What to use as an "amtlicher Lichtbildausweis"

So what documents can be used as an amtlichen Lichtbildausweis other than your passport ?

Ausweis (national ID card), EU photo driving licence (I think, but possibly not in all situations). Basically Ausweis and passport are the safe bets.

Yeah, it depends who's asking. Photocard driving licence will be good eg. for proving your identity in combination with a season ticket for the railways, but isn't going to get you into the country.

Under German law there are only two things which count as a valid form of identification; a Passport and Ausweis (ID card). NOTHING else if officially recognised by law.

Also, any and all official replacement/temporary documentation with the same official information (Passersatz, Vorübergehender Personalausweis, Vorübergehender Reisepass etc).

A driver's license is typically accepted in any case where identification of registered place of living is deemed unimportant; note that the Reisepass doesn't contain this information either, but is "more official".

The German Reisepass does actually contain the registered place of living ...

Wohnortänderung im Reisepass

Well in theory a German drivers licence has your wohnort in it too. Mine says I live in München, which I haven't done since 1988!

(German) EU License card doesn't. Only tells the city that issued it.

Ah well I've got one of those tatty old pink paper ones, non of this new fangled plastic nonsense for me!

All inhabitants of Germany are supposed to carry ID at all times, German nationals have their ID cards, so no problems, but officially that means that brits should carry a passport. In practice, having an EU driving license on you is good enough for general spontaneous identification. If the fuzz (frinstance) wont accept that, youre probably in deep doodoo anyway.

Astoundingly, most branches of H&M want to you ID yourself before you can pay by EC card, and they will not accept a driving license (just another reason never to shop there)

andy M

There is no such requirement.
There is the requirement to OWN id/passport and to present it upon request, but there is no requirement to carry it with you.
There is such a requirement in some other countries--the Netherlands, for example.

No they are not. Germans are required to possess an ID card but there is no law stating that they have to carry it with them. Many do, because it's useful and you are required to produce it if the police ask, but that can just turn into a ride home in a nice shiny silver and green BMW, so they can have a look.

It really surprises me that so many people believe that you have to carry ID on you. I wonder where people get this mis-information from. You just need to google "Ausweispflicht" and you get pages detailing exactly what Allershausen just wrote.

That is true but essentially irrelevant. You are required by law to be able to identify yourself whenever someone with the relevant powers asks you to. As identifying yourself involves showing an Ausweis or Reisepass and not having one of those means you can be taken to a police station and held until your identity can be extablished, in practice you need a means of identification most of the time.


That may well turn into a night in the cells depending on why they picked you up in the first place. The police are not required to take you home if you dont have your Ausweis with you, after all, it is you who is required to identiofy yourself. In practice they may well be pragmatic, if you live close, but if you live the other side of town and/or they are pissed off about something, you can find yourself being carted to their station and ejected there with no means of transport.

Is that really less hassle than just having an ID on you?

andy M

Probably from people unable to read english. I didnt say *have to*, because as both you and Allershausen have found out, there is an "Ausweispflicht" but not a "Mitführpflicht". I put "supposed to" for reasons I have explained in an answer elsewhere.

BTW - The "Ausländerbehörde" and the "Einwohnermeldeamt" dont talk to each other, with the result that the data in the Ausländebehörde can be very out of date. It took my local one 17 years (in words - seventeen years) to realise the Passport they had on record for me had expired (Ive had two others since). You can imagine how out of date the address they had for me was. If they were the people that the fuzz contacted first, I would have had some explaining to do. Not impossible, but very time consuming and who needs the hassle.

If you think its better to spend hours in a police station waiting for some twonk to trawl through your "Einwohnermeldeamt" entries than just carrying a driving license, then thats an interesting attitude, but I dont share it :-).

andy M

I would say that if the police turned it into a night in the cells, then you have been doing something wrong or are at least suspected of doing something wrong. The police don't go around randomly stopping people to check their ID. In over 20 years of living here the only ID I've ever had to produce is my drivers licence when I've been caught doing something naughty or had an accident in my car. No other form of ID was asked for. This is not a police state and making claims that you have to carry ID and "could" end up in the cells if you don't have it is misrepresenting this country.

My drivers licence doesn't have my address on it, in fact it says that I live in Munich (Wohnort) which I haven't done since 1988, so it would be fairly useless for establishing where I live, but there again so would my passport.

Right.. Try walking around Hauptbahnhof at 1am or on the weekends when they run their inspection checks.. They mainly target non-whites or foreign looking people.
But to keep of the illusion of non discrimination they do check whites as well. Even out in the sticks, I've been randomly stopped for ID Checks. It happens alot, just
because it doesn't happen to you doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

Police ID checks at Frankfurt Hauptbahnhof, Being stopped by the cops for no reason
Racial profiling used in ID checks by the police - Munich
Police at the Hauptbahnhof - ID checks - Munich


Wrong again, if you have actually been checked, you would know that most of the time, they will take your license and run it thru the computer, or call your details back into the station
to verify who you are and where you live. Even if your address isn't on your license, they will know exactly where you live and many other details contained in the Residents and criminal
Databases.

I'm at the Hauptbahnhof late at night most Fridays and have never had any problems, but I'm not black. That must be the reason.

Of course if they run my licence through the computer they're going to find me, it's not a worthless piece of paper, however mearly by looking at it is not going to give them my address, but you knew that's what I meant and are just trying to be smart.

Totally agree with Allershausen on this. So much scaremongering it is unbelievable.

I've lived in Germany over 15 years and never had problems cos i had no ID, and yes I've had to deal with the police a number of times. One time i got stopped in my car, didn't even have a driving licence with me so the police drove me home and looked at my licence and passport. Nothing further happened besides the 15DM fine for not having my driving licence with me whilst driving.

The police have even been satisfied with a bank card showing my name and me stating my address as this tied in the with the KVR records.

Like Allershausen says, this isn't a police state and if you end up in a police cell you were probably doing something to deserve it whether you could ID yourself or not.

What's the point in carting you off to the cells. Assuming you live alone, and have your spare key in the office, how are you going to get your passport to the police station?

I don't think the German police dislike empty cells so much that they're going to lock you up for simply being without id. Of course they probably have the right to do so, but does anybody know of anone locked up rather than being taken home for Id crimes?

I can confirm this because it actually happened to us last weekend in Berlin Hbf. We were 3 guys walking out of the station at 2:30 am, one German, one dual citizen German/Colombian and myself. For no reason the Police targeted the German/Colombian guy and asked him for his ID. I and the German guy just walked away from the police, I was rushing because I did not have any ID with me (not even the xerox copies I use to carry normally).

I really want to see all the TTers who are tough here in the Internet when they are actually controlled by the Police. The Police must not take you home, they do it only because it is practical but if you try to be a prick with them and play the "I know my rights" game you will probably spend a couple of hours in the police station.

Thats the whole point, it's not necessary to be tough, be polite, they are in my experience when I've been stopped in my car. Antagonising the police in any country is a good way to get to try out police cell food.

I agree that it makes sense to have some sort of picture-containing ID or driver's license on you. In all my time in Germany, I've never been asked for ID by the police, though I have seen others checked. The police can radio your name/DOB info into their station and perform a search on you that way. If I were asked for ID, I would present everything I had on me at the time that could be used to identify me and provide any relevant information to the officers.

I travel with my passport any time I cross a border (it's the law) and anytime I go somewhere overnight (it makes sense). I do not carry my passport with me on a daily basis. I do have my German EU-card driver's license as well as a copy of my residence permit, passport, and Meldebestätigung in my wallet at all times. I've applied for a US passport card, which I will carry in my wallet after I receive it (it is meant for border crossings by land and sea within the western hemisphere, but it is a proof of identity and citizenship). I also have the emergency telephone numbers for the US embassies and consulates programmed into my cell phone.

To be frank, the hassles involved if I lose my passport (a visit to Frankfurt, Berlin, or Munich during the workweek, plus fees, etc.) far outweigh the potential inconvenience of having to identify myself.