Discrimination at the Kultfabrik discos

Ok first about me.

I am a 28 year old/young guy of Indian origin working as Senior SAP Consultant at Deutsche Telecom. I have recently come to Munich(1st week Dec 04) and this is my first visit to this Country. I am of medium height(5'9) and lean built and more importantly do not at all look like the troublemaker type.

My experiences of he few visits to the Kultfabrik party area Ostbahnoff were not very enjoyable.
On 24th Dec I had gone along with 2 of my coulleges. We were refused entry by "Freuderhaus" stating that this is a party for members only.
There were not many clubs open that day and we went to "Matador".

On 25th Dec we had more such experience. We were refused entry by "Freuderhaus" with same reasons.? American Bar", "Rafel" gave us the worst treatment by a direct "no-entry" on face and on questioning gave us no answer, instead were almost shoved to the side of entrance. And two more(do no rem names) also did not allow us in.
Our conclusion was that maybe coz we do not have any female member in our group that we were refused.

On 31st our group compromised of 2 male and a female (all of Asian origin).
But till the treatment was same from the above named Clubs 1e. "Freuderhaus", "American Bar", "Rafel" and ??

Though not to forget to mention that we had an wonderful time at "Matador", "Kalina", "Living 4" on respective dates.

Can you people pls advise as to which places to avoid... Ps.: do not tell me to avoid dancing...I love it.

Sorry you're having this experience, I've heard it from a few people unfortunately. Ravski used to go clubbing a lot I think before he left us (), maybe he'll write where he went, I can't remember where he went, though... And the Indian Stammtisch went to 8 Seasons once or twice on a Saturday night, I believe, but I don't what kind of music they play or anything. Good luck

sorry, can't see the racial discrimination here. maybe you could explain exactly why you feel this was racial discrimination?

Thanks Topsy for the support & info...

Hi Owain. The feel bad factor was not that we were refused.. but people who were directly behind us were allowed at one of the places. We did some observations... at "Freuderhaus" it was wether u could speak German or not.. wheras at "American Bar" it was simply anyone with dark coloured skin..
Hope u undestand that it is more of a emotional beating...

understand now. wasn't obvious from your first post where you saw the racism. People get refused entry all the time from night clubs in munich on the basis of "your face doesn't fit" but what you describe def sounds like racism.

Behind the doors 9 out of 10 of us is a racist, a reverse-racist or at least discriminatory and prejudiced towards one catagory or the other-- some more, some less. Deny all you want but that is the fact of life. The perfect world in which some want to live only exists in fantacies so deal with the emotional beatings and live on.

What you experienced is not unusual in Munich. I haven't met a person in Munich who hasn't been turned away from some club or the other particularly during special days like new year's. That includes native germans- both men and women.

It may or may not have racial undertones but bouncers in munich look for a few things. You will not have much problem

1. If you look like someone who would shove a couple of twenties into his pocket. Not looking like a troublemaker isn't enough. Money talks.
2. If you are accompanied by a few chicks who are dressed for the club scene and you look like someone who would pay your way in to impress and splurge at the club. Simply having a chick in the group is not gonna help.

Kultfabrik is particularly notorious for it. I was there a year ago for 2004 new year with 2 German girls and a guy and we were not let in into the first club but no problem with second.

If you know the bouncer personally, it is ofcourse always easier. There are only four places I frequent to in Munich-- Pacha, Penthouse (both places I go with people who know the guys at the gate so never a problem), Soul city and Mufathalle (no problem even if you wanna go alone). Also went to 8 seasons once but again knew the guys at the gate through someone.

I do not know much about the other clubs but I wouldn't give business to anyone who gives me attitude at the door. You don't need them and they don'yt need you and that is how it is. End.

Not to be proud of it, but got turned away from 8 seasons and another club near Isartor 2 nights back. Had a english bloke with me. Got turned away from the door with a polite but firm 'members only night'. Must say though the girl who turned us away at 8 seasons was awfully cute. I think I had an email address from a friend where they put you on the guest list. There is too much of a Chicy mickey attirude here in Munich. Was walking down Maxmillian strasse yesterday..with all the Chic crowd in their designer clothes..doing their weekly shopping in their carreras, sipping coffee at cafe roma. Frankly, I hate it!

But the best thing is..Go to 4004. They don't have very strict entry criteria..many dance floors, music is ok and crowd is fairly decent.

Speaking as a person who works in munich nightclubs:

Racism doesn't actually come into it, It's all about how the person presents themselves in front of the bouncer.
You can always get in , If you do not look like a scary hard bastard who could take a couple of bouncers, the reason that you are not allowed in is because your face does not fit. The way to make your face fit is the following:

1) Your clothes - If you are wearing clothes of a too conservative nature : ie You look like a geography teacher - they won't let you in

2) Who you are with - Too many men and no clubbing honey's -You ain't getting in.

3) Your attitude - If you are drunk or appear not to know what the music policy/vibe of the night is. They don't want you.

So basically, if you do not fit the above criteria, work on those, and you will have no problem getting into clubs. In the case of point 2, if there are not enough women with you, then wait till some come along and grab them by the arm and go in with them - and you never know- it might lead to more later!

hope your clubbing improves - and may I suggest that you aim to go to some more varied clubs than the mainstream offerings in Kultfabrik. There are many great clubs in munich worth investigating, with really great music. Enjoy!

not strictly true. race does come into the selection quite often. Türkish looking men will have problems getting into a number of chiccy micky places in munich, and not based on the factors you mentioned.

true, but it's not actually their race 'per se' - it's how they look.- If they are turkish and friendly looking - then walk right in. If they are turkish and wearing a baseball cap and walking wonky like a gangsta - then no go.

this musz mean that all turkish people are of the latter kind.

If you are talking about shickimickey clubs then yeah, I agree with you wholeheartedly - but this dude is talking about Kultfabrik.

Some clubs here aim to attract a specific clientele if you don't look like you fit then they will turn you away.

Similarly if they think you look like trouble they will turn you away.

A while back we had a big TT night out, we ended up in Alabamahalle, not the classiest of places but good fun. The first club we tried to get in to was 'Festspielhaus' - we could see inside the place was dead and I mean dead, at most 2 or 3 people in there. The bouncer saw us coming and turned away at least 40 people from the club and the reason...we were too sporty?? Not that any of us were decked out in football shirts or trainers.

I sometimes wonder in the owners of the clubs are aware of the business they lose due to their bouncers taking a dislike to a random couple of people.

See if you can find an email adress for the management and fire them off an email.

This is not actually a bad idea, a while ago I went to the 8 Seasons with some colleagues most of whom (me included) didn't really want to be there, the guy organising rang the 8 Seasons and got us on a guest list which meant even though it was obvious the bouncer didn't really want to let us in he had to:))

I also got rejected by several clubs including 4004 with a cousin where we thought we met the criteria required to get in.

What pissed me off was there there were wankers who were getting in who do not clearly meet the requirements.

However knowing the bouncers does help a lot. Over my time I knew a few bouncers so I do not have to rely on guestlists to get in. It also helps if you know a few DJs as they can not only get you in but for free too.

I was able to get into K41 but then I was told its members only. I then met the bouncer who was a friend of a friend and he now knows me and I was able to get in on a Saturday with no problems if he is there. Titty twister was my regular hangout too but its more gothic music

Lambacs on Wednesday is a good place to get into but you have to dress good for that.

But there is a certain bias towards asian people from my personal experience.

Sorry mate but you still wouldn't get in no where. I've followed your rules and even so a couple of occasions including the only 2 times I went with work I got denied because of the colour of my skin. I've come to this conclusion simply because 3 of my other colleagues were almost dressed the same as me... Oh yeah and first and foremost I don't act/look like a bad boy, lol

well that sucks! I was making my observations on the fact that I have a few turkish mates who go clubbing every week, and they never seem to have a problem as far as I know- but obviously there is a problem out there in munichland!

Sometimes the bouncers don't want too many people of one race in the club, and if you come late, they may just turn you away because they have reached their 'quota' of certain people. As I said before, if you try and go to clubs where people are there to hear quality music rather than either pose or just get pissed, you might have more luck - and hear some good music in the process!

i tend to be in agreement with Worm although the discrimination thing is always at the back of mind in Munich compared to other cities I go clubbing in Germany such as Cologne ...those cities feel much more free and easy ! In Munich there are more venues out there than you think ... which do not follow this stereotypical view of clubs in the city ...you need to seek out and destroy !!!

Went to Club 4004 yesterday and saw that they were refusing entry to anyone who was basically non-white! Even groups which had equal male to female ratio. The only reason that I was able to get in (I am Indian) was because I went with a German group. So, I would not say that racism does not come into play.

Anyways, we should organize a TT Clubbing event for every alternative weekend or something. Any takers?

Cheers,
xargy

Hi bros,
why you bother with stupid, expensive, out of everything and tasteless clubs in Munich?
My advise:
take a train/bus/car and go to Prague for the weekend. There try clubs like Duplex, Roxy, Radost FX, Defile, Studio54, Matrix, Mecca, Le Clan ...
I put a link with a list of the clubs, so you can chooose your favourite.
There is also MP3s you can download and check what sort of music the DJs are playing.
http://www.technisco.cz/index.php?part=club (The clubs in CZ)
http://www.technisco.cz/index.php?part=parties (Party list)
http://www.rave.cz/party/ (Another party list)
Guaranteed entertainment from Friday afternoon until Sunday 3PM NON_STOP!!! Where clubs are closing at 6AM others are opening at that time. Example is Studio54, opens at 5:30 AM on Saturday morning, the DJs are changing every 2 hours, and the music is simply the best.
Nobody will ever ask you for your skin or anything else in these places, in some of theme you can even sleep if you want (http://www.leclan.cz).
The music is top quality, very far from anything crap they're playing here in Munich. I am myself a part-time DJ and I know very well what I am talking about.
Expenses: with a good budjeting all thing will cost you as much as the weekend here in Munich and you will have an unforgetable weekend.
Oh, and one thing worth to mention of course is that you may get lucky with one of these super beautifull Czech girls you have only seen in your dreams. And if not, no girl is gonna shut you down in anyway like the German cows here in Munich. Czech girls can be also good friends
and don't let your mind thing anything stupid. They're simply honest and very fair.
I've been living for over half a year in Munich and fortunately I have spend only one weekend in this city - well no need to say it was the lousiest one in the past half a year. Went to a place, called Hackebryck something, to listen the same music my mom was listening - very contradictory though since the place was full of kids.

P.S. Don't go to places like La Fabric or Celnice. They are owned by Germans and guess what they're doing in the entrance ...
Take my advice mate and you'll remember me for that.

Cheers
Clark.K

Yeah, I go clubbing in Prague often , and I can thoroughly recommend it! Studio 54 is my favourite club in the whole world, but I was told by a girlfriend of mine who lives there that it has been closed down!? Apparently they now have the studio 54 djs playing at mecca I think?

And the women...

Ok, so they're down on some people - But you got in, right!? So Its as I was saying - play the game and you'll be ok!

(and try not going to places like 4004!)

Actually Studio54 was closed for a while due to renovation. Now the place is even cooler than before, last time I was there I enjoyed even the visit to toilet
Entrance is 100Kc (3,3€) and nowdays the program is announced in advance in several website partylists. There is also a new club opened in Venceslav square oposite to Duplex called Stonx. In their opening they had Ingrid playing and I know this weekend (22/01) there is Danzel. The place is very cool, I have applied for some playtime, so wish me good luck .
Cheers

@Clark, SPOT ON!!!

And I've got ya'll covered.. Check out THIS Thread.

next stop...Prague baby!

@Darkknight: I get your point. Still crap though when you see it happen.

Cheers!
xargon

Good thread. Especially Worms' insider track.

From Day 1 Munich has struck me as a particularly middle class and waspish City. I come from Johannesburg and London and now all about racism and cultural diversity.

I've never been in a place with so few people of colour. The shicky micky mentality, and the general rudeness of the people here gives me the impression that foreigners (especially non-whites) are not welcome.

These are my views. Sorry if anyone disagrees, but this place is simply too twee and exclusivist for in my eyes for words. I'm sorry to say this but I have often felt glad I was white, which is wrong.

Like to drop a few shicky mickeys in Hounslow for an evening. Get the sticks smacked out of their ar$es.

Though I do get a laugh out of the "shicky mickey" (more like Mickey Mouse) types... having lived in Hollywood, New York, SF, London I'm sorry but many of these "wannabes" wouldn't make the F-List in the big city.

@ Anabi

Tell me about it!

It's so annoying when these rude schmucks look at you as you walk into some bar as if you've got sh1t running down your leg. In London they'd be given wrong directions. In Johannesburg they'd get mugged.

Times like this I realise why they feel they need to protect this cosy little cotton-wool world of there's that is Munchen.

Jimbo (at least I think it was Jimbo) and I once tried to get into a club in Kultfabrik despite being 2 white guys who coughed up a several hundred Euro bribe (not that we'd have given it). I think the bouncers are usually just plane dicks but I'm sure some of them are racist/anti-German dicks too.

Just to weigh in here...

Back a long, long time ago, I used to work at Ralph's American Restaurant, and somedays I was forced to done an oversized Lousiana cop's uniform and work the door. I was given explicit orders to not let in the Turkish, Eastern Europeans, groups of men, drunks, and anyone in a football jersey.

Hooligans?

There is absolutely no point in trying to second guess the thoughts going on in a bouncer's mind.

If they were capable of "thought" as we know it they wouldn't be in the job.

Just say to yourself as you get humiliated and turned away from the door "at least I can read" ...

But don't say it too loudly - I know of a few British and American bouncers in this city!!!

@Worm

Sorry mate, didn't mean to offend you. Obviously you can read.

It does vary from club to club though.

Funky Kitchen for instance, I was there with a girlfriend, a mate and his girlfriend. He let the two of us in, but not my mate and his girlie. Now I'm brown, but everyone else was white... clearly NOT racist.

Another occassion, my mates visiting from england (all indian) and myself tried to get into CORD... no go! Now CORD (imho) are definitely racist. Another occasion (soul alnighter) they actually let me in, but they turned a black guy before me blatantly away... ERM what are the roots of soul music again!!!

Anyway, its just a fact of life wherever you go!

LOL! I'm not a bouncer, I was just saying that I know some here in Munich who are English!

(But I have worked as a doorman before, and it is one shitty job! Apart from the sluts, of course )

It might be worth actually calling the bouncer a racist...nice and loudly so everyone around can hear you.

Germans are particularly sensitive to being openly called racist...

deleted, somehow wrong thread!

I don't go to Kultfabrik but back when it was Kunts-park I showed up at one club which was supposedly having hip-hop/r&b night and the asshole bouncer at the door told me it was a private party. I didn't believe him but I didn't make a scene. I have not been back to Kunts-park or Kultfabrik since. I choose to spend my money elsewhere.

Pretty much all the clubs in Kultfabrik are crap anyway.

I once didn't get let into Milchbar shortly after I got to Munich. I asked the bouncer why not and he refused to answer. I gave him a bit of a tirade. Can't remember exactly what I said, but I questioned his upbringing and suggested that his mother didn't teach him any manners.

He didn't quite know how to react, but he still didn't let me in or explain why!!

Once you start arguing with the bouncer you have lost already.
They'll never let you in.
They maybe can't read but they do remember your face even months later.

Perhaps - but not going to Milchbar hasn't been much of a loss to me...

I can also never go to Zweite Heimat ever again, after taunting and then wanting to fight the owner...He also owns Erste Liga - guess I can never go there either. I don't particularly care!!

Don't know about that. I went (after waaaaay tooooo many beers) with a friend. It was summer and we missed our train back and thought we could just hang out there until the next morning. Started to go into a line of twenty people waiting to get into a club, and when we got to the front...no go...he said, you can't wear sandals and shorts to this club. We were not planning on going out, but thought why not try. Anyways, we started making jokes with him and finally he let us in. As I said we were a little drunk, so we are inside (about an hour and a half) and dancing a biiit too wild and we were approached by the head bouncer or owner and said that we can not be there with shorts on, as we were leaving the manager was arguing with the bouncer and said, "How could he let us in with these shoes and pants?" The bouncer winked at us and said, " He thought we may have sneaked in without him seeing us." Anyway...the point is if you keep a friendly attitude with the bouncers, they will let almost anyone in.

@Hazza

Out of interest , where do you tend to go these days without a problem and why?

'The Arc' never gives me any grief!!

No - seriously, these are the only times I've had any issues anywhere

@Hazza, Dammit, and I thought I would gatecrash all the places you go .

TB, Doesn't give any probs. either..

What about Murphy's

Well, you had the misfortune to meet Mark when he was in a pretty bad mood! (Which is often!)

You might be pleased to know that Zweite Heimat is no more - it shut down at the end of the summer.

I have to say that I am amazed that you didn't get into milchbar! I see all kinds of weird and wonderful people in there whenever I go!

And the milchbar bouncer probably isn't the best guy to have an argument with - he accidentally killed a guy who pulled a knife on him a few months back...