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Oktoberfest guards permitted to use force

Police grip valid measure to remove troublemakers

sarabyrd
The County Court in Munich has delivered an important verdict with perfect timing, just days before the Oktoberfest begins: If the security guards use the subduing “police grip” to remove an unwilling patron from a tent they are within the limits of permitted force. A 45-year-old man had vacated the reserved table at the end of his reservation period but was still standing in the aisle with five friends. The guards requested them to leave as they were blocking the thoroughfare. The group refused, tempers began to rise, the guards grabbed the main troublemaker and expedited him from the tent. In the course of this expulsion he suffered a torn ligament in his ring finger and was incapacitated for six weeks.

Ein 45-jähriger Mann hatte zusammen mit vier Bekannten bis 17 Uhr einen Tisch in einem Festzelt reserviert. Anschließend wurden sie gebeten, den Tisch zu räumen. Dieser Aufforderung kamen die fünf nach, blieben aber im Gang des Zeltes stehen. Mehrere Männer des Sicherheitsdienstes forderten die Gruppe immer wieder auf, den Durchgangsbereich zu verlassen, was diese aber nicht taten. Schließlich kam es darauf zunächst zu einem heftigen Wortwechsel. Dann wurde der 45-Jährige von einem Wachmann gepackt und im sogenannten Polizeigriff aus dem Festzelt geführt. Der Wiesnbesucher erlitt dabei einen Strecksehnenausriss: Der rechte Ringfinger schwoll an und schmerzte bei jeder Berührung. Sechs Wochen lang musste der Mann eine Schiene tragen.

His damage claim was now refused by the court. The judge decided, after extensive testimony by eyewitnesses, that the plaintiff, who was visibly intoxicated at the time and showed aggressive behavior, was guilty of trespassing and “illegal empowerment”, i.e. staying put, justifying the guards' decision to remove him forcibly. The plaintiff had been given the opportunity to leave voluntarily and had chosen not to. Furthermore, the injury might have been sustained in his struggle to break free.

Zeugenaussagen hätten ergeben, dass der alkoholisierte und durchaus aggressive 45-Jährige an jenem Abend nur noch durch Gewaltanwendung zum Hinausgehen zu bewegen gewesen sei. "Das Fixieren der Arme auf dem Rücken ist hierzu ein verhältnismäßiges Mittel", erklärte der Richter in seiner Urteilsbegründung. Seine Verletzung dabei könne auch durch die Gegenwehr entstanden sein.

Moral: Preserve drinking time and ability. If security says stop it, stop it. If they say leave, leave. Get their names if you can, get witnesses’ names, complain to the office later, preferably sober and in writing. But avoid physical confrontation, any injury is your own sweet fault.

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Allershausen
Blimey, I'm amazed that it even got to court, I've seen the security people bodily ejecting people loads of times. In fact if it's a fight they take one person in one direction and the other in the opposite one, they don't bother trying to sort out who is to blame!
Owain Glyndwr
It is not unheard of that security goes over the top in their handling of patrons. The security company responsible for the Hippodrome in previous years has lost the contract at short notice because of a complaint made by someone who was "forcibly ejected". One guard was a "bit rough" and the entire company lost out because of it.
Keydeck
I have photos from last year of security laying in the boot to a guy on the ground after taking him out of one of the tents. It's nothing new. They do get out of control from time to time, but to be honest I've no real complaints. I like that they deal with shit quickly and effectively. I'd rather it went over the top from time to time and know that they are there if required.
Kay
I didn't know they'd hired Vladimir Putin to demonstrate the move.
bluedave
Friend of mine got a couple of kidney punches as he was ejected which dropped him to the floor.

To be fair he admitted he was being a twat and probably deserved it.
HellesAngel
From what I've seen of the security guards at the Wies'n they seem to be the ones most likely to cause any guest an injury and would need more regulation not less. While sarabyrd is as eloquent as ever I could see this translated into language security guards would understand as 'we can wack the bastards [us visitors] when we want'. Although they do have a difficult job and have to deal with thousands of twats a day I've also seen many violent, dangerous and unnecessary acts from guards in various tents - including slamming a door shut on one guy's fingers. I've never had a problem with them though as I follow sara's wise advice above, but watched them being very heavy handed for others.
alimess
I was dating a security guard who I had met at the Oktoberfest once ( did not last long though) and he told me stories about how people behave, even women at the Oktoberfest... sometimes the guards HAVE to use violence.
HellesAngel
They may have to use force, which may be required and appropriate but should be carefully controlled, but violence they should never get away with.
sarabyrd
While sarabyrd is as eloquent as ever I could see this translated into language security guards would understand as 'we can wack the bastards [us visitors] when we want'.

Yeah, they won't get the irony.
They may have to use force, which may be required and appropriate but should be carefully controlled, but violence they should never get away with.

Yep, force, as in the title.
BadDoggie
HA, with very few exceptions, they don't want to use violence. They're forced to by the nature of their work. People are unruly, drunk, and some become belligerent. Guards use certain standard crowd control tactics such as meeting a problem with overwhelming numbers to avoid anyone getting hurt. They're there to protect others from a few troublemakers and the security of the many is more important than the supposed entitlements of the few. That someone got a kidney punch sucks, but I'll bet dollars to donuts he was acting in a confrontational way which the security guy decided he didn't need to see escalate. If someone's being thrown out he's already in the wrong, whether it's not leaving a reserved table, fucking with the staff, or (as happens every couple years) he and his mates all taking off their ManU shirts in the HB tent to show off the lovely Nazi back tattoos.

The guy who got his hand slammed in a door? He shouldn't have had his fucking hand in the doorway when the guard was trying to close it. The doors are closed for safety reasons, due to both fire regulations and freedom of movement. Whenever the guards open a door for any reason, 100 people try and shove their way in.

The security guys generally aren't looking to jump into a fight and they're pretty restrained. I know a bunch of them. This wasn't about a case of a guard beating up Joe Random Stranger, it was an affirmation that the use of reasonable force is acceptable and sometimes necessary. It's the same right I have when I tend bar (because I'm legally responsible for the control of the place) and have only had to exercise once in some 8 years of standing behind the bar in Germany.

woof.
RS500Guy
In the US, this kind of thing usually becomes an instant lottery win/early retirment package for the drunk fool, and a 1/3 payoff for the attorney who settles with the event organizer, venue insurance company, guard's insurance company, and local police who "..failed to protect my client (stipulated as the 'drunk fool') from the testosterone laced jack-booted rent-a-cops who overextended their mandate of public saftey during said event...blah, blah, blah." <---- possible court transcript
Keydeck
Thank the Gods there's still some semblance of sanity in this country.
Podge
The sight of those guards should be more than enough to knock the Teaspach out of the drunkest idiot. Scary men. In saying that I am sure there are innocent people caught up in a bit of a kicking by some guards on a power trip. I stood in the isle of the Hofbrau tent from 6 in the evening one day last until closing time and didnt attract any attention. But then we were well behaved and just sang and drank and generally had a laugh. A few young Italiens who sleazed and groped every girl that passed did however get their reward and I applaud the guards for not condoning that behaviour.
Dinosaur
Whatever you might think of the behaviour of individual guards in specific situations, it does keep the situation LARGELY under control and MOSTLY trouble free. Sure, there is some trouble from time to time but can you imagine something like this taking place in the UK without anarchy and riots.
In some respects, having this judgement in favour of the Security Guards means they are more likely to be feared - which is, maybe, a good thing.
bluedave
Never had a problem with them personally except the usual bollocking for standing on tables etc

I have to say though that the current bunch are a bloody sight better than the infamous Black Sheriffs of the 80's.
Bumpy
The group refused, tempers began to rise, the guards grabbed the main troublemaker and expedited him from the tent. In the course of this expulsion he suffered a torn ligament in his ring finger and was incapacitated for six weeks.

Only in Germany. I hurt my finger, I can't work for 6 weeks.

Which is strange because I understand this to have happened 1 week ago. So how does he know that he'll be out for 6 weeks? Krankgeschrieben?
blowwavedave
I'm pretty sure the incident happened last year Bumpy, with the trial being more recent, seeing Sarabyrd's post was posted a week ago - before the fest had even begun!
sarabyrd
You can even tell by the court file number that the suit was filed last year: Az.:223 C 16529/07. And it only took them a minimum of nine months to hold at least one court date and find a verdict.
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