Will I survive?

Hey there people...

I wonder if anyone can help me.. I am being asked to consider moving to Munich (/any where in Germany)... by my much loved German girlfriend...

I'm not adverse to the idea, but seeing as I have only ever spent 10 days in Germany before, there is many things that remain unanswered...

So I have a few questions that I hope someone may be able to help with... I'm looking to get a bit of an insight so I don't feel that I'm stepping into a black hole of the unknown.

1) How much 'English' is there in Munich...
Will I be able to find things like Newspapers, Books, Cinema? I feel I will be somewhat isolated from 'mental inputs'..

2) Is there much of an ex-pat community?
The European Coffee culture is all good and well, but I figure there are going to be times that I'm going to just need a beer with someone from my own 'tribe'...

3) My german speaking is very basic (aka. Rubbish- just started learning, will get there, but need time and practise) -
but my web design and marketing skills are pretty good... any one able to offer an insight into what I should focus on Job wise?

4) What are the things that will 'weird me out' the most...?
The things you only learn by living there....? The locals habits that you just won't read about...?

5) Is Munich a good place to be? If so, why???
Have the option to go anywhere in Germany.. but like the look of Munich particularly as it opens up snowboarding possibilities... anywhere better I should consider?

6) Any pointers/warnings on things to look out for?
Insider knowledge... "If only I'd known then what I know now style..."

Questions, questions, questions... It's quite a lot, so will stop there... you get the jist though, I am keen to come to Germany... just need more information so I don't feel so lost...

I hope you can help...

Many thanks...

/Steve

if you browse round any number of old threads on the sub-forums Life in Munich and Life in Germany, many of your questions will be answered. Also check out the calendar for events and ex-pat meet-ups in Munich.

Oh and Welcome to Munich.

>Is Munich a good place to be? Have the option to go anywhere in Germany..

Is there an "anywhere" outside Munich?! I've been told that if you cross the Mittlerer Ring you fall into a deep abyss...

Apart from that...yes there are a lot of forums about the topic and the summary is: welcome to the (almost) most livable town in the world:
http://www.toytowngermany.com/forum/index...showtopic=69626

So Steve you have been given the ultimatum – believe me, this is the thin end of the wedge.

No you won't survice! Stay where you are!

Well... that's confusing...

Seems to be two very different view points...

Thanks for the links, they are very handy... it'll take ages to go through the whole board, so if the more relevant ones come to mind, I appreciate it if you posted their links here... Cheers!

Battalionboy...

'Ultimatum'...'thin edge of the wedge...' you sound like you've been in a similar situation before... please, go on... what do you mean?

/S

ps. thanks for geting back to me so quick everyone, that was amazing..!

Most likely something like this:

If you were in control Steve you would live where you want to live not where she decides. So answer me this - who wears the trousers in your relationship?

@ BB, I wouldn't exactly call this a shotgun move. He was asked to consider, not told to relocate.

@ SC, don't rely on love alone getting you through the difficulties. Take your list of questions and see how they might already have been answered here. Moving to a foreign country is a big decision and well worth taking a few hours to research. Personally, I think that everyone should spend a year or so abroad before settling down to breeding and career. There are enough ex-pats around to bolster your lagging spirits while having a German girlfriend will ensure your introduction to the local culture and quirks.

Ah... I get ya BattalionBoy... Nah, it's really not that bad... I'm up for something new... bored of Surrey to be honest, and the rest of the UK doesn't hold much appeal...

Work here is going shit, and the rest of UK economy isn't looking too rosy so it will just be struggle, but most of all... I'm bored. Been stuck in a rut for a long while, so happy to try something new as I've been here all my life.

So, Cheers for the concern, but no need to worry about my trousers old boy... they're 'man sized' with extra room tailored in around the crutch.

Wise words. I was thankful I'd been living here a couple of years before I collided/met up with my future wife (although the couple of "empty" years were at times rather dull).

The first few months are good fun. Then, when you realise that this is for real and not just an extended holiday, it gets tougher. But if you learn German and get to grips with the ways things work here it can work out (although I still find going to the hairdressers stressful).

Best to try to secure a job before you move. That makes a lot of things easier. Good luck.

I came here for love. Well and a job transfer my firm conveniently lined up for me. The love went belly up but wouldn't consider moving back.

Life takes you in strange directions. Sometimes the right decision is to just take a chance and see where it takes you.

There are plenty of threads on relationships with Germans as well for when that gets a bit sticky;-)

Enough if you go to look for it, but do learn the language and how to communicate with the locals and understand the Bavarian way of life as you'll get 1000x more out of your time here that way. I relax in English, speak mostly English with my wife and most of my friends, but also speak kind of decent German for those other occasions, and while the natives sometimes send me nuclear I love and respect them for their peculiarities. Most radio and TV is available on satellite or internet if you need it, most DVDs are in English and most natives speak it if you need help.

Yes, but try not to make this your only life here. Germans are not easy to get to know but join clubs, the Alpenverein is great if you're in to mountain sports, and try to integrate. The expat community can be great but avoid the 'homesick bunch of losers propping up the bar in Irish pubs whingeing about everything foreign' section.

Learn, learn, learn German, it can never hinder you here. Finding a job will be tough, read other threads on the topic. You will need to use some guile.


You can read TT to find out others' experiences but yours will be as unique as everyone elses. Be it queue barging, staring, their tendency to tell you off for everything, or just perceived rudeness the Germans are certainly different, but I have many good friends who are Germans and they're as random and funny as anyone else I know.

I'll put this modestly: There is nowhere better than Munich in Germany. Others may argue but they're talking pants. TT is full of advice about this, search for skiing, snowboarding, walking, weekend breaks, and nightlife and find out. Oh, did anyone mention Oktoberfest starts in 2+ weeks? The bureacracy is pretty daunting to get registered here, but you're not the first and it can be defeated. Your biggest challenge will be finding work, but once that's done you're off to a good start.


I left Surrey 10 years ago for here and never looked back. Only return to visit friends and family.

Good luck.

Thanks for That HellesAngel!

That was a superb reply! Very very grateful!

I fully understand what you say and will be looking to 'integrate' - my lack of german speaking ability should hopefully be temporary... it's just that I know it will take a fair while to get up to any where near an 'intellectual' level - if that makes sense... I just like absorbing information, books, papers, internet, tv, theatre, art... and the ability to do this takes a hit when you don't know the language. I'm not shying away for learning, quite the opposite, just figuring out how to compensate so I don't get bored whilst learning. I hope that makes sense...

I'll heed the words of those saying don't do it for 'love'... but on top of everything, I'm up for the adventure and the experience of immersing myself in something different. I never did the 'travelling' bit so I welcome the chance of some culture shock... just want to brace myself for it!

It sounds like you'll be fine here - you have to appreciate that understanding the locals is a different thing from speaking German. You have to get used to their (the Bavarians that is) way of life and how they communicate and interact, which are things many Germans from outside Barbaria have trouble with, even though they mostly understand the language here. Make sure your German teacher is from Bavaria, or at least likes the way of life, but doesn't have too deep an accent!

I haven't been to Berlin yet, but I love Munich. If I lived there instead of Stuttgart, I'd have a job. I heard lots of english spoken on the streets when I was there and I like the city. I agree, don't move for love. That's alot of pressure put on your partner to integrate you and be your only form of social contact (except work). I would start spending more time in Germany before you make a decision. Doing research will help, but not be anything like living here because every situation is unique. My biggest culture shock I think besides being unemployed, was living in an apartment after living in a home with a garden and having my own car. Good Luck with your decision.

As a web designer, if that is your area of expertise, you will find a fiar amount of English-speaking opportunities here and even on this forum in the "Jobs Section". What I am saying is that you are in a better position (with no German) than most of finding a good job. Here is the most important thing that I have learnt in the last year since I moved from Surrey:

Always carry an umbrella in your rucksack even if it is 90 degree sunshine ;-) Munich weather is weird!

Wishing you every success... You sound like the sort of person that will fit in absolutely fine here.

Steve you might want to post us here a picture of your girlfriend then people can tell you if she is worth it or not. We can tell you how she compares with what is available here on the market. I know you have different standards over there - if Miss Surrey is anything to go by.

This is exactly what I mean about being integrated!

Yeah, I here the Bavarians have their own 'special' dialect/accent.

The thing that worries me most is finding work, which is obviously a concern that runs through many of the topics posted on this board. I'm quite a resourceful chap, who's a jack of all trades in 'business' - but that is a talent that works well in England, but with out the language or understanding of the locals will be hard to capitalise on... feel like i'll have to pull in a 'Del Boy' element and go on survival mode...

There are some interesting jobs about... I see Expedia, the internet travel firm, has a Munich office... I read the job specs (written in English) and what they need falls into my ability... but the lack of language means that there is a massive missing element to my skill set.

It's oktoberfest soon... might try and arrange a little trip to check out the town (and enjoy some fine beverages!)... any tips on where to stay or what to look for on a modest 'holiday' budget?

You really should make a bit of an effort and use the Search function as previously mentioned. This has all been covered many times. If you find a related thread which doesn't completely or specifically answer your questions then just add to that one.

1. It saves people who have already answered questions from having to do so again
b. Any responses you receive will be more easily visible to others who need help in the future
III. It's good forum etiquette.

"Steve you might want to post us here a picture of your girlfriend then people can tell you if she is worth it or not. We can tell you how she compares with what is available here on the market. I know you have different standards over there - if Miss Surrey is anything to go by."

Ha ha- Had to google that... http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-54...land-final.html

I tip my hat to your sardonic sense of humour... it's people like you that make me think that it won't be all bad out there! Making me laugh already...

Keydeck...

Sorry fella... freshly registered today... will try to 'keep on topic' and stop people having to re-iterate answers...

/S

Ye gods - thank heavens I left the country... There's much better available up here...

the facilities might not be that great, like i'm not sure about audible signals at the crosswalks, but overall i think you'll be fine. at least nobody will complain about you bringing your dog into a restaurant.

Don't move!

The German's are truly awful: self-righteous, aggressive and with very little sense of other people's feelings...but if that's not an issue for you, enjoy the higher standards of living and 'efficiency' of the place...

Job specs written in English maybe, but they are all Germans. Of course lots of them there speak good English, but they will conduct an interview in German. I know this for a fact. Trust me.
Tech-wise. I know their website used to ASP.NET based, but AFAIK, it has either gone to, or will go to Java.

I don't really know what the web-design job market is like here, I only look at the more programming orientated jobs. Germans are more anti-Microsoft than the UK BTW, dunno if that is relevant to you. Expect to see lots of php and mySQL related work.

When I read the topic title, I thought you were actually blind, so your post might have had some merit. Now I see you're just too lazy to use the search. When you do, it might surprise you that hundreds of other people have come here with the same questions, and they have been answered a hundred times before.

OFest time is an expensive time to visit if you are just checking the city out, maybe better to come once it's over? flights and accommodation will likely be cheaper then.

here is TT's list of International Companies in Munich for possible jobs.

I'd advise brushing up your German skills before you come, it won't necessarily be an advantage to you being a native English speaker, many Germans speak English to a high level. also a bit of cash in your pocket is advisable too.

good luck!

God, you're a moany bastard! Give the guy a break.

I understand your dilemma very well, Steve.
I'm German and my English bf and I are talking about relocating to the UK, it's the same things that I'm worried about.
Even though my English is decent, I'm still asking myself if it will be easy to cope with the English spoken at work. Will it be possible for me to integrate enough for feeling at home, even if I probably don't understand half of the jokes due to
a) being German (hence inbred lack of humour)
b) not having the same background (e.g. history, upbringing, tv programmes etc. everybody else grew up with)

I agree with Sarabyrd, it's great to have lived abroad for at least a while - either to appreciate the culture of the country you came from, or to find out you really rather want to live elsewhere than your home-country.
I have not yet done that and at the age of 42 I do find it hard to make a decision, to give up the relative security I have here...

I don't want to be a killjoy, but lack of German knowledge might really cause a problem for you if you work in an area where it is vital that you speak the language. German is hard to learn, HOW hard I only realize now that I see my bf still struggling with it after three years, and there's so many strange rules that I cannot really explain to them, because I find them not logical, compared to English. He can have a conversation in German, but if I talk with German friends on the phone, he doesn't understand a word. Same when we're out with our German friends and neighbours, we speak a mix of English and German with them, but if the conversation is more in German, it can at times be very boring for him.
Main reason for us to consider relocation to UK is the fact that longterm he wants to gain a foothold in acting, which is hard in Germany without speaking German really fluently.
If it weren't for his acting, he would not consider going back to the UK, because he really likes it here.

So if you can find a job where you don't have to speak German well, great.
I hear from many of our English, Scottish and Irish friends, also German friends who live or lived in the UK that the quality of life is a lot better in Germany, and with your German not being very good yet, Munich is probably the best place for you as there is a huge expat community, meetups every day, if it's not for the job, I think in Munich you don't really HAVE to learn German. An English friend of us who has lived in Munich (and partly in Hamburg) for a long time (I think 7 or 8 years) without speaking half as much German as my bf, but he gets along well (no, I'm NOT talking about you, dave!).
On the other hand: if you really want to learn German: stay away from the expat crowd, move to a little village where most people do not speak English so you are forced to learn the language. Otherwise it's likely to be too tempting to speak English all the time, especially if your gf speaks English well.

Thanks...

I'm sort of building a picture now...
It sounds like a fun thing to do for a while... bit of an adventure, liven things up...

There seems to be enough ex-pats for me to identify a few who enjoy the beer like only the British can.

The work things a worry, bit of an arse as well as I'm 29, just hitting the age where I really know what I'm doing work wise... so it would be a step backwards unless I had a bit of luck. Need 'a plan'... will have to try and figure out something jammy...

I'm tempted... very tempted to take the plunge...

The alternative being 'more of the same'... which is doing my head in.

Stephen - the grass always looks greener on the other side of the fence. Make sure if you plan to move, you plan an exit route too.

Yeh, that's exactly what we need more of over here (that one was for JOB).

Learn to read and write German in Munich, but you will have a difficult time to speak it in Munich. They speak boarisch :-) to explain the mentality there: I visited Munich a years back and my guide was a retired local and he took me to the Viktualienmarkt, had of course a Weisswurscht and a Weisse. I had one Mass he had four as he introduced me to his friends. Afterwards we marched over to Schneider's to visit another appointee who was already sitting on one of the long tables on the sidewalk. We ordered and talked while we waited. In the meantime my guide's friends came by chance with their wives and after a short 'griass eich' the women took off for window shopping and the men stayed for a 'Mass Weisse'. A middleaged couple came and asked to use the last two empty chairs on our table which was okey'd and they ordered their meals which did not take very long to come.He had ordered Kasseler Rippen mit Sauerkraut and she had ordered Kaiserschmarrn. He dived in his dish and she started to poke around in her Kaiserschmarrn. The local sitting next to her asked her: is des a Kaischerschmarrn? des is doch ga koana! She tried a few pieces of it and pushed the plate aside. So the local sitting next to her asked her, are you not finishing it? The couple got up and paid and the local said well if you don't want it 'dann iss hoid i' and promptly cleaned the plate off. Still have to smile about it after 10 years and my guide never even noticed it.
That's the spirit of Muenchen!

I'm sorry Gaberlunzi, but I don't think that your explanation will be of much use to the OP since you write in Bavarian and include dish names in German/Bavarian which will make it extremely hard if not impossible for the OP to understand hence rendering your 'explanation' obsolete. To quote the OP:

How do explain Kaiserschmarrn to an Englishman? mixed up pancake?

One can at least provide the URL to Wikipedia (in English even).

Besides, they don't really speak Bayerisch in Munich, it's more sort of Bayerisch-light.

People speaking Bavarian in Munich are truly few and far between, you are much better off learning Hochdeutsch to get the general grammar rules clear. Once the Bavarian speakers hear your accent they'll try to accommodate you.

Hi Steve, sounds like my own situation was not a million miles from yours. I am from Surrey, have a German wife, love snowboarding and we were getting bored/sick of UK life 5 years ago so her indoors suggested we moved here. (actually looked briefly at Austria first). I came with totally crap german skills (now at "pony" level), no special ideas jobwise, and some web design skills.

Anyways - just jump in, the water is fine. It's no big deal in the great scheme of life. I stayed self-employed and in simple terms, just flog my crap on the internet - piece of piss basically. Spend 10 minutes on www.alibaba.com and 10 minutes on www.ebay.co.uk and cross reference the two. You got the skills to throw up a website and off you go.

If over at Oktoberfest will buy you a beer.

as if it doesn't rain as much in England :-), lived there 4 years, have memories to prove, not a big change, I think

p.s. Umbrellas are probably the dumbest things ever invented. Possibly even dumber and more useless than towed caravans.

Yeah, your situation sounds a little similar... very similar in fact...

Kind of like the sound of having something like that as a back up... no joke, you've got me thinking about the option of just using the internet to make money... it's not a bad option at all... subscription sites, online stores... it would be good to have that running nicely in the back ground... just worried I would end up a bit reclusive without working in the 'real' world as it were... hmmm.. opens up some very interesting angles though... cheers. What's the boarding like? Snow good?

Quite inspired now... cheers for that!

I reckon you should just head down here and give it a go! It will be as good as you make it. We do whinge here, but it's mostly about small stuff. And we've already established that there is plenty of beer, skiing, cinema, newspapers and mountains. And plenty of people speak English. And little violent crime. (I bet you've been stabbed a few times this year already!)
I don't know about your work. But hell, give it a go! It will be an experience.

Say I did just that...

As the roughest of rough figures, with prices as they are there currently... How long could I make 7000 euro last? 1 month, 2 month, 3 month, 4 month, 5 month...?
Bear in mind that I would be prepared to live like a dirty student in that time... and would of course be trying to earn my own money (and would put the missus to work)... but just to give an initial idea...

Munich? You mean Minga


yep


So sind die Deutchen.

Other than that...bring money.

A beer will cost you about 3.20 Euros. You do the maffs.

Nobody can answer how long it will last.

Renting a flat (3 months deposit), furnishing it and buying a kitchen (2000 Eur or so)? Shipping stuff? If so, it'll probably go quite quickly.

If your g/f is taking care of your living costs and you only have to feed and water yourself, it's different, of course.

The general answer of course is, the more money you have (and/or a secure income stream lined up), the easier emigration is. It gives you more choice and more room for manouvre.

But some people with 700k will find it hard work. Others with zilch will take to it like a duck to water.