras. I could continue but you get the point. Miscegenation is an concept that still lives in many an American head and affects many a (young) American relationship.

@ owain - (although this question was not addressed to me) well, I would call Iranians Arabs. What would you call them?
hams
They are definitely NOT Arabs. They would be Persians. History lesson needed perhaps.
Keydeck
Aren't they of Aryan stock? So if it's a question of race, you could probably go with Master.
flint24
Reading 19 pages, my eyes started to blur.

Did anyone mention generational differences in regards to race?

Speed Dating...now that wasn't around in my dating days, thankfully. What a painful way to get rejected so quickly. If you exclude the captain 'picking teams' in grade school.

Anyway, isn't the OP American? It's always about race isn't it? Just watch My Big Fat Greek Wedding which outlines the perils of inter-racial dating and marriage and what comes with it. I can bet the OP has never seen it. I grew up with race riots in my back yard. My father moved us because in his words, 'we were being surrounded by black people and he didn't want his kids to be in the cross-fire'.

I am white, sorta. Father was full blooded first generation Italian American. He was beat up (mentally) for being Italian. Mother was a cotton picker from the southern states (of English, Irish decent) worked alongside blacks in the fields. Dark skinned, hair, eyed dad, and pale freckled hazel eyed mother. Now, they experienced the first 'marrying outside of race' generation back in the late 50s. My mother was chastised for marrying a damn dego by her ex-mother-in-law that turned out to be Jewish. (We didn't know that til she died and learned her maiden name). They seemed to manage well. As I grew up, I was proud of my Italian heritage but my father never taught us Italian. I recently discovered that my Father's twin sister, who is almost 77 is still ashamed to be Italian. Now I know why he never taught us.

And, what did I do? When in my mid-40s, I married an Indian...from London. He's not Asian Indian at all. He's British. Doesn't know a thing about Indian culture even though he was born there. Did my family accept him? Sure. at First. His accent made them forget his skin color.

But, the struggles remain. It's about generational racism. My sister accepts him but rants on and on about black welfare bitches and the Mexican illegals having anchor babies in America right in front of us. Oh the irony. My Mother obviously accepts him.

Gen Xers - are what 20? 30? it's all about culture, expectations and whether your family will accept your partner. If a girl is raised in a family like mine where racism was rampant, they will shy away from dating other races to keep the trouble out or do it in defiance.

I rejected several dates with black men because of racist rants by my siblings. By the time I met my husband, I realized I was rejecting these guys because of my family, not because of them being human. I decided to take the plunge with this man and fell in love. It had nothing to do with his skin color. Or his race. It was the person. I may have been slow in making that decision later in life, but that is what it is. It can be generational. At least that's my experience.

Edit: I should mention, sister is half sister. Blond, blue eyed..from her father. When people meet us together, they think we're joking when we say we're sisters. Then they look closer and see the resemblance from our mother.
Your father sounds awesome!

Yes I did see the movie. Another reason why interracial dating is important to talk about.

Ok your story is kinda interesting. I wonder if your siblings made fun of the Indian people at the gas stations and convenience stores in America as much as they mad fun of blacks and Mexicans, or if your husband was more "Indian" in culture than British, would that have made a difference. IDK, just the first questions that popped into my head while writing this. Your story is very familiar in the US. White flight was a problem back in the 70's and 80's, and this will surprise you but I don't blame your parents for wanting to leave. But to label it a "black problem" like if your new wealthier neighborhood was also full of blacks then the same problems also would occur, would be lazy. Call it what it is. It's a poor problem. Poverty is not bound by race.

Although it kinda bothers me that you rejected dates with black men because they were black, that was your choice. Could have been love, could have been nothing. You'll never know.

How many other families out there do you think also rejects the idea of their daughters bringing home a black guy? Honestly? As you can see, it influenced your dating preference big time. Is it possible it also influences other girls' dating preference? What about girls in your neighborhood? Your state?
flint24
skin colour is not what will make you incompatible to a potential mate. It is things like culture, customs, religion and other belief systems, education, etc.
Yeah I agree
makkadman
When beautiful and dark women in the Philippines, Indonesia, Japan, or the Caribbean spend upwards to several million dollars a year on skin whitening creams to appear more white, thus more beautiful, ... that the standard for beauty is white, blonde and American.
I'm with you on most of the other stuff, but want to point out that whitening creams are not about race. Or they are as much about race as a suntan is. It is a very facile conclusion to draw that everyone who is trying to make their skin whiter is trying to be white, but it is plain wrong. In most societies, which contained people of a single race, the skin color reflected the possibility of leisure. The people who had to work in the field for a living would be quite dark, while the rich people could avoid the sun and maintain a fair complexion. So the skin color marked, and in many cases continues to mark the social status, not the racial status.

This is similar to the wish of people to appear tanned in most Western countries, where the average office worker would not get much chance to be in the sun, while someone rich could afford to go and get a suntan even in the winter. Even in most western countries prior to the industrial revolution, when most workers worked outside, fairness was considered a sign of beauty. It is only in the late nineteenth century that a white/pale/fair complexion ceased to be a mark of beauty.

Japan, which is probably the most racist country on the planet, is a very big consumer of whitening creams, but they consider white people quite ugly. I have been in a small town shop where the locals walked out when a white person entered (luckily I blend in, till I open my mouth, so didn't have to go through stuff like this). Michael Jackson trying to change his race, yes. Mariko-san using whitening cream? she is just trying to get laid, by a Japanese.
Owain Glyndwr
@ owain - (although this question was not addressed to me) well, I would call Iranians Arabs. What would you call them?
the question wasn't what to call them but to what "race" they belong.

btw, when the human species was originally classified into sub-species, or "races", there were only Caucasian, Negroid, Mongoloid, Capoid and Australoid, so your answer should really be one of those, if you think that "race" is a valid concept.

and also, Iranians aren't Arabs. "Arab" isn't a race anyway, it is a culture.
Pas
...

OG fighting the corner there well so invalid...
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