The establishment paedophile

This does not make easy reading whatsoever, as it concerns the case of historian and curator Roger Took.

Spectator article: The Establishment paedophile: how a monster hid in high society


The article can be extremely difficult to read as certain acts of abuse are remembered in detail, however, as Mr Took remains a subscriber of the Spectator, it is a brave and well-written piece.
Pat Took has since appeared on BBC Radio 4 Women's Hour and you can listen to the piece on the link.

Mr Took is currently appealing his sentence: Roger Took - Wikipedia

Sickening truly ,the problem is with these people is they think its perfectly normal ,in a recent TV documentary a paedophiliac said "would an heterosexual Stop liking/wanting the opposite sex if it was made illegal." A good point I thought which makes it all the more difficult to understand how the system can even attempt to begin to "cure" these people

But by that logic timezoner you open up the very foundations of civilised society and the rule of law to scrutiny. It's a bogus argument. Every law has those who dislike it, be it murder or speed restrictions, but that does not make the law less valid.

I’m refering more to the fact that we send these people back into society after their “rehabilitation“( in this case 4,5 years) something that simply cannot work if you consider what they consider normal and what we consider normal are two completely different things

I did some research a few years ago for a letter I was writing to an editor of an American newspaper on the subject of pedophilia. This is what I found out, at least 75 percent of pedophile victims know the perpetrator. At least 1 in 5 girls by the age of 16 have been sexually molested by a pedophile. I advocate for more education for children and stiffer punishment for the perpetrators.

Education is a pressing need in our society because pedophilia is not a problem that is about to go away.

You need the establishment's cooperation to remove these guys from their positions of power. My very own personal abuser works at a private school (in Germany), is the job counseling teacher there and gives private tutoring lessons. The school knows about the abuse and did fc*k all. No immediate dismissal, no removal from his special office, no warning to the parents.

I can't get at him because of the German statute of limitation. But you can be sure that the grapevine is chipping away at him and his pristine reputation.

If you take the Belgium example I think the 'establishment' were these guys sadly

What I find chilling about stories like this is that there appears to be such a large audience for the most sickening child pornography. One would like to think that such sick deviants would be very few and far between, but if there are chat forums full of people who get a kick out of reading about (not to mention seeing pictures of) children being raped, tortured and killed - well, you start to wonder whether you really know what's going on inside all your seemingly normal colleagues, neighbours, and other acquaintances.

don't forget family !

If you're not upset at the article, the radio interview may just break your heart. Ach.
I really wish I knew how to stop cases like these, I really do. Maybe the Berliner Charité does?*

*if a mod can find the article I wrote about this treatment once, I'd be grateful for the link.

Word up sister. Sadly, it seems like a "normal" part of humanity, in that it has always existed and continues to exist. I can think of countless way to punish offenders, but stopping it from happening in the first place? God only knows.

Just another angle on what Sarbyrd was saying, a few years ago my mother told me of a priest who was interfering (allegedly) with young boys (in the Manchester area ...not important where) anyway what did the church do? They moved him away to another post and that was that!

@LR, I´d like to know how educating a child is going to save him or her from being molested. That´s a weird statement.

My molester, my ex-stepfather, was and still is a "pillar of society". Well known professor of physics, works for the JPL at NASA, tours the world giving lectures, published all over the place. No one believed such a smart, educated man would do such a thing.

That is quite a simple lesson: smart does not equal good.

I don't think that is what LR was referring to at all. She is meaning educate the children so they can identify abuse, how their abusers will try to stop them from saying anything so they can seek help immediately and not years afterwards.

Believe me, a kid knows when it is being abused. A bigger problem is finding someone who will believe the kid and doesn´t just want to close their eyes and hold their hands over their ears and sing "Lalalalalalala" until the problem goes away.

The problem is that usually the abusers are those in positions of authority over kids. These are the people who are supposed to teach the kids to protect themselves from this kind of stuff, yet they are the ones doing it. Quite confusing.

Ick . . . I hope there is a special place like hell for those monsters.


On that note: My brother is a cop, and I know a few people who work in jails in the US. Not sure if it differs from state to state, but convicted child molesters have to be isolated from general population for their own saftey. Is it the same way in Germany? Do you think they should be isolated, or left in general population to fend for themselves?

I didnt really have anything more than general "repulsed" feelings about these sorts of crimes and their perpetrators, until I became a father. Now I'd frankly be glad to castrate them, with a blunt spoon. The rage (and I really mean rage, not anger, a definite red mist, beserker sort of feeling) I feel when I even think about anyone harming my kids in any way even remotely close to this is indescribable - they wouldnt need to jail the perpetrators, just leave me in a room with them for a while.

Its all bravado and supposition I realise, but it is honestly how I feel about these sorts of people. Theres no "rationality" to it, its a very visceral and animalistic reaction.

Revenge and brutal beating and stuff aside, it is pretty rough that society has to foot the bill for any prison stay. Think I once heard that it costs about 2 times the average wage to keep a bloke in the nick for 1 year; even at krout taxation rates, that is 4 or 5 people working full time jobs to pay for a perv in pris. Fuck that.

First and foremost, children have to learn that it's not just the greasy-haired unwashed perv from the playground offering them candy who can and will harm them. Everyone can, even (and especially) your closest family and friends. So as Crawlie pointed out it's important to teach children how to recognize abuse. It starts with a hello hug that lasts just that much too long, the repeated invitation to sit on a lap, the rough and tumble games that end up on the floor with the child pinned by the adult, the "special secrets" that might even start out harmless until the adult has control etc. Children trust grown-ups and should be able to rely on them but they have to learn to say No, to push an adult away, to turn to others for help.

My mother was shocked to the gills when I told her that my step-father had abused me for five years and tried again when I was 17 (getting punched in the gut for his attempt), she always said, My daughter would tell me if anything was wrong. It took me a long time to realize just how wrong his actions were. At least she and the rest of my family, including the bastard's mother, believed me.

Yes, I believe children at a very young age should be taught in an age appropriate manner about personal safety, including prevention of sexual abuse. There should be an ongoing effort to continue to provide education on personal safety throughout their childhood. This information should include what their private parts are, what to do if they are approached by strangers, what to do if someone touch their private parts, how to tell, reassure them it's not their fault, let them know they would be believed and also they should be taught they can say no. Children should also know the abuser could be anyone they know.

I believe parents should be involved in teaching their children about personal safety and reinforcing it throughout their childhood. I also think schools should have a responsibility to do this as well. Parents should also be taught to recognize subtle behavioral changes that may occur in their child that could be a possible sign of sexual abuse.


I have talked with many women who were sexually abused as young children and did not know until later they were actually being abused as the abuser made it out to be a game. Now I agree older children will know if they are being sexually abused.

Regarding your comment about abusers in position of authority, all adults are in a position of authority to a child because most parents are raising their children to respect adults. Like I said earlier most children are abused by someone they know (and trust) and this is why I believe education is key. Of course, education will not prevent all cases of abuse, but we have to start somewhere to curtail this prevalent problem of sexual abuse of children.

Every first experience becomes the norm for a child. Only later in life does the child realize that something was amiss or not.
Take care,
space

I believe most parents try to teach their children about safety - and it's a tricky balance between trying to teach them to respect adults and authority and trying to teach them about self-assertion and personal safety. I think it's tricky for children as well - at what point does self-assertion become lack of respect (I'm not just thinking of sexual abuse, but in general situations of even physical or mental abuse, or the beginnings thereof).

The grade school here did offer an optional course on self-assertion aimed towards preventing abuse (mainly sexual) in separate courses for boys and girls in 1st and 2nd grade. Which reminds me, they haven't mentioned it this year.

Teaching parents about behavioral changes or other indications of abuse or other problems such as even drug use (thinking ahead to the perils of teenage years) is a wonderful idea - but who is going to do this and at what age? (Just thinking of the practical aspects)

These people need to be put out of circulation permanently. I suppose the only civilised way to do that is to lock them up for life.

GreenTea: I've been thinking exactly the same thing. Though people of that type must always have been around, modern technology must not only enable them to network, band together and perpetrate these crimes on a much wider and organised scale but give people whose tendencies might otherwise have remained dormant an opportunity to cultivate them and put them into practice. So I can believe that are more paedophiles around now than there used to be and that it's not just a case of the issue being more public than before.

I also wonder how many of these people also use adult porn. Given the choice between two people to babysit your children: one uses adult porn, the other doesn't, how many parents could honestly say that they would choose the porn user?

If that was ever put to a public referendum, with all the costs clearly explained, I am not so sure that everyone would be so "civilised". New hospital, or big perv prison?

Castrate him the old method.

I'm with timezoner on this one. The research seems to suggest that serial pedophiles (i.e., repeat offenders who think such behavior is "normal") cannot be rehabilitated. In this case, the responsibility of society becomes not to rehabilitate but to protect itself from such people. Thus the very controversial practice in some US states of keeping some previously convicted serial pedophiles institutionalized even after they have served their prison terms. I am inclined to support this if such people who have committed such heinous crimes against defenseless children will in all likelihood continue to do so.

That is the problem with this particular crime. Most people can not separate their emotions from it. Yet, like with any crime, the justice system isn't infallible. Innocent people get convicted just as much as with other crimes. False accusations aren't unheard of, could you really, in good conscience, punish a person that could be innocent in such a brutal and in my opinion sadistic manner?

Is it any less sadistic to enjoy the torture of a person if you think they've commited a heinous crime?

As much as I'd like to see child molestors castrated, I also doubt this would slow them down much.

I have to confess that my normal state of rationality and liberality desert me with regards to this issue. Castration - more like corporal punishment.
Although ER does make the very valid point of false accusations.

Sadly you are probably right. For such people it's not the pleasure of being with someone but the thrill of domination. Even without a penis they could find other sick ways to dominate.

It is easy to put paedo's in the same basket as rapists, who are all about domination, because they both come under "sex crimes". I think, though I could be wrong, I have no idea, that for some kiddie fiddlers, it is not about domination atall, just about being with a child.

True but you can fiddle a child with or without a penis.

On the other hand the purpose of the castration isn't solely to rid the person of his sexual organs but to rid them of the sex hormones that have a large impact on the sex drive of the offender. Obviously there are other factors that determine sex drive but testosterone (produced in the testes) is a major contributor.

It's about being in charge. My step-father started exposing himself to his 3-year-old sister when he was 10. Her father called her a whore because she drew a picture of a penis when she was 11 years old; he wouldn't listen to her explanation of where she'd seen it.

Flash forward to 2001 when I told my mother about being abused. She told my aunt who was totally dazed because, she said, now her whole life made sense. How she always let guys bully and dominate her and she couldn't understand why. That's what grown-up pedophiles get high on, being strong, in charge, in command.

Would be interesting if they ever find a genetic marker for sexual preference, and the ability to manipulate it.

Won't stop the abuse at all, only the physical sexual gratification for the abuser.

The point that has to be understood is that this urge isn't a choice for the abuser. Just like it isn't a choice for me to like women. Every morning when I wake up, I like women, I don't think about it, talk about it most of the time. There is absolutely nothing that can be done that will stop me from appreciating attractive women. Just like no rehab or prison is going to stop a pedophile from looking at and desiring kids.

This is no way an excuse for the actions, it is just an explanation of the preference. Liking kids is ingrained and by itself a condition that is unenviable. The intolerable is acting on this urge with a child too young to know what was going on, much less consent.

There is no answer, except to protect your children as much as possible.

So, should all women learn to protect themselves from dolfan?

Nope, only my wife has to worry about unwanted advances these days..

That was my point. You may desire all the women in the world, but you aren't acting on those desires. You know it would be wrong to do so, etc. A paedophile is acting on those desires.

I have to continually fight the urge to slap birds on the arse and say "alright treacle!" on the escalators at the Ubahn. Not much to do with this thread, but I felt like sharing.

That's a good point. Dolfan has an outlet though, namely his wife.

Is there a safe outlet for a pedophile? And if there is, will it help suppress the urge or will it, in fact, make the urge stronger?

Does a person, let's say for example, a heterosexual man desire women more or less if he's forced to stay away from them completely?

What about things like porn? Is this a safe outlet for sexual desire or does it stimulate the desire more?

To come back to the documentary I was watching( where the pedo says he thinks its normal like Dolfan says for him woman are normal) it was Stern TV I believe .An organization working with the police were inviting pedos to come to them voluntary and under the knowledge that they would not be arrested or in any way put under surveillance by the police ( I wonder how true that is )and take some sort of drugs to control their sexual urges, they had I think around 20 men who had voluntarily come forward ,the program also showed another doctor who deals with those that are caught and put away who thought the whole idea was laughable and 20 men was the very tip of a huge iceberg, the lady from the organization however said ( and rightly so ) 1 less pedo out there is a success I hope they continue with the scheme .and I hope they continue to have success

what on earth would adult porn have to do with anything? Most people do not advertise that they view porn but I would guess that most sexually active men do and a good few women too. Frankly I would find it weird to meet a guy, gay or straight, who had never in his life used porn.

I can't imagine any safe outlet for a paedophile other than a blow up/inflatable doll in prepubescent form.

Timezoner, the study that you are referring to is this one:

I read an article in the Süddeutsche Zeitung once about a pedophile who actively participated in counseling after his conviction. It was sort of like AA, he had a list of people to call when he felt the urge. He told them exactly where he was and what he was feeling, the person on the other end was authorized to call the police if he felt the guy was going to attack a kid.
Very interesting, but how many pedophiles would even admit that they have a problem, much less do anything about it?

Can't wait to see the explanation the TT experts have for this one ...

http://news.scotsman.com/world/Abused-boys...cked.4205747.jp

I have always said that extremist religion is harmful.

How much did they have to pay the actor to have his face in that ad?

Just curious, because now his face will be associated with it, seems like a very risky job to take on.

/off topic.

Judging from the article, Took's photo gallery wasn't confined to children.


You'd think they were weird? If it's such a widespread healthy pastime, I assume you'd have no preference between an adult-porn-user and a non-adult-porn user to look after your kids? In fact, if you think it's weird not to use adult porn, maybe you'd prefer the porn user?

Actually, have "Do not touch" orders from the wife's Doctor at the moment.