The status of American football (soccer)

Granted italy is a very good team and our current group is pretty tough (Italy, Brazil,Egypt). Do we have a chance come 2010? I honestly believe we have the talent but do we have the chance to improve if we say hire a skipper like Klinsmann? Thought and perspectives please.

We were uninspired and lacked creativity and drive tonight. That was painful to watch. I think it would be easy to pin it on Bradley, so I will. We need a new boss. Anyone can tell a team they need more motion (a lot of flat foots tonight), but there was just nothing, even on the rare breaks where they could have put something together, it was like they slowed it down because it's only practice and they hadn't worked out what to do next. I've never seen them that bad (adjusted for where they should be at this point). No chance of getting out of the first round without changes. They barely looked like a team.

Bohemka's spot on. I also think we need a European coach. Having more players with multiyear experience playing in the top European leagues would also help.

Incidentally, maybe you have heard that Schalke's Jermaine Jones wants to play for the US (although we need a creative offensive midfielder more than anything else).

Well Bman I do not think it was our worst outing although a pitiful outing. It was like all right we scored a goal , granted a penalty one, so thats more than expected. Untill italy scored that first goal I thought okay maybe just maybe a draw but we fell apart after that with the look of of not caring. It was just sad.

I dunno. With teams like Italy your deficiencies in every area are exposed. The US has been ranked artificially high for many years because of the extraordinary amount of qualifying games they play against crap opposition. The US is an ordinary side full of players from a second or third rate league. The ones that make it into foreign leagues play for the average teams. They still have many years of youth development before they have a chance against the cream of the crop.

Don't get me wrong. England is far from a team that has a chance of ever winning the world cup (before you start the counter attack) and the UK media always hypes up their chances, as they are doing now.

I reserve comment until we play a match against a top team where the refs don't make up the twelfth man of the opposing side.

Penalty deserved or not, it looks like the same U.S. team we've been seeing for the last 15 years. You could count hanging tough with Italy as an accomplishment, but Italy often makes weak teams look good before thrusting the dagger in a few decisive times.

how very predictable.

Spot on. I was talking last night with a dude and he couldnt believe we always qualified for matches. I said its easy when they pair you with Tobogo, trinidad etc etc


Yep your kids will reap the rewards of being in those barely funded public high school programs. Fortunately for you though that U.S. womens soccer programs are light years ahead of the mens programs. I recommend University of Portland for your daughter although those girls are hot and you more than likey will inherit a son-in-law from there.

I like your way of thinking there Perdido. University of Portland it is. for me, that is...

eurovol - it is your way of thinking that will see no improvement in the performances by the US team. Why look at your own shortcomings when you can blame others for your bad results? Bravo

Yes well I agree, we are depending too much on our youth to develop thru high cost club programs. Don't get me wrong the clubs have wonderful talent and wonderful coaching, infact the clubs probably have better coaching than the national team. The pay is better at the clubs than for the national team. Unfortunately the politics in the clubs tends to weed out very talently and/or poorer(financially) players. So that by the time these kids turn 18 they are burned out and disgusted by the coaches/parents and other aspects of what should have been an otherwise fun and exciting sport.

I would love to see the sport become better funded at the high school level. But to do that you wll need to see supporter turn out at the games. And we are just not ready for that. So as long as Football is bringing in the booster club money it will be the first beneficiary of the dollars.

Seriously. How does the trainer/coach make any difference in the game of soccer? My question is not rhetorical or trolling, I seriously don't get it.

Belichick, Parcells, Gibbs, Spurrier (college days of course) all have a dramatic impact on how each play is conceived, and executed. What the hell does Klinsmann say to the players? "Guys, don't stand so close together all the time, and when you see some running at the goal, kick the ball in front of him so he can control it in stride."

I think the randomness of the ball striking and the lack of precision the players exhibit prevents the trainer from having any real impact on the outcome of a game. Now, I will admit that game planning for a team, especially a team that may have glaring weaknesses, is where the trainer can have a direct impact. But, when play starts who the hell knows where the ball is going?

I have seen coaches come in and take the worst teams and turn them into champs. By knowing which players play well where and with whom and at what time, by how they arrange the field ie do they carry a heavier offense, midfield, or defense by who they choose to even play on the team. Your point is good if the coach hasn't done his job before the first whistle blows he can't do a whole lot until the end. His job begins months before the first game ever starts. And develops through out the whole season.

I know I can't explain it well..have you ever played on an organised team before?

He is from Bahston so no he has probably not.

An narrow minded assholish comment as usual, bravo!

Ok I'll bite, a 10 man US team sucks against a 12 man Italian team and being a man down does absolutely nothing to change the dynamics of the game or the game plan. Actually, they are pretty good for approx. 30mins before they are 110% burned out (took Italy 60 minutes to score, 30 of which were against a 10 man team). As for the refs, when it happens all too often in big matches it gets kind of old and predictable. The high kick definitely deserved a yellow, but gets a red. The Italian foul in the box with a kick and a shove on the opponent in scoring position deserved a red automatically and only gets an 11 meter freebie. Splain that to me?

The US men's team just keeps on getting better and better (albeit damn slowly), but as previously mentioned the money isn't there and it isn't our National Sport! Soccer has football, basketball and baseball to compete with on the national scene and the few niche markets for soccer are so far apart that extramural competition is severely limited simply due to logistics and costs. You best just keep hoping that the full weight of the US never gets behind soccer. That way you can keep on making your snide shallow hollier-than-thou remarks that seem to make you all feel better about yourselves.

PS: it was an American that scored two of Italy's goals and another almost contributed a third.

PPS: change a few rules to open up the offense and have more scoring and the Americans will love it.

PPPS: the US is 0-4-3 against the Italians and this is the first multi-goal loss to them since 1934. Yeah, we really suck.

Baseball has often no more than 3 runs in a game.

You see soccer doesnt have time for commercials so no money from advertisers hence TV rather not give a damn.

Also for the record he was half american half italian I do believe. Now both of you knock it off.

Incidentally, Rossi should have his US citizenship revoked like people who enlist in other countries militaries.

Think of the history of the games. There were no commercials back when things were getting into the national psyche. You are falling for the typical "trap", but commercials didn't make the games popular in the US. Soccer started in the US in 1913 and for a while we dominated. We were one of the first teams associated with FIFA. It just never became ingrained into American culture. Yes, baseball has low scoring games, but the potential for a single player to blast a grand slam is there and more often than not comes into play. In a soccer game, you might get 1 or 2 chances at a shot on goal, but in baseball, you are at the plate 3 or more times per game. Also, baseball came from company sponsored teams. Those companies didn't sponsor soccer teams. As for football and basketball, they are just simply exciting to watch and filled the seasons when baseball wasn't in play. In other words, you had baseball in the summer, football in the fall and basketball in the winter/spring leading back into baseball. Commercials did not set that precedent and they did not decide on the popularity of the various sports.

If it were up to me, I would say add three timeouts per game/half to allow for the coach to do his or her job in adjusting strategies and no I personally do not think it would disrupt the flow of the game. Hell if anything, it would take away the necessity of players falling on the ground at every bump to interrupt the game with bogus injury time. No, I do not think flagrant acting is a legitimate strategy but that is just me.


Hell yeah, I agree! He sounds like a cheap ass wine anyway and his scores were more for fresh legs than anything else.

No, I think his scores were the result of a flat-footed/tired US team that stood by and watched him do what he did. Maybe they thought it was a commercial break.

Probably tired because they were undermanned for 60 minutes due to a red card that was given out for reasons more fictional than the latest Harry Potter novel.

Jesus I can't believe I'm arguing about Soccer, i've been in this bloody country too long.

The problem about Commercial breaks is that now the major channels have control. If your going to have something on in prime time on a real channel competing with one of the other major sports, it has to have a way to bring in an equivilant amount of add money.

Indeed. Did you see the ratings for ESPN2's coverage of MLS game's last season? It was embarrassing.

What part of "he had fresh legs" did you not understand?

Watch out or you will become the object of Brit ridicule! Remember, stupid septics don't know not'in 'bout soccer. Funny, but I don't seem to recall any Americans rejecting out of hand the Brits knowledge of American sports. Hell, I figure if they care enough to comment about it (except for the typical commercials, girls blouse, pads, etc all-in-fun type comments), then they actually deserve to be listened to and appreciated for their interest.

For soccer to break into the US tv markets, that is a huge problem and I won't even begin to say it is not. Rule changes would definitely be needed for that aspect alone. Thing is, the other TV markets wouldn't mind those types of changes either. TV coverage has to be paid for one way or another.

He didn't exactly dance around a bunch of people. The goals came from outside (except Pirlo's beautiful setup) as the US stood and watched. You cannot concede open shots like that at any level. The US looked flat. And you can't blame it on being down a man. There were people in position to make a play on the ball, but they didn't. It honestly looked like husband and wife disease a few times. I blame coaching, and the fact that these guys maybe don't know each other that well.

Coaching will have a lot to do with it. A lot of coaches cannot make the step up from club to country because at country level their resources are a lot more limited and they cannot just buy in talent to fill holes. I think Bruce Arena did a fantastic job as manager during his time and they are sorely lacking that leadership quality now.

What trap? This arguement is wrong on sooooo many levels I cannot begin to think of where to start and I cannot now because I am working. I will respond come morning.

OK. So USA lost 3:0 to Brazil. Care to comment now? It looked like the US was pretty comprehensively outplayed from where I was sitting

Didn't watch the game and so I can't comment on it. At 3:0, it sounds like we didn't show up to play. What do you want, a medal?

No no. I have all I need. Thank you eurovol.

Strange how you only seem to comment on losses where you feel you were treated so unfairly

eurovol, you're supposed to freak out because once again we didn't finish with a full squad.

3-0? It seems all the lads played. I am just happy [s]we[/s]they kept it under five goals. Now I am waiting for my invite saying 1,000,000 Facebook users against Bradly coaching the U.S.A.

Nope, another player saw red and we finished with 10. Not that it mattered at that point.

FIFA outlawed that, since he already played for the German A-national team.
Only pre U21 you can switch allegiance.

I had previously thought so as well, but there was apparently a recent rule change that states a player can now do do if they did not play in a "Pflichtspiel" (i.e., a non-friendly) for the first national team. Jones has three caps, none of which were in a "Pflichtspiel". I read this in a Welt Online article about a week ago (don't remember the exact date).

EDIT: I think this was the article:
http://www.welt.de/sport/fussball/article3...ler-zur-WM.html

OK, if they were "Freundschaftspiele" maybe. But the rule change you mentioned only works for U21. Before that you had no chance of switching allegiance at all if you ever played on national level.


http://euro.zaman.com.tr

Anyway, i find it a cheap move by Jones. He talked somethnig about unfair treatment (racism etc. - as if Löw had racist motives), because he wasn't invited to the Asia trip and now wants to play for another country. A bit of a crybaby move. You don't want players in the national team that turn away so easily. Diva...

toko, this is a quote from the link I posted above:


For non-German speakers this is roughly translated as the following: players over 21 can also switch national teams as long as they haven't played in a competitive (non-friendly) match for the [original] top level national team.

I comment on games that I actually watch or watched regardless of the "treatment". Sorry to disappoint you.


You have so much to learn grasshopper.

Look, I have an opinion on the game and the rules, and just cause it doesn't necessarily jibe with a certain "clique" around here doesn't mean my views aren't totally off base. People are supposed to be able to disagree on sports without it turning into some kind of Nationalistic us versus them kind of thing. Seems my opinion is automatically devalued because Team USA is devalued. In other words, Americans can't know anything about soccer since we "suck". I don't buy that at all and neither should anyone else. I grew up playing football, basketball, soccer and running track (on organized teams) back in the '70s as well as playing baseball and softball on disorganized teams up until I moved here. I think I am qualified to give opinions on sports that I have played and had fun playing. I think I gave up the Nationalistic mumbo jumbo after serving in the military in the '80s and most definitely since moving overseas. Some people should do the same already.

As I have said before, Team USA is good and getting better. They are not the best, are not close to "cream of the crop", but don't act like they don't even deserve to be there and trying. That is the thing that bothers me the most and it does come across that way from quite a few of the posters here.

Totally incorrect. You have an opinion about anything and that is all that counts. Your opinion is correct and anyone who disagrees is an idiot. I like to pretend you are open to discussion but it will never change your point of view.

You see, we agree on referees needing help but do not agree on the methods you think should be deployed. However, in your eyes that means that we do not value your opinion and you play the "because we are dumb yanks with no clue about football" card..

But U21 can now switch even though they played competitive national team matches. That was prohibited before. I'm not saying anything else.
My point was that you don't want a player in the US team, that walks away so easily. National teams are not club teams. Even if he's allowed to, it's strange to change teams at senior level. He won't make any friends.

So when the Titans do horrible no one has the right to bitch about their game play? When Dallas plays like shit I call them out on it especially when I KNOW they can play better. At no point did I ever say they (USA soccer) are the worst. I said they can play better and should play better. Your opinions on on how to improve soccer I think are shit. Time outs? Jesus maybe you like wathing three hours of sports for two hours of game play but I dont . Have you been to a NFL game? Jesus man the amount you sit around to watch a bunch of guys scratching their nuts is baloney . Look world football two hours in and out. I can watch the match there and be at the pub drinking some pints if I am not already there. Oh by the way I also played baseball, soccer, and football I didnt bother bother with basketball because its not a real sport. I gave up the first three after I found something better.

If anything I wish the NFL would take some of the World Football rules. If your team does no do shit for two years move down and bring in another city. It would eliminate historic teams moving from say Houston to Knoxville and expect the local populace to take on that storied franchise. Sorry dude nothing personal but Knoxville,nashvillwhatever did not have Earl Campbell, Warren Moon, Drew Hill, Bum Phillips ever play for them. Let them have their own historic moments instead taking someone elses. Red cards and yellow cards would also be a nice plus for these role models within the NFL . Just for starters those are a few. By no means is soccer the ideal sport but it is a sport that is pretty fun to watch and play and excuse me if I want us to play better.

On another thing before I get accusations. I love American sports but do think we can improve our games and yes there is market appeal for soccer if allowed . With the way we have things set up thoughit will be hard pressed to get much coverage. Oh yes marketing had a huge influence in the begining for the american sports and if you do not think so then you have not read your history.

Also dont throw that clique crap around. Its like hearing "We beat the germans in 45" it is so repetitive and so old. If you have an issue with Crawlie so be it but dont use it for a point in your arguement. Far as I know Bohemka nor I was ever, would be, or most likey allowed in the "clique". Dont get me wrong I would drink a few pints with crawlie so I could get him pissed, beat the shit out of him, leave him in a ditch with a "Chelsea 4ever" jersey on , photograph him, send it it to all my face book friends,but thats just me. Oh I would do that for fun not because I hate him.

I play it because you and others actually said it (go back and find it if it hadn't been deleted). I have an awesome memory!!! Oh wait, maybe that was one of your drunken nights? You know, the endless PMs where you profusely apologized to me for being a dick because you didn't realize that I was a real person that actually knew your spouse. Look, you are a bright guy and pretty cool in real life, but you most certainly are as big a dick online as you think I am. Just fucking accept that I say things American style and deal with it. It ain't that hard. Just remember we don't do self deprecation like you do. That's all.


Dude, get over the fact that a Texas team moved to Tennessee. The world and life changes! It is not like I wanted a shit Texas team coming to us anyway.

PS: Why does OG get to change the title to a Brit centric one and I don't get to change it back to the Sarabyrd one that was and is more accurate??? It is not American football, it is American soccer! I would love to play OG and a few others around here in American football! God, that would be fun.

And there we go. I was waiting for that one. I guess it must be just like one of your drunken nights when you come on the board and enter into one of your foaming mouthed tirades on a variety of topics which ultimately gets modded causing you to go on one of your foaming mouthed tirades against the moderating team who are oh so unfair in their treatment of you and, therefore forcing you off of Toytown only for you to return a few weeks later telling everyone how you never read any of the topics anymore which leads to your posting count to slowly increase again until you enter one of your foaming mouthed, drunken posting tirades and so on and so on?

Let me see. that was, what, 3 or 4 years ago? Still, nice to see you have to resort to that sort of tactic instead of facing up to the fact that you are as big a dick in real life as you are online.

Ah yes, when all else fails say you were waiting for it and try to turn the tables.

I never said I didn't post on here drunk and I never said that I didn't go off in a tirade against some stupidity or other. However, that does not excuse the fact that you and others claimed that I could not comment on soccer because I was a stupid American. Now you can sit there and act like you didn't, but we all know the truth. My thoughts on specific rule changes have not wavered and they won't unless you can prove to me that they would be detrimental to the game. In fact, even a recent post by a "few cats" said that something had to be done about the free range that the refs seem to have.

Now, do you want to match mental prowess? Drunk or sober, I am pretty sure that I can run rings around you if that is the game you want to play. As for who is the bigger dick, well, I am confident enough in my manhood to give you that one. Cheers, on the big dick scale...you win!

PS World: I just sent Crawlie a message that said "if you are taking any of this seriously, then you are not playing the game well". However, it seems you know who is not accepting messages from you know who.

I guess some people can dish it, but can't take it.

If only the US team played with this passion and determination!

As my son would say, "you can say that loud". It is kind of German for "You can say that again". He is right and you are right bohemka.

Uh huh.. If all else fails then use the "I WAS ONLY JOKIIIINNNGGGG" thing. Dish it and can't take it? Whenever you get backed into a corner you resort to the same old tactic and the same old reference in an attempt to ridicule your foe in public. Guess what? It doesn't work. But, if you want to get personal then please do if that is what floats your boat.

Now. Bohemka. You are right. The US does not play with passion and I blame that a lot on the fact that they do not really have to. I mean, they play against 2nd, 3rd and 4th rate opposition 90 percent of the time. There is no real contest and the only time they lose is if they lose concentration. However, the US team has not improved at all over the last few years and they are in danger of slipping behind unless they do something drastic to the set-up - bringing in a coach with a fresh approach would be a start.

If I could PM you you twat, this is about what you would get!

Let us go back to the origins shall we? This was regarding posts and PMs from you. I am working with a group on some of the aspects discussed here.

I actually think it was this night that Mr Crawlie apologized profusely for being such a dick to me. Funny thing is, that lasted until I had my own "opinions" concerning soccer and the 2006 state of play. At that point, I was basically told by Mr Crawlie and others that I had no right to talk about soccer because I was an American. Unless Mr Bob deleted those posts like was done with the Crawlie shit posts, we can go have a look at those too.

No Mr Crawlie, you and the others being a dick on Nationalistic grounds does follow you even if it was 3, 4 or 5 years ago. The fact is, you and those have been as big if not bigger dicks since.

Go look. I rarely comment on anything you say and yet you seem to show up and put me down whenever possible. Fine when it is in fun, hell the Dog puts me down all the time, but you and a couple of others are more stalker like and you all seem to suggest in PMs how you are all in agreement that you have to attack me. You all are sad little fucks you are.

Now, want to talk about soccer and the state of Team USA, fine. Want to make it personal, then fuck off! Talk about the team, their attitude, their coach even, but leave the nationalistic shit out of it. Accept the fact that it isn't our national sport and we aren't as crazy about it as you and your countrymen are. Hell, it isn't even an Olympic sport so that makes it even less of a priority for most USians.

I like the sport and I wish we put more into it. We put more money into a tax payer subsidized football or baseball stadium than we do in the entire sport of soccer. Hell, we didn't have major league soccer until 1996. That is like 10 years after the "hand of God" goal you all LOVE to complain about. What has your team done since?

Talking bollocks again are we eurovol? Go look at the list of Olympic Sports.

Love the "wanna make it personal?" approach. I think you will find that you have the habit of making things personal and making the full on attacks. And, wow, you pulled out one post you could find from all those years ago. Great. Well done. I am sure you are proud of yourself at having found that.

And, yes, I am sure Ed Bob did remove all of the posts to ensure you have no evidence to hit us with because he is sooo biased towards us and just does not like you at all. EVAH.

Oh, and I think you will find you can PM so please do. Then you can call me a fuckhead, I can respond and you will have some more stuff you can pull out in the event of an argument in 10 years' time. Lucky chap

I think the lack of passion and determination in the Brazil game had to do with the simple fact that they were overmatched and they knew it. They’re a pretty downtrodden bunch right now – who can blame them?

I agree completely. I was still at work for yesterday's match, but... and this seems weird to say, but... they seemed miserable against Italy. Like they had to be there. The body language and expressions reeked of discouragement. Another reason why Bradley's got to go.