Requirements for getting permanent residency

hi. i have a question regarding my visa status. i came to germany in june (or maybe july) 2004 on tourist visa to be with my now husband (soon to be ex :-), and got married in october that year. i went to the ausländerbehörde in may 2006 because my passport was expiring, and they extended the visa till may 2009. the law changed in 2005 (or was it 2006) that you have to take integrations course before you can apply for a permanent residency, which i had no clue till they told me in 2006. so i went ahead and took the course, and, one month before i was to complete the course, i separated from my husband. at that point, i was already married to him for 3 years and 2 months, and it was only the matter of one month before i completed my course to be eligible for permanent residency.

that was january last year. and, when i went to the ausländerbehörde (in a small town where i used to live) to report the change of my status, the woman there told me that my visa will be renewed without a problem in 2009 even if i was arbeitslos, it would be just a bit shorter than if i had a permanent job, but i would not be kicked out of the country because of arbeitslosness. since that time, i had neben jobs here and there, but not really a proper job up till now.

and a few days ago, i had an appointment with a social worker at "Verband binationaler Familien und Partnerschaften", and she told me that unless i have a fest arbeit earning 1100€ (or 1200) a month netto, they could decide not to extend my visa. she said even having 3 neben jobs earning as much would not help because there is really nothing written regarding people in a situation like mine, and it is up to the immigration officer. she emphasized that it will be just a matter of luck. and the thing is, i am doing a course in switzerland and UK (i only have to be there several times a year), and i would not be able to work more hours than i do now.

she also said that it wouldn't matter if i am going through divorce now, it would mean the same to the immigration office if i was separated or divorced...

and, i would have stayed in germany for 5 years already by october if i were to count from the date of marriage (and if they do not kick me out till then), and i guess i can then apply for permanent residency? or, can i count from the date of arrival on the tourist visa?

the social worker was incredibly nice, but, i am a bit confused because i really did not even bother to worry about this till she told me...

does anyone know anything to help me?

thanks, potato

It is my understanding that to get permanent residency in Germany, you need to pay into the social security system for 60 months (5 years). I don't think it is enough to have just lived here for that length of time.

the question of permanent residency for persons in partnership (ehegemeinschaft) is different, and does not require 60 months of paying into the social security system. the limits though are - for Niederlassungserlaubnis (permanent residency 3 years and to obtain German citizenship 5 years. In both cases, residence in Germany in Married partnership with one of the partners being a German citizen.

I know it is too late now, but IMO you made a mistake with the integration course thing. AFAIK you were not obliged to take it, the law applied only to people arriving after 2005. I did not take it.

Are you sure about the 2005 rule? There were people in my integration class who have lived here over 15 years and they were given requirement to attend the course in accordance to their visas. Or thats at least what everyone told me!

AFAIK, for people arriving before 2005 it was up to the Beamter if you were required or not to do the integration course. The thing used to be very informal, in the AB and they gave you a newspaper or magazine and 20 minutes to read a page, then you had to describe in your own words what you had read. When I applied for mine I asked about it and the person said it was not needed at all, I could follow the conversation the whole time so my German was good enough. My wife did not have to do the integration test either (we were not married yet). We both applied for NE after 2005.

Again, I am talking from my own experiences, I know other people have been required to take the course, but that was normally when you did not speak more than a couple of words. The OP was very close to finish the integration course when she fulfilled the 3 years requirement, so I assume by then she had already some German language commanding.

Yea buts that pretty weird. One of the people had an excellent command on german, and spent most of the classroom discussions arguing back and forth in very fluent bavarian. His writing abilities were very bad, the same for me. We both tested out of three levels but almost failed on the writing segments. I wasn't required to take the course (Im EU), but had the opprotunity and the time so I took it anyway and it helped a bunch. I think its great that they offer something like this.

in my class as well. there were immigrants from kosovo (spell?) who has been here over 10 years, and who also spoke what seemed to me then almost fluent german... they told me they had to take the course.

thanks people for your input. but i forgot to add another question. I just do not get it why the immigration officer in another small town told me a year ago (after consulting her boss), that i would not have a problem extending my visa, no matter how much money i would be making. she emphasized the point that germany would not kick out such people who already has the base of her life here like that... and the social worker (who seems to be very efficient, and seems to know her stuff) now tells me that i need to have a festarbeit earning at least 1100€ netto to be allowed to stay. and it does not seem to count how many years i was married for at all, since that is only a past, and not the present...

and what is even more confusing (annoying!) is that, at the restaurant i am working at the moment, they got two auslanders work permit as a waitress and a cook (one last summer, and one this month), and they have no previous experience in gastronomy, and their netto salary is 700€ (they have to work more than 50hrs/week). they are even allowed to take the integrationskurs for 1€/hour if they can afford to take time off work. and why would someone who is living here for almost 5 years, costing the state nothing, needs to show that she has a festarbeit with netto salary of 1100€ (and not 3 nebenjobs and earning more than that?)???

thanks,

potato

The social worker who visited us when our daughter was born gave us totally wrong information about Elterngeld, and she was supposed to be the kind of person who knows about it. So, I would not trust everything they say. It might be worth to confirm from some other source if she is right or not.

Yea, it sounds like you need to definitely get a second opinion. When she said, 'there are no written regulations for your situation' I don't understand who she can then quote you salary requirements. They can't kick you out when you can't go home and have everything here. Unless you are causing lots of trouble.

the social worker was so sure of herself without being condescending, and so i took all the words she said seriously... another thing i remember now that did not make sense to me then, was that, she said it takes only 2 years before you can get permanent residency if you marry a german. i heard repeatedly from the people at the auslandersbehörde as well as friends that it is 3 years (i got this info from the lady at the auslandersbehörde exactly one year ago)... does anyone know if they changed it from 3 years to 2 years, and if this is the case, when did they change that? (i did ask this woman this, but she just told me that it is so now)

and also, is there anywhere i can get second opinion on this (other than going to the auslandersbehörde directly)? while i am in search of a fulltime job still, i prefer to go there when i can tell them that i have a real job...

thanks,

potato

I would call directly and ask these questions. Try to avoid the worker again. You can always get wrong information. My sense is that they are just trying to make you believe you have to leave, and will eventually do it. It saves them eventual costs for the state, in case they have to support you if you want to stay. I have also constantly heard that 3 years is the time when married, and this being for any foreigner.

thanks sushified, but i just do not get it. although this organization gets funding from the state, she emphasized that it is not a state organization, is independent from any influence from the state, and is working in order to help the bi-national (cultural) families (and persons who went through it recently, i guess). and she even offered to call the auslandersbehörde if they decide not to extend my visa on some stupid ground because she (and the organization) has good relationship with the auslandersbehörde... one thing she mentioned though, was not to get a lawyer on this because that will piss off the immigration officers... is there anywhere other than auslandersbehörde who might have info on this? the thing is, if what she said is true, that the immigration officers extend or not extend visas based on their" feelings", i might as well wait till the last minute instead of feeling doomed for the next 3 months... even if they decide to extend it, they can change their decision any time... unless there is something i can do if they decide not to extend... i thought immigration is a bit more... black and white??? i really feel my case is not that complicated that there is no written rules...

Yea just from reading what you say she said to you, it's clearer and clearer she is trying to get you to give up living here and leave without getting the visa. If both places have a very 'special' relationship I'm they are also contracted or try to cut down on people extending visas to naturally cut down on foreigners who stay in the county and eventually receive benefits...

Her saying to know get a lawyer because it just pisses people off is so ridiculous. Getting a lawyer also pisses people off, because they do their job and will help you. If you feel like you have to fight this, and it's that worthwhile for you then just hire one. But don't hire anyone they recommend. Continuing your research online is a good place to really learn about the rules, etc. Your situation has probably happened more often then you think, but no one talks about it.

I need to head to the KVR for hopefully the very last time :-) for my perm permit (5 yr).

With all the recent changes, is there an updated list of what you need to take with you?

Thanks