Munich unemployment rate now at 9.1%

Out in the paper today, I read that in the whole of germany the unemployment rate is up to 12.6% and with 5.2million people out of work. In, Munich is 9.1% as of today with 115,024 people out of work. I can not believe it!!!

How has this affected the foriegn popluation in living Munich?

The rate in Munich is higher than the rate of the whole of the US... I was planning to go to Munich and find I job... I guess it's better to go somewhere else...

And with the current economic climate, it ain't going to get better soon !

Read between the lines. The way the numbers are counted has changed which has led to the upward trend.

Time for a little tax/welfare change Im afraid.

did anyone see the german economic specialist on cnn last nite?
painful. trying to put a positive spin on it.
fact is economy is stagnant and if you look east there are millions of people who will work for less pay, less holiday, less labour rights.
doesn't look good.

Not only east, but also west.

UK standard working week 40
Germany - between 35 and 37.5

Direct tax from the salary in the Uk averages around 33% where as here in Germany 47%. OK there are a lot of hidden taxes in the UK, but this is also the case in Germany. France is now also considering increasing its working week back to 40 hours, but the unions are trying to stop this.

What are the hidden taxes in Germany ?

Part of the cure would be getting people to start spending the money they have which isn't going to happen if you take more away from them.

All the (other) politicians are offering is more of the same: less pay and rights for workers to protect the bosses profits.

In other news, significant increase in poverty in Germany reported today; let's cure it by cutting welfare shall we?

@ Grtho

I dont know of any poor countries where profits are "protected" (long term that is). Eventually you will have to face the truth - profits bring companies and jobs.

I just came back from Buenos Aires ... there is no such thing as poverty in Munich.

@ pepper: average working hours (including overtime) is about 42 hours in Germany which is a little bit above European average.

Err ? is that really true ? There are currently discussions all over Germany about companies raising the standard working week to 40.

The unions control this quite a lot, trying to keep quality time for the family, while companies are going bankrupt. So I guess there will be in the future perhaps too much family time !

I know in the company I work for is a traditional German company, and the working week here ranges from 35 to 37.5.

Argentinia went tits up partly as a result of fixing its exchnage rate to the US Dollar.

What was that compnay last week in multi million profits but sacking orkers? Oh yeah Deutsche Bank.

Unions have too much power?
Well they have no more power than the big companies and the bosses organisations but certainly represent a lot more people!

Isn't it strange how the sacrifices always have to come fro one side, haven't seen the likes of the Vostand of Daimler Benz or whatever having to look forward to a life on the poverty line.

"Poverty" meaning, in the European definition of having less than (I think) 50% of the average income. (I think mean average)

The 42h is not what appears in the contract that usually states something between 35 to 40h but the average time that people really spend at work. Obviously this also depends on the industry, 42 being the average.

I have a state contract as a Beamte here in Munich. It states 42 hours per week, but unfortunately I must put in well above that in actual hours.

My company actually love me, as I am the only one that does anywhere near 40 hours a week, plus am willing if required to work weekends and evenings. If you want to work weekends here you have to get the Betriebsrat to approve it.

Bloody crazy if you ask me, if I say yes, then surely that must be OK ?

well, but then if some single mother is asked to work weekends because everyone does and she declines, whom do you think they'll try and sack? It might be annoying to some, but it's meant as a protection to others.

selbershuld

germany was the driving force for eu expansion and integration.
now the german people are slowly reaping the benefits from it - they are up against 'hungrier' people in the job market.
i wonder how much they long for there 1970s and 1980s utopia. as cher said 'if i could turn back time'...

why would a multinational company open a factory in germany when you can do it with less hassle in poland or the czech rep? can anyone answer that?

Saw something on UK telly recently that productivity per head was higher in Germany and France than in the UK.

So the average UK worker does longer hours but in the end produces the same GDP per head. UK is just less efficient basically.

But why then is the UK growing at 3-4% per year, when growth in Germany is at a stand still ?

Although the answer to that is probably the British people are not so geizig.

Although the unemployment in Britain is at a record low 4.7%

"Mc Jobs" in UK on low pay and with crap conditions.
How many people have a few quid left over for a pint when they want it in the UK ?

The costs of Poland and Czech Rep etc are already climbing. A lot of people have landed on their arses thiinking they could move everything from W Europe there.

Like the situation in all of germany, the situation is industry and demographicly influenced. A lot of TT people are lucky enough to be in a good industry / democraphic. It doesn't give us carte blanche to piss all over our neighbours.

Another interesting item to look at is savings rates… some numbers from mid-2004
Germany 10.4%
France 12.2%
Japan 6.4% (was 15.1% in 1991)
USA 4%
Now two questions… all these poor, exploited, underpaid Germans must be pretty crafty to manage to put away over 10% into savings (though would explain much of the behavior I see at the Plus market)… so if they (on average) can save so much then would that suggest that they're (on average) being paid too much (and the French as well).
And/Or - shouldn't/couldn't they spend more to ignite the economy? Consumer spending in the US is 2/3 of the economy so consumers make a big difference. It seems that the German government likes to play Mom and the folks are happy being led so why not a drive to simulate the consumer segment. I don't think they run too big of a risk in having US consumer debt level issues anytime soon.
They could also start by making it easier for the consumer to spend their cash… personally I have several thousand Euros of purchases to make that I don't because it simply just sucks to shop here (I'd rather take the hassle to buy it back home or just do without). Between opening hours, customer service, etc they really seem like they don’t care if the economy is stimulated or not.
Just observations/questions… I am far from an economics expert and my view is biased towards a US consumer view (and I don't think all debt is bad).

A UK worker does more hours to produce same number of widgets. Basically they work harder to achieve the same. So they get there - but its more hard work.

The above is a can of worms but of course part of this is a vicious circle. An economy running the costs of supporting 12% unemployment is gonna be fucked compared to one running 4.7%. Obviously made worse by the fact that German benefits to the unemployed are so high.

How did Germany get to this position? Well historical strong unions, high benefits, akward labour laws, cross-border competition, and reunification have all influenced.

Confidence of course also has a part to play. Let's not kid ourselves - Germany is a very rich country...but right now consumers are not spending.

Maybe all those savings is why the banks are making a killing here? I assume that most Germans keep there money in a bank or other safe, low-yield instruments.

Yeah, It's devastating to see a country like germany that craves a utopia, plummeting do to lack of jobs... I read some where once that germany was one the most the intelligent countries in the world, if there so smart why can they fix umemployee... The make up for about 31% of EU GDP and if inflation grow up at less it's good for the dollar...

Also, My girlfriend's brother lost his job about two month ago.. I think he was working in constuction and is having really hard time finding something there in Munich... It really hard to see that so many people have no job.

Good point - in the UK if you have a 95% mortgage and £10,000 outstanding on your credit card then you go on holiday or buy a new TV!

Could say that the average German worries too much about money do you think?

The reason the supermarkets over here are full of tedious, tasteless crap is because no-one would spend the money if offered something more interesting.

I agree this guy... Good thing now for all you with some extra buy some german bonds, because as the inflation go's up in german... The Interest rate on the bonds goes down and you get a better yield... You could have some good money in five or ten year...

You want to try living in Munich on say EUR 750 / Month dole money to cover EVERYTHING then tell me it is generous!

People need to spend to get the economy moving BUT:

a) They are scared of losing their bs so they save money.
b) They are scared about the pensions rip-offs from the government so they save money
c) they are scred the government is lying to them as it has proved to have been in the past so they save money.

That applies to governments of both sides.

remember that a LOT of UK / US consumer spending is based on credit and / or crazily rising property prices.

Bubble burts, what then ?

Sorry grtho - just talking generous compared to elsewhere. I wouldnt fancy trying to survive on benefits.

But I thought most people still get something like 80% for the 1st year from their previous salary?

No offence taken.
Oh yeah JE, generous compared to Britain or America for SURE!

You still get a % for the firstyear but after a year you fall VERY rapidly down the pole however much you have paid in in the past.

As for the shops Johhny, could it be that people in Germany don't feel the need for all the tat and baubles that shopers in the UK crave?

I reckon supermarkets are full of garbage here compared to UK, Australia, USA, France, Italy...heck just about any 1st world country is better. If you are vaguely lazy about food (like me) then the semi-made offerings are dull as dishwater...not to mention crap fresh fruit, crap salad and bugger all "foreign" food unless you count frozen pizza!

The theory is, they shouldn't require you to work weekends. If there is too much work for one person to do, they should be hiring more people to do that work, not making the others work overtime. That's the theory. It all falls apart when you realise companies don't hire new workers to do that extra work.

Not having a personal go at you mate!
One of the biggest problems with a "convenience" diet in industrialised countries is that people are eating so much SHITE!

Reformed chicken nuggets, processed veg and washed down with Sunny Deelite!
It's having serious long term health implications.

When I first moved to Germany my local supermarket didn't even sell fresh milk!
Pesto was something you had to g to a specialist Italian shop for or get mates to bring back from Italy. Buy my pesto in my local Chavmarkt now: Plus. So things have VASTLY changed in 10 years.

Name me one unprocessed food product you can't get in Munich you can get in Britain, I bet you'll be hard pressed !

Tescburys & Co have the food market in the UK by the bollocks, it might look like choice but by driving down farmagate prices and keeping the savings as their profits and destroying independent retailing they are in fact offering the consumer less and less choice.

Could you be German by any chance? English supermarkets are full of fresh, yes really fresh vegetables and freshly made dinners which just need a few minutes in the microwave or can be eaten cold (try Marks & Spencers or Tesco's). Today I saw mould on the veg. in Tengelmann and black mushy holes in the peppers - unheard of in Tesco's. It is true - I save my shopping for the UK and Italy where the assistants are wearing clean clothes and are friendly and helpful. I have even "smelled" some of the older women at the supermarket tills here in summer -ugh! I guess consumer spending hasn't stretched to personal hygiene sometimes.

totally agree with you nicky.
people here bury their heads in the sand when it comes to admitting things are not what they should be and always say 'but in the uk...'

Yeah... I agree with waht Nicky wrote... In the USA and UK you have more access to fresh Fruits and Veggies. You have a bit a lot more products on the market...

I really can't give a strong opinion on Germany because I have been there yet, but I be in Munich in less then two week and is interesting hear how people feel about the life style of the German markets. My girlfriend is from Bavaria and she's always telling in Munich things are the best, you can find and buy anything you want. I don't think so now...

It's will sad to hear that one the most important country to the EU is selling shite to the people living in the country. It sound almost like third world country...

It's shite when people can't find a job and with the money the do have to shite food... Way to germany!!!

One last comment - I work with the unemployed and I often hear them say companies don't create "Arbeitsplätze" or that they want a "job". But interestingly few of them want "to work". I suspect a lot of them want a desk and a title, to be there from 8 - 4 pm, but not to actually "work" in the sense of producing something tangible. Very, very few of them realise what is involved in working in IT or even in being self-employed. The majority place great importance on starting early and getting home early, especially on Fridays. However, "Monday morning" is an excuse not to be productive, as is just after lunch (a cooked meal in a canteen is indispensable), or again after 3 pm, which is too late. If you deduct Friday afternoons plus eight weeks' annual holiday plus public/religious holidays and the extras like Fasching, not much of the year is left! Doctors' appointments are always during working hours - it never occurs to them to go in the evenings. One even took the morning off to have the meters read. Supposedly they want to work in an office, yet their hair has often not seen a comb in months ... Of course, I see motivated people too, but strangely enough, these usually find a job ...

Nicky I aslo have to agree with you on that one...

Everyone wants the name or Title but no one wants to really work... Just get a pay check on friday and call it a weekend and then when their fired siting around wondering why...

They take a two hour lunch break and expect to go back to and still have a job... Because they think the boss would never fire me... Them his say good-bye, they kill him for their misconduct...

You've been here less than 2 weeks and have the whole work mentality figured out eh?

Well, to be fair to the unemployed, that is what a job is like here, if you work for the post office, the university, or the government. How many times have you gone to some office to find the person you need to talk to is at lunch (at 10:30), or on vacation or having kaffee und kuchen, or simply, inexplicably, absent? I haven't been paid for three months because my contract was wending its way through the University's bureaucratic channels (i.e. sitting under some secretary's coffee cup), and this is the second time that's happened in three years at this job. I even got a letter from the Bezügestelle titled "Abmeldung wegen Ende der Beschäftigung" last week - they haven't heard about me in so long, they just assumed I didn't work there anymore.

There are a lot of jobs here whose holders do not seem to understand that something is expected from them in exchange for the money that appears in their bank account every month.

Not that I'm bitter or anything.

No, but my girlfriend has lived there 23 years and she depressed about it because she almost loss her job and her brother loss his job about 3 months back. I have read and study a lot about what's going in Munich and the whole of germany because I 'm thinking about getting marry to this girl and she wants me to come to Munich and live, but I really don't think so now...

I not saying I have everything figured out but I was just trying to hear about the problems in germany with umemployment on a first hand bases... My girlfriend wants me to come to a place way even the people living in the country can't find work... I want to eating out her hands or the goverments hand... I would like make use of knowlegde I have paid for in the us, if I have to live in Munich with her..

You don't have to worry about the people living in the country finding work. You only have to worry about yourself finding work.

Errrrrm, whatever made you think I'm German Nicky?

You can get 101 ready made meals in Tescos and M+S or wherever.
They are not as popular in Germany. And ?

Uniformed, pristine fruit and veg is seen as being more appealing to customers or customers want it more in the UK than in Germany. And?

If you see food that is badly stored, out of date or unfit for consumption or you have a complaint about the staff, talk to the store manager. Customer service IS improving in Germany and you can only help it improve by playing your part. Comlain when it goes wrong, but also be nice to the staff when it goes right.

And those old chesnuts: The "unemployed don't want to work", "those who are employed have it too easy". Will someone change the friggin Thatcherite record on Toytown?

I don't have to worry about work for myself because in the mix of it all, I really don't care to work in Germany, but they help poor people to much. I think if one has to eat he has to work for it... I prefer to work in Spain or Portugal with a people with a more warth... Germans are to cold for me and they don't have much presents. I just worried about my girlfriend and her family because they are german and in the end they last out... I will always be able to find a job in the States because it's my homeland... And all though the dollar is down it will soon make a gain before every person in germany has a job...

Thank you Mauricio!

You can judge a society by how it treats its weakest members.

@grtho

supermarkets, farmer's markets, local grocery shops, in the UK and USA are so much better than here. you know that. i would rather pick up a uniformly shaped red pepper than one that is falling apart in my hands. complain to a store manager? because he will really give a toss. the only places that would take an interest are small local shops, family businesses, and do we do all our shopping there? no, because it is twice the price of a supermarket.

as for the german consumer not being interested in pre-packaged food, check out the numbers of miniMALs popping up all over town. these stores are nice little places that even pre-package most of the fruit and veg for you, and have microwave curries... for all that they are cleaner, better maintained and more welcoming than the stalinst stores that they are replacing!

in any case maurico should come over because munich is, despite high unemployment and that, a great place to live. from reading this thread you'd think we had to take time off from our 25 hour a week jobs to wait in a bread queue. if you have skills, you will find work. the situation is not so easy as several years ago, but if you bring relevant skills, and some language skills are part of this, you will find decent employment. you might not be on the board of BMW, but there is work out there.

@grtho

I don't buy into this myth that part-prepared meals in the UK supermarkets are poisonous junk food. You can go to Tesco or Marks and buy for example a fresh chicken breast that has been stuffed with cheese and ham etc...it will be as good if not better than making the same with ingredients available here.

But slightly off topic there. I agree that this right-wing "If you want a job get on your bycycle and find one" is insensitive and incorrect. For sure there will be some skivers but with unemployment up over 10% the majority of these people genuinely cannot find a job.

@ Latecomer, well I usually send the tennants shopping innit!

I'm not saying everything is perfect in Germany just we need to stop seeing things in Britain through rose tinted spectacles.

The LONGEST check-out queues I have been in for years (20 or more shoppers, no new tills being openend etc) was at errrrrrrm Tengelmann, Edeka, HL ? No, effing bloody Tescos in Bristol! (But I'll be in there next week for me Branston and gravy like )

British supermarket staff, what an effing joke. they might want to pack your shopping but take for effing EVER, much slower than doing it yourself. they manage 4 items to a bag tops and through tins on top of your eggs.

I was buying a parsnip at home and the bloke goes what's this?
Cos he didn't know what a PARSNIP is! It's hardly the most exotic veggie is it, we've been eating the bloody things in Britain longer than spuds even! So I goes it's a parsnip and he couldn't find it on the list cos the bloke on the checkout didn't know how to spell the names of basic foodstuffs!

(That's not a slag off of people who have reading problems etc but still)

Topic split by admin: Supermarket comparisons: UK vs. Germany, Which do you prefer?

Had one of those curries for the first time last night (chicken tika masala I think) . It wasn't too bad, but I wasn't so impressed as to buy one regularly. On the other hand, I feel obliged to buy some more, so the store computer notices the curries are selling, and they don't take them out of the range... I'm hoping that by supporting this small offering now, we'll see more curry choice in supermarkets here over time!

Did I hear correctly on the radio that the rate this month in Bavaria is 20% higher than 12 months ago?

Excellent thread, but I wouldn't expect anything less with grtho commenting.

@Mauricio - welcome. Give Munich a go. Don't know what a Brazilian/American food lover will think, but as a Londoner, I find Munich a good place to live.

Lazy Germans? Obviously I can only speak from direct experience. I work in a large German organisation, and it is a walk in the park compared to London. We are actually unable to get into the office over weekends, and after 7.30 p.m. the front door is locked. Everyone takes a full lunch break and most lights are off by 8 p.m.

I think my colleagues would wilt in Japan, England or America.

Then again, they aren't paid as much.