German language exam/test for foreign children

Dear TTs,

My son started his school here in Munich last year,
and now he is in his 2nd class.
He speaks perfectly German,
but still he have some problems with understanding.

What I mean is,from time to time they have kind of Exams,
Named 'Lesen und Verstanden' (I think)- Read and understand.

Most or even all of his scores are lousy.
He also complain that he does not understand all the things,
the teacher explain him.

I must say that with other topics like Mathematics,English (he is not Native) he is really good.
So the problem is just with German.

Probably you will say talk to the teacher,
We did it,but seems she is not believe him,
as she says "he understand everything".

Colleague of mine have a daughter with the same age,
going to the Public school,mine is at Private one,
He told me that at school they made kind of exam to determine,
her German level and according to that the school provide her
special help with German.
As I understood it a law/role whatever you name it,
that foreigners need to have this exam and its a duty of the school,
providing extra help with German if the kid need that.

I have a meeting with the School Manager next week,
and as i was reading other threads,Germans acting differently if you show them
the roles.

Do you aware of this kind of role?
Could someone point me to a web page or even let me know where could I find that?
I want to print and show that to the Manager once meeting her.

Thanks for your help.

If it's a private school and not a state alternative, they really do not have to do what the state schools do and can set their own ways of doing things. I wouldn't expect your son to be able to read and write so well in what is to him a foreign language by grade 2 and it is perfectly normal that his speaking is better at this stage. I certainly wouldn't expect him to complete an exam or test to the same level as a native speaker in his grade or even to do the same test. Children can communicate well within around 2 years of learning a language but it takes on average 5 to 7 years to catch up academically in that language. You say his scores are lousy but compared to whose?

You need to ask what are the school's expectations of a child of your son's age after such a short time learning German and what they do, or what is the school action plan, for helping children like him. I wonder how they differentiate and how they teach children who aren't native German. Or even if they do at all.

Is that a song?

Krieg that was wonderful.

If he's at a private school do you not have enough money to hire a tutor?

LOL. I'd love to hear the tune. Nice Krieg!

Why does the teacher not believe that he does not understand? Can she explain her reasoning?

If the German programme was effective enough, there'd be no need for a tutor.

Kazalphaville,good points you mentioned I will take it with me.

I think 2-3 point out of 15 its a lousy scores,don't you think so?

sushfied,Not all the private schools here are cost like the international one in Starnberg ...(much much less than Euro 20k or so)
And yes I invested in my son before his 1st year at school, by giving him private lessons and German summer school.

Just to clear it out,we choose this Private school as its give extra topics which keeps my kids
(my 2nd one is at the same place but in the kindergarten)
knowing our religion and our Holy days.

Our (English) friends daughters have both been given extra support in German at the Grundschule. For them, it seems, there was a period of time where the bilingual bit
actually hindered more than it helped. The school stepped up quickly - and these are children that were both born in Germany, to parents who speak fluent German etc etc.

If you want I can ask the mum if the help was given under a specific programme?

It's certainly helped the girls. The eldest is off to a Gymnasium in autumn and the younger looks set to follow next year.

Good luck with your son.

D

http://www.schulamt-muenchen.musin.de/inde...e&Itemid=12

1. Above link if you think it might be useful.
2. My kid (year 1 state primary) was entitled to 90 minutes of 'German for non germans' all of last year whilst in Kindergarten. (I asked about the provision on advice of German friend who said it was statuory. The local school organised it and it was free).
3. Child tested twice by school before going (shapes, colours, numbers, storytelling from pictures, conversation- what's your dream?!)
4. Child tested now on maths and basic words/identify letters/match sentences and pics but no long reading comps or diktat. (only just learning to read)
5. Thought private schools still had to follow state remit for providing support for non-germans. If not consult Schulamt.
6. If your child speaks fluently then maybe that's why extra/Übergang not needed, if it is reading age and written instructions that are problematic that will come with practise (German reading is phonetic but still hard) if it is listening to German that's hard then extra tuition is appropriate (special tutor in my kid's school for new students with limited german).
7. Have you seen the tests themselves - do you understand the requirements? if not ask.
8. Insist that your child is not fully understanding instructions hence the low scores in that area (but do not worry unnecessarily, it is only year 2!) that said if you are wanting Gymnasium in the future best nip any problems in the bud although I think non germans get some consideration for the points boundaries for getting in but do not know the details.

Hope the meeting goes okay. No idea whether you speak German yourself - if not do not be afraid of asking for a translator or have a friend go with you...

Good luck xx

Have read on their website and there is no mention of how German is taught. If he's scoring 2/3 out of 15 then you really need to know if he is doing the same test as a German native speaker, in which case the scores are not surprising. If he's in a differentiated class, then I would question the teacher's claim that he does understand everything as the tests should also be differentiated and thus he obviously is not understanding or has test angst. He may be in grade 2 but we are only half way through the year so he's really not so far past grade 1 at the moment.

For example, in one school I worked in English was also the language of instruction, as in Starnberg, but the children also had German every day. There were three differentiated classes - beginners, intermediate and German native speakers. However, I have also worked in a school where the non-native German speakers were taught using the same material as the German natives and also did the same tests and the teacher wondered why their scores were low. She even admitted that the ones they got correct, in some cases, were where they had just guessed the right answer. In some schools (and I'm not saying that's the case here) the teachers have little or no experience of teaching German as an additional or foreign language and have little access to materials for this. However, German teachers have the added advantage that we are in a German context and the playground and social language is probably German so children obviously will pick up the language faster through immersion in that respect. This though is different to academic language and expectations in the classroom.

As I said, communication comes quickly and a teacher may think a child is ready for the academic stuff but it takes on average 5 to 7 years to catch up academically in a foreign language and so expectations should be differentiated for this. This is the case in the EAL department in many schools and in the school you are talking about. I would definitely ask about levels of support and differentiation in teaching and tests for children who are not native speakers of German and just what exactly the teacher expects he should be able to do at this stage.

From my understanding working in a private state alternative international school, as Starnberg is, the German tests on entry and hours of support given are not a requirement in a private school like they are in state schools but it won't harm to ask about it. Any school worth its salt should have a support programme in place anyway.

Good luck!

Oh okay sorry I didn't know it was for religious reasons, I thought you just had him in the international school. Because then there must be some way to afford a private tutor after school once a week.

There seems to be other options sponsored by the state so I think that's your best bet. I hope it all works out.

If he gets low scores in the tests but the teacher believes he understands everything it may be worth looking closer at where the difficulty is. One possibility is that it is only the reading that presents difficulty while his listening and speaking skills are on a similar level to the other kids. Alternatively he may be understanding a lot but not everything and the teacher hasn't realised this because he answers questions and completes other tasks well. What does he say about his German classes, does he understand everything the teacher says? Does he find it easy to communicate with other German speaking children? Does he enjoy reading in other languages? If you can understand exactly where the problem is it is easier to identify if extra help is needed and what.