Tricky work permit issues when switching jobs

Note: I'm a regular poster on TT who has created a new account for purposes of anonymity (I'm slightly paranoid that my boss could find my post and identify me if I were to use my normal account). If what is written below sounds familiar to any of you and you think you know who I am, please do not divulge that info here.

I'm in a slightly delicate situation at the moment. I have been in Germany for two years and have been in my current job for 11 months. My work contract is limited to one year, expiring at the end of August, as are my work and residence permits. However, my boss intends to extend my contract as he is under the impression that I intend to stay at least until 2010, which he would like very much, as it would allow me to see my projects out to their ends.

However, over a two-month period I have interviewed for another job, which was finally offered to me in writing this past Monday (in the form of a signed work contract set to begin October 1, though they are happy to change this to November 1 should that be more convenient). I am not very satisfied with my current job and this new offer is something of a 'dream job' for me, so the decision to take it was fairly easy to reach. All that remains is the matter of the work permit and notifying my boss of my intention to leave.

Therein lies the difficulty. I do not want to tell my boss that I intend to leave until I am certain that I will be granted the work permit. However, as I only received the contract this week and am submitting the paperwork to the KVR tomorrow morning, I will not know officially for some time yet whether the work will be approved. The worst case scenario is that I would give my boss my notice and then be denied the permit, leaving me out of work (assuming I can't go groveling back to him) and thereby likely resulting in a move back to the U.S. (and another job search), something I do not want.

Further info to complicate the matter: my boss will be going on vacation for nearly the entire month of August, meaning any action I take would have to be next week. The company offering my the new job has filled out the application for the work permit in full, including the position description and the skills required. I am ideally suited for this job, which is in an extremely specialized field. Quite literally, my education, experience, and skills directly satisfy the qualifications required for the position nearly one-to-one. The pay, however, is nothing extraordinary and certainly doesn't put me anywhere near that €80K 'so highly-paid you must be uniquely qualified on that basis alone' bracket. Also, the company has written a letter to be submitted with the application indicating that they have actively sought a candidate for 14 months and are delighted to have finally found someone suitable (that being me). They have also included a copy of the original Stellenausschreibung, which is dated July 2007.

Additionally, I am working on one project in particular that is on a time frame ending October 31. While I realize that I am not contractually obligated to stay longer than the end of my current contract (again, August 31), I feel morally obligated to stay at least a bit longer to help wrap that up partially, if not completely, as I do feel it is my responsibility and I do have very good relationships with my coworkers and the contract partners, who I would like to avoid inconveniencing more than necessary. In other words, I don't want to burn any bridges I don't have to.

In the ideal situation, I would feel confident that the work permit will be approved relatively expediently and would talk to my boss and agree to end my work at the end of September (i.e. extend my current contract by a month). Although that is less than the three month notice that is considered standard here, it would still enable me to bring my projects further along and would allow him some more breathing room. I would get a Fiktionsbescheinigung from the KVR and all would be peachy.

The question is, how do I go about this without that certainty? Do I just wait until the decision on the work permit is made, thereby allowing me to stay in my current job if it is denied (I would extend my current contract and work permit) or to take the new job should it be granted? Or do I talk to my boss next week since he will be gone for a month and will likely expect that I sign an extension of my contract while he is away (our secretary would prepare one)? Of course I know that the latter option is far more professional but I do have this fear that, in the event the permit is denied, I would really be up the proverbial creek.

All advice greatly appreciated!

sorry would love to help but just way too much to read there, could you sum it up in like 10 or 20 words?

When you submit your application at KVR tomorrow, you can enquire about the time in getting the workpermit approved. You can be optimistic about getting the WP and need to worry only about the delay.
The best solution would be to talk with your manager about your new job offer. You can offer to stay on until your current project is completed.

If it were easier to summarize, it wouldn't be such a tricky situation. But I'll give it a shot.

--I've been at my current job 11 months. I am on a one-year contract that expires August 31. Boss is under impression I will stay at least another 1 or two years and plans to extend my work contract accordingly. Work and residence permits would be extended accordingly. Boss goes on vacation at end of next week for one month.

--I have received an offer for a 'dream job' from another company for a job in a specialized field for which I am am extremely well-qualified. Work would begin October 1 or November 1 (my choice), pending approval of my application for a work permit, which I will be submitting tomorrow. The company has been looking for someone for this position for 14 months and has indicated so on the permit application.

--I want to accept the offer and give my notice to terminate at my current job. However, I am reluctant to quit before the work permit is approved because in the event it is denied I will be without a job and would be forced to go home.

So the question is, do I wait for the permit to be approved before giving notice (which would be difficult for my current boss since I would be leaving on short notice) or do I quit and negotiate with him an end date (i.e. a short extension of my current contract to allow me to finish work on current projects) next week before he goes on vacation?

Even shorter: I have a new job offer and am waiting on my permit. The chances for the permit are good based on the circumstances. How do I deal with my current boss?

Arent these details enough for your boss to findout who you are presuming that hes reading the TT posts? U have divulged waaaaaaay 2 much information for anyone who knows ur current status to narrow down on u?

Thank you for the response. I will of course inquire tomorrow, though I should also mention that the company already inquired (by telephone) on my behalf and were told that based on the nature of the job and my qualifications it is 'unlikely' that their selection of me would have to be examined (which can take about 2 months) and that the approval process would 'most likely' deal with the appropriateness of the salary for the work being done, meaning most likely approval would come in two to four weeks. But they couldn't be certain until they've received the documents and started the paperwork.

You are right that I need to talk to him and I would offer to stay on until the project ends (or almost 'til then), the only question is when do I talk to him? ASAP or wait?

Paranoia knows no logic. That said, I'm almost certain he doesn't read TT (or even know it exists). However, assuming he did and he was aware of my screen name, he could search for the posts made under that name and see this post. Hence the different name. But that is already a very unlikely scenario and that he would see a post by this unassociated name is all the more unlikely. Put another way, I'm comfortable enough with this arrangement. In any case, since this is a new screen name I don't have the right to edit posts yet, so what's done is done.

You’re question is about a decision, should I risk it should I not? Only you can answer this (I would go for it you‘ve got to take a risk every now and then)

I suppose your major concern should be getting your residence permit extended, without waiting for the work permit approval of your new job. This can be done without extending the contract with your current employer(I don't have quick information, but do a search on TT to get more info).

2-4 weeks?!!! I got my work permit on the day I applied based solely on my salary which, at that time, was well over the minimum you needed to get an immediate work permit (50K per year). I went to Arbeitsamt in person with the application and (even with no German) got the permit that day.

So, 2-4 weeks seems over the top.
The squeaky wheel gets the grease.

Thanks Trudering_Indian. I've done that before. Got a Fiktionsbescheinigung for 3 months after my last job change.


Based on my experience I must say I'm under the impression that your case is the exception rather than the rule. In any event, I was under the impression (based on reading old posts on TT) that the 'minimum' for an immediate work permit was around €80K. I'm certainly not making that and they indicated on the phone that it would take the stated 2-4 weeks (as most of my previous permits have) minimum. But I should know more after handing in the paperwork tomorrow. One question: you say you went to the Arbeitsamt (which in Munich is I believe on Kapuzinerstraße)--is that correct? I was under the impression that I had to hand in everything at the Ausländerbehörde at the KVR (at Poccistraße/Ruppertstraße). Am I fixing to go to the wrong place tomorrow?

In any event, since the company has expressed such enthusiasm for me thus far I am hoping that they will indeed act as the 'squeaky wheel' and keep on the Agentur für Arbeit about this so that it doesn't lag more than necessary.

Well, I went to the Arbeitsamt twice - once in 2001 and once in 2004 to renew my work permit. I then had to additionally go to KVR to renew my residence permit. This was all before they combined the two in 2005. In 2001, the minimum you could make annually was 50K. I am you basic programmer - no special skills so I don't know why I would have a special case. However, times have changed and everything is done in one place now so maybe it is harder.

Similar to Kitkat, I have also received an immediate work permit, although on the second attempt, and my salary was less than 80K.
I say "second attempt", because the first time I went in to extend my permit, the guy told me I would need at least 4 weeks, and gave me sheaths of paperwork to fill out. This sounded dodgy given that I am from one of the supposed preferred countries for working, so I went back to someone else, and it was done on the spot.

I went to the Ausländerbehörde at the KVR today with the following items:

• Work contract
• Letter from company to Agentur für Arbeit explaining desire to hire me and stating 14-month search period
• Application for work permit (with respective Arbeitnehmer and Arbeitgeber sections filled out fully)
• Original jop posting (dated July 2007)
• Resume (clearly matching qualifications required in job description)
• Application for extension of residence permit, filled out in full by me

The employee at the Ausländerbehörde with whom I spoke said that my documents would be forwarded to the Munich office of the Bundisagentur für Arbeit and that the processing time was totally dependent on them. I asked if he had any idea how long it might take and said there was no way to know, but sometimes it can take '3 to 4 weeks'.

Should I do like SweedishChef and return with all the materials again and hope for a different employee? Should I pay a visit directly to the Bundesagentur für Arbeit and bring new copies of the materials myself? Should I have the company call them next week (I'm thinking maybe Tuesday) to check on the progress?

I've come to terms with the fact that I'll have to talk to my current boss next week, since he'll be on vacation after that. I know it's unlikely, but it really would be wonderful if I had some sort of confirmation before then.

Thanks again!

I would try going to the B. für Arbeit (I think that's the former Arbeitsamt) and see what they say. If you explain your situation, they maybe can expedite it a bit.

Until 2004, the Greencard program was effective and you could get a fast track work permit for a IT related job. Not the case now.

Hmm... tough one. I'm assuming that you listed your nationality truthfully in your profile, and are American. I have heard that America also has a work agreement with Germany, so should make you one of the preferred nationalities.
But again, I can only go on what happened to me. I had taken in the documentation similar to yourself, and the first guy literally went ballistic at me for not being prepared enough, and not providing the correct forms. I called my HR department to check if they had given me everything required, and whether I needed the form the Beamter had told me to fill out. They told me that in their experience this wasn't required, so I went to a different person, who looked at the forms, said "yep, fine", and sorted it.

I did not apply for a green card and this was never mentioned to me so I don't think that was case here.

I suppose we'll find out next week whether it'll really be a quick process or not. I just talked to the future boss and he's determined to 'carefully' apply pressure in whatever way necessary to make this happen quickly, and also so that I can give my notice with a degree of confidence.

Just to note, I work in engineering but not IT, so I don't know what similarities and/or differences there are between our situations.

I've been on the same situation -- and it happened just recently.

Like you, I'm on the engineering field and I got myself into a similar dilemma. That is, whether I quit my current job (company A) before I have my permit approved for my next employer (company B), or wait for the permit before quitting. What made it extra difficult was that company B is on a different state, and that I had to make arrangements for my move (give up my flat, find and finalize a new apartment, arrange for the movers) while the permit is still up in the air since Company B wanted me to start in a a little over 2 months. So basically I was ready to fly out of Germany if in the worst case the permit gets rejected.

Company B felt I am a very good match to the position, and they have been looking for someone to fill in the position for some time (maybe 6 months) already. So when I took their offer, I raised my concern on the risk of quitting my job in company A while the permit is still pending. Company B assured me they will support my application and I should not worry. The good thing was that company B employs an immigration lawyer on these matters to help out with the processing.

I quit from company A, submitted the necessary documents to the lawyer like resume, job description, passport photocopies, and so on. Lawyer asked me to fill up a questionnaire as well. The one important thing that the lawyer told me was that since I am residing in state A while company B is in state B, i should not de-register in state A while the permit application is ongoing. This he said will introduce an unnecessary delay of moving all my documents from state A to state B. The permit, once approved, will be released in state A.

He didn't even asked me to send him a copy of the contract (he said it's not necessary; but I'm not sure what documents he asked from company B). Verbally he assured me he sees no potential issues (labor market, qualifications) and that I will have my permit in time (he mentioned it could take 4 weeks up to 8 weeks max), but was a bit non-committal as to its chances of getting approved when he sent me his first email (with the subject line "Planned Employment with Company B" which made me a bit nervous because of the word "planned" when I thought it will be as good as a formality.

It took a little more than 2 weeks when I got an email from him saying it had been approved. Went to the KVR, met with the immigration officer and had my stamp for company B.

From my experience, it took a little over 3 weeks to process the whole application, including some pressure from the personnel department (contacting the Amt, and the Agentur fuer Arbeit) Seems to be the norm (3-4 weeks)

Good Luck guys!